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Alessandro Matri (16 Viewers)
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I agree with your Juve sentiment but we simply aren't signing any great players right now, the best we can hope for without CL is someone like Dzeko or Krasic from a smaller team or league and/or who are not in the CL. We haven't really spent much at all, and I don't know how you quantify a flop? Is Toni a flop? Matri? Big money flops so far, maybe Martinez if he can't get fit? The rest have either been good or signed for chump change.
Great players don't sign for mediocre teams, it's not really a chicken and egg argument, we need to reach a certain level first. That's the whole plan, it's stumbling now but if we write it off as a bad job where do we go to next? There is a lot of assumption here that we can bring in the best guru, top coach and top players with a restricted budget and no CL. That's the next step. We fucked up by not replacing Ranieri with that top coach, but that's the past.
Great players don't sign for mediocre teams, it's not really a chicken and egg argument, we need to reach a certain level first. That's the whole plan, it's stumbling now but if we write it off as a bad job where do we go to next? There is a lot of assumption here that we can bring in the best guru, top coach and top players with a restricted budget and no CL. That's the next step. We fucked up by not replacing Ranieri with that top coach, but that's the past.
I never mentioned WC players as the ones who should join us.
We paid 12mln for Martinez, it was a robbery. Well it's also one of the reasons we don't have money. There are much better players available for that amount of money ya know.
But sure, find more excuses. Or try to defend how it's great to use Martinez on the wing where he's not even supposed to play.
We paid 12mln for Martinez, it was a robbery. Well it's also one of the reasons we don't have money. There are much better players available for that amount of money ya know.
But sure, find more excuses. Or try to defend how it's great to use Martinez on the wing where he's not even supposed to play.
No need to mention 10 players but only Martinez will do. It has nothing to do with his fitness, we're simply playing him out of his position while no need to mention how he was never worth 12mln euros.
Look, I'm not bashing Marotta only nor it's my intention to make another drama. When I said flops I didn't mean this summer only, but the ones when we had Secco too. So the flop list is really, really big and it's the main we didn't reach that level you just mentioned. We wasted too much on nothing - that's the bottom line.
Look, I'm not bashing Marotta only nor it's my intention to make another drama. When I said flops I didn't mean this summer only, but the ones when we had Secco too. So the flop list is really, really big and it's the main we didn't reach that level you just mentioned. We wasted too much on nothing - that's the bottom line.
The thing is I don't care about Marotta or Delneri, doesn't bother me if they stay or go in terms of them as individuals, I'm looking for stability and just wonder how much of what we say is realistic and what are we getting right? Results say they are doing a bad job overall, but taking everything into account the task at hand and what they have been faced with it's hardly surprising. I'm trying to picture where we can be a year or 18 months down the line whilst ignoring the knee jerk and dramatic posts.
People are filled with paranoia but also passionate, that results very dramatic posts. You may like it or not, but tons of those posts do have a strong point and are true. People are simply frustrated because it's not like we came back from Serie B yesterday but 5 years ago. People expected results and better - we didn't get any. Time has passed while we have invested over 250mln for signings and we did nada. Our management was/is bad and it's just a fact at this point. Some will always have an excuse, always. It can either be "we don't have enough money" or "we ARE good but we are very unlucky with injuries". Yeah, you will hear those a lot on this board. It's painful to see we're doing same, or even worse, than last year despite all the changes we made.
People are expecting a CL which is yet again from this point simply impossible. Yet again we'll fight for EL and lose tons of money. Why? Because of our board and mislead transfers. There are tons of mistakes we made. We tried to do everything in our power to settle Del Neri and give him everything he wanted, even his formation. Yes, especially at this point, Diego's transfer looks idiotic and yet again it's just a fact. Neither we got Dzeko nor we got enough money for Diego - we only got a discount for Barzagli who's here to be a bench player. If that makes sense to you then ok, because to me it so doesn't, far from it. Yet another year has passed and we have no fullbacks. Why? No it's not money. It's because it's clearly better to invest in random players like Martinez and not use them right. We do have Sorensen, but why use him when we have Grygera who's awful.
Why buy some flop or random player when you can use that money to get some coach that's actually good? We're stuck with mediocre coaches. You see, I could go on and on about it but one fact remains clear - we are an average club at the moment despite the 1/4 billion spent over the last 5 years. If we had a level where we can rely on quality players only to develop our game it would be ok. But we don't have that, no, yet again we're in a position when we'll see "No, we need to buy decent players and create a decent squad so THEN we'll go after quality players". Well, you see, I was one of those who kept saying that. But that was 3 years ago when I said and judging by everything we'll get to hear that again from many fans. Yeah, it is annoying, simply because we're stagnating for over 3 years now.
Does this look like a Juventus to you? To me it doesn't, far from it actually... I'd rather say it's a Sampdoria in their good days, or maybe Fiorentina.
We keep hearing excuses, be that from our staff or players, but we don't get to see results. We spend money but we do even worse. And after all that, we hear random idiots say how some of "us" want Moggi and how we are his fanboys? That's very idiotic because they have no idea what they're saying. Moggi compared to Secco and Marotta is ten times better and that also is a fact, pure fact. But Moggi is a past, I don't really care about him. Yet some say "oooh you are not supporting Marotta and our staff, you're not a Juve fan". That's even more idiotic. But we've been here for a long time and not much changed, we'll always see clowns.
This is not Juventus (and no, it's not Sparta either).
People are expecting a CL which is yet again from this point simply impossible. Yet again we'll fight for EL and lose tons of money. Why? Because of our board and mislead transfers. There are tons of mistakes we made. We tried to do everything in our power to settle Del Neri and give him everything he wanted, even his formation. Yes, especially at this point, Diego's transfer looks idiotic and yet again it's just a fact. Neither we got Dzeko nor we got enough money for Diego - we only got a discount for Barzagli who's here to be a bench player. If that makes sense to you then ok, because to me it so doesn't, far from it. Yet another year has passed and we have no fullbacks. Why? No it's not money. It's because it's clearly better to invest in random players like Martinez and not use them right. We do have Sorensen, but why use him when we have Grygera who's awful.
Why buy some flop or random player when you can use that money to get some coach that's actually good? We're stuck with mediocre coaches. You see, I could go on and on about it but one fact remains clear - we are an average club at the moment despite the 1/4 billion spent over the last 5 years. If we had a level where we can rely on quality players only to develop our game it would be ok. But we don't have that, no, yet again we're in a position when we'll see "No, we need to buy decent players and create a decent squad so THEN we'll go after quality players". Well, you see, I was one of those who kept saying that. But that was 3 years ago when I said and judging by everything we'll get to hear that again from many fans. Yeah, it is annoying, simply because we're stagnating for over 3 years now.
Does this look like a Juventus to you? To me it doesn't, far from it actually... I'd rather say it's a Sampdoria in their good days, or maybe Fiorentina.
We keep hearing excuses, be that from our staff or players, but we don't get to see results. We spend money but we do even worse. And after all that, we hear random idiots say how some of "us" want Moggi and how we are his fanboys? That's very idiotic because they have no idea what they're saying. Moggi compared to Secco and Marotta is ten times better and that also is a fact, pure fact. But Moggi is a past, I don't really care about him. Yet some say "oooh you are not supporting Marotta and our staff, you're not a Juve fan". That's even more idiotic. But we've been here for a long time and not much changed, we'll always see clowns.
This is not Juventus (and no, it's not Sparta either).
How am I finding excuses?
Funny thing is that most people dislike(d) the previous people in charge, even if the results were good (the year in Serie B, first 2 seasons back in Serie A). And what do you know, last season things went wrong, pressure mounted on the owners/board => out with Secco, Gigli, ... & in with the new guys.
And now the new guys can't turn things around immediately. Result: most people dislike the current guys.
The club started panicking near the end of our 2nd season back in Serie A & hasn't stopped panicking since. And mostly because a big part of the fanbase couldn't deal with the fact that we weren't immediate scudetto contendors.
Funny thing is that most people dislike(d) the previous people in charge, even if the results were good (the year in Serie B, first 2 seasons back in Serie A). And what do you know, last season things went wrong, pressure mounted on the owners/board => out with Secco, Gigli, ... & in with the new guys.
And now the new guys can't turn things around immediately. Result: most people dislike the current guys.
The club started panicking near the end of our 2nd season back in Serie A & hasn't stopped panicking since. And mostly because a big part of the fanbase couldn't deal with the fact that we weren't immediate scudetto contendors.
Diego's transfer being idiotic isn't a fact, Diego being talented and unproductive is a fact. I also don't know where the 1/4 billion figure comes from, but I appreciate a lot of what you posted and there are of course a lot of questions that we can't really answer without simply saying "rubbish" or '"not good enough", the output certainly hasn't been, for a number of reasons. It goes back some years and for me the missed opportunity when we sacked Ranieri was a turning point. And whilst there are also excuses (and genuine reasons depending on how you choose to look at it) there are also those who are not prepared to give certain people a chance. I try to be balanced, and often that is putting out fires of melodrama.
One other thing, do you think 6 months is enough to judge where we could possibly head with the current management in charge? Why is 6 months in a bad situation a better indication than 4 months in a good situation, for example?
One other thing, do you think 6 months is enough to judge where we could possibly head with the current management in charge? Why is 6 months in a bad situation a better indication than 4 months in a good situation, for example?
I didn't specifically mean you when I wrote that, just some people. When I say "why didn't we sign some better player instead of 2 mediocre ones" doesn't have to mean "why didn't we sign Torres, Drogba and Ronaldo". Because some DO get my words like that.
It's just a fact that we needed a fullback more and yet we bought Martinez (just an example). Not just any player, but player who's not used in the right position. Can't it be any worse than that? And again, when I say fullback it doesn't have to mean "give me Maicon or Alves".
It's too hard to answer that question as that can only be ones guess and here is mine - Yes, I do believe these 6 months show a lot of work, what's wrong and how we'll never see anything positive when it comes to our boys in the staff. So no, I don't expect miracles to happen and save us.
It depends how you look at things, what do you consider 4 good months? Let's go a bit back and check our transfer campaign. When you look our current position and look back into our transfer you only see it's a bad thing. Why? Well because we're not in a position to get a CL spot, I don't think we have ANY chance left even if there are many rounds ahead of us, yes, I'm well aware of that. Their job was to secure a 4th spot and let's just say they do fail, what happens? We lose at least 30mln euros that would go into our transfer budget and even worse, we're stuck with players like Aquilani, Quag, Pepe, Matri etc. who're yet to be bought.
I assume Del Neri asked for those players in order to fight for a CL spot and he may likely fail. Now some might argue or say how we'll get discounts and stuff but that's just a wild guess. And what happens? In case they do leave and we don't buy them it was a fail signing because we only spend more than 2.5mln on a loan + wasted money on their wages. And if we do buy them then we won't have any money left which leads to yet another painful season with no actual signings and no quality provided. So with basically he same squad we'll be fighting for a CL spot and NO it's not going to be easier, even if we buy 2 players. Why? Well, Germans are taking the 4th spot and of course we'll not be strong enough to be in the top 3. It's like we're going in circles.
Judging by that, I'd say yes, these guys are leading in a bad way with not many positive things at all. Like any other coach, Del Neri will have his excuse - injuries. But this, these mistakes they made, are leading to a long term consequences.
It's just a fact that we needed a fullback more and yet we bought Martinez (just an example). Not just any player, but player who's not used in the right position. Can't it be any worse than that? And again, when I say fullback it doesn't have to mean "give me Maicon or Alves".
It's too hard to answer that question as that can only be ones guess and here is mine - Yes, I do believe these 6 months show a lot of work, what's wrong and how we'll never see anything positive when it comes to our boys in the staff. So no, I don't expect miracles to happen and save us.
It depends how you look at things, what do you consider 4 good months? Let's go a bit back and check our transfer campaign. When you look our current position and look back into our transfer you only see it's a bad thing. Why? Well because we're not in a position to get a CL spot, I don't think we have ANY chance left even if there are many rounds ahead of us, yes, I'm well aware of that. Their job was to secure a 4th spot and let's just say they do fail, what happens? We lose at least 30mln euros that would go into our transfer budget and even worse, we're stuck with players like Aquilani, Quag, Pepe, Matri etc. who're yet to be bought.
I assume Del Neri asked for those players in order to fight for a CL spot and he may likely fail. Now some might argue or say how we'll get discounts and stuff but that's just a wild guess. And what happens? In case they do leave and we don't buy them it was a fail signing because we only spend more than 2.5mln on a loan + wasted money on their wages. And if we do buy them then we won't have any money left which leads to yet another painful season with no actual signings and no quality provided. So with basically he same squad we'll be fighting for a CL spot and NO it's not going to be easier, even if we buy 2 players. Why? Well, Germans are taking the 4th spot and of course we'll not be strong enough to be in the top 3. It's like we're going in circles.
Judging by that, I'd say yes, these guys are leading in a bad way with not many positive things at all. Like any other coach, Del Neri will have his excuse - injuries. But this, these mistakes they made, are leading to a long term consequences.
Why judge now, does the season finish now? Why judge during a bad spell, is that the indication of a transfer campaign? Why is it people only want to judge when we are going through a shitty period that is only partly the fault of people at the club?
So we're not in a CL spot because of our transfer campaign? I would say there were several reasons, some that could not be compensated for. When we had our team complete with summer signings we were in the CL spots, so how is it the players? It's only come down to the players because we have no good depth. We have no good depth because we can't spread our money that thinly. You could swap Martinez - as the only transfer you can possibly categorize as resource-heavy and a failure - for two €5m-€6m players to play fullback for example but that guarantees no quality, no depth, and who would we have played up front when our other 17 forwards were not fit? We would have done the same again, gone into the market for a quick fix, and no good players are coming for anything but a rip off price in January, because no one wants to sell good players half way through the season.
This is what I'm getting at. Of course there aren't positive signs because we aren't doing well, it's like a frenzy which builds up over time and every negative aspect is highlighted and exaggerated. I think Marotta had a very short leash with a lot of people to begin with, totally unreasonably and unrealistically, but it's the realism that seems to be the hardest thing to accept from our current status as a club.
WE ARE JUVENTUS. We'll keep telling ourselves that, as if it means we can have the best without working for it.
So we're not in a CL spot because of our transfer campaign? I would say there were several reasons, some that could not be compensated for. When we had our team complete with summer signings we were in the CL spots, so how is it the players? It's only come down to the players because we have no good depth. We have no good depth because we can't spread our money that thinly. You could swap Martinez - as the only transfer you can possibly categorize as resource-heavy and a failure - for two €5m-€6m players to play fullback for example but that guarantees no quality, no depth, and who would we have played up front when our other 17 forwards were not fit? We would have done the same again, gone into the market for a quick fix, and no good players are coming for anything but a rip off price in January, because no one wants to sell good players half way through the season.
This is what I'm getting at. Of course there aren't positive signs because we aren't doing well, it's like a frenzy which builds up over time and every negative aspect is highlighted and exaggerated. I think Marotta had a very short leash with a lot of people to begin with, totally unreasonably and unrealistically, but it's the realism that seems to be the hardest thing to accept from our current status as a club.
WE ARE JUVENTUS. We'll keep telling ourselves that, as if it means we can have the best without working for it.
