Just look back at mcrae's posts. No doubt he's just a racist, Israeli shill. Zionists are racists by definition anyway, so he should not be taken seriously.
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Able Xavier Converts to Islam (19 Viewers)
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I think that the issues of Muslim intolerance and Facism clothed in Islam are different.
Either way, Muslims (generally speaking) are real touchy about things. If you know that, then just deal with it the best you can. Jews have their issues, as do Christians, Buddhists, and Hindus. In the end, I think Marx was correct in asserting that religion is simply another tool through which capital can be used to control people...
Either way, Muslims (generally speaking) are real touchy about things. If you know that, then just deal with it the best you can. Jews have their issues, as do Christians, Buddhists, and Hindus. In the end, I think Marx was correct in asserting that religion is simply another tool through which capital can be used to control people...
yaaay lets throw confetti i finally found a way to argue with muslims, you people really need hobbies. As for the kaaba, all arabs believed kaaba was built by abraham, a monotheist, as a matter of fact even pre-islamic arabs believe that. Muhammad saw those statues in that holy place as sacrilegious to that creed/line of thinking(think a cross in a temple).
Secondly that argument commits the very elementary mistake of confusing the dogma and some of its practitioners, what are we discussing here? the written or the seldom practiced?
And hoori i find it sad you side your civilized, though ignorant, post with the ramblings of a hateful run of the mill bigot.
Secondly that argument commits the very elementary mistake of confusing the dogma and some of its practitioners, what are we discussing here? the written or the seldom practiced?
And hoori i find it sad you side your civilized, though ignorant, post with the ramblings of a hateful run of the mill bigot.
But even before the conquest Mecca by the Muslims, Kaaba was the place where the Arabs from all around the Arabian peninsula, some of which were Christians, performed the hajj.
Those 360 idols represented many different religions (including Christianity) and when Muhammad destroyed them, he insulted all the Arabs who weren't Muslim. Even if all the Meccans miraculously threw away the religions they practiced all their life and immediately became Muslim (which is impossible, even for people from the 7th century Arabia), it still leaves those who weren't from Mecca, who weren't Muslim, and still went to Mecca for hajj.
If some Christian army today conquers Mecca putting the lives of the Meccans in danger and the people from Mecca decide to convert to Christianity, the Pope leads the way to destroying the Kaaba and build a church over it, would it be ok just because the people of Mecca allowed him to do it?
Btw, the "history lesson" of yours comes from Islamic source(s), without exception.
Those 360 idols represented many different religions (including Christianity) and when Muhammad destroyed them, he insulted all the Arabs who weren't Muslim. Even if all the Meccans miraculously threw away the religions they practiced all their life and immediately became Muslim (which is impossible, even for people from the 7th century Arabia), it still leaves those who weren't from Mecca, who weren't Muslim, and still went to Mecca for hajj.
If some Christian army today conquers Mecca putting the lives of the Meccans in danger and the people from Mecca decide to convert to Christianity, the Pope leads the way to destroying the Kaaba and build a church over it, would it be ok just because the people of Mecca allowed him to do it?
Btw, the "history lesson" of yours comes from Islamic source(s), without exception.
Mecca belonged to the Meccans not to anyone else so what they did was their business. The idols did not represent different religions...they were family totems; animal spirits that payed homage to Allah (the main god). This is actually what non-Muslim research has produced. The Muslims just assumed these people were all just a bunch of pagans and didn't really dwell much on this subject.
I didn't speak of a miraculous conversion. That's just how it worked back then and it still happens wherever tribalism exists. When influential Meccans; people like Abu Sufyan, Khaled ibn al Waleed, and other Quresh converted what do you expect? Besides, what I said about the Meccans belief that Mecca would be protected by God and when that protection never came they saw that as sign.
Most sources you're gonna find are going to be 'Islamic' sources because who else was their to record the events?
I didn't speak of a miraculous conversion. That's just how it worked back then and it still happens wherever tribalism exists. When influential Meccans; people like Abu Sufyan, Khaled ibn al Waleed, and other Quresh converted what do you expect? Besides, what I said about the Meccans belief that Mecca would be protected by God and when that protection never came they saw that as sign.
Most sources you're gonna find are going to be 'Islamic' sources because who else was their to record the events?
I don't like to argue with fools because people can tell who's who from far away. Who gives a Salami what the guy want to believe in. some racist around here are waiting for any chance to attack and start throwing stereotypes. If I wanted to talk about the negativity among other religion I would need years to state what the Jew, and christians did wrong, but that is not the case. There is a bad and good side in each religion but people are blind or dump enough that they usually only see what they want to see or what their peanuts size brain want to know. open up your mind and stop this stupidity of bashing all muslims for the actions of thousands while there are over a billion in the whole world. when you watch the news don't believe everything they tell you because every channel has it's own agenda that wants to deliver. Iranian that I have met here they all bash Islam because they are opressed by their Islamic government so they usually tend to bash the religion, i tell them stop acting out of frustration and focus on the main problem which is your government because i lived in muslim countries (Lebanon, and kuwait) and I was never opressed or treated badly. Religion is not the problem, the main problem is the close minded people who practise a religion and take things out of proportion and manipulate things for their own sick deed to justify treating other people in a wrong way and kill innocent people all over the world.
Muhammad was well aware that people from all Arabia went there for hajj but he disrespected their beliefs by destroying the idols.
Of course, he knew very well that he must do it if he wants to achieve what he achieved, but it still means that he completely disrespected their beliefs. And that's what Hoori was saying when she criticized Rebel for not accepting his beliefs to be criticized.
Yes, when the influential people, usually the nobility and the high priest convert, the others follow them. But when do the influential people or high priests convert?
Abu Sufyan wasn't someone who'd take a "sign of God" like that.
They converted only because they knew what will happen to them, and the people of Mecca, if they don't.
But did they really accept Islam so fast or they only did it in public?
Those like Abu Sufyan who weren't Muslims before the conquest and didn't truly accept Islam after the conquest.
But could they write it down?
No, the victors could do it only and they wrote it as they wished.
You know, it's like the history of Palestine after 1947 being written only by Jews.
Of course, he knew very well that he must do it if he wants to achieve what he achieved, but it still means that he completely disrespected their beliefs. And that's what Hoori was saying when she criticized Rebel for not accepting his beliefs to be criticized.
Yes, when the influential people, usually the nobility and the high priest convert, the others follow them. But when do the influential people or high priests convert?
Abu Sufyan wasn't someone who'd take a "sign of God" like that.
They converted only because they knew what will happen to them, and the people of Mecca, if they don't.
But did they really accept Islam so fast or they only did it in public?
Those like Abu Sufyan who weren't Muslims before the conquest and didn't truly accept Islam after the conquest.
But could they write it down?
No, the victors could do it only and they wrote it as they wished.
You know, it's like the history of Palestine after 1947 being written only by Jews.
They converted to Islam but they didn't remove the idols themselves? They waited until Muhammad came to throw those stones away?
What part of my previous post denies that?
This is a simple question for you: Were all the people whose idols were being kept in Kaaba had converted to Islam? Were all the people of Mecca Muslims at that time? What were all those battles for then? There were some who fought against Muhammad and his followers. Some who were still worshiping their idols but Muhammad did cleanse the Kaaba from all those idols. My post wasn't to judge whether Muhammad insulted those Kafirs or not. It wasn't the point of my post. Someone calls "converting to Islam" backwards and retarded. Muslims here feel insulted. I asked a question from Rebel. How is this an insult when your prophet, Muhammad, did the same to those who were keeping their idols in Kaaba, holding them in holiness, worshiping them?
As a Muslim, you do believe that Abraham was too a messenger from God. Have you heard about his story with the idols where he smashed them all, leaving only the biggest one? It's in fact mentioned in Qoran. Why did he do it? Didn't he know how those idols were holy for his people? Do you call it an insult or you prefer to claim that what Abraham did was wrong?
I didn't say he didn't live in exile for over 10 years.
I didn't say Hinda didn't eat Hamzah's liver.
I didn't say his daughter wasn't pushed off a camel.
I never said a man whose name you forget didn't kill one of Muhammad's relatives.
You probably read only the first two lines of my post and it forced you to go through Muhammad' biography. Had you read some more lines of my previous post, you would have been spare putting forth all those efforts.
I'm not mourning over those broken idols. I just find it ludicrous that Muslims are easily being irritated when someone takes Muhammad's name in vain. They take it as an insult if someone calls their beliefs stupid and retarded. Muhammad too found the whole concept of "idolatry" wrong and credulous. He broke the idols out of Kaaba. Thing is that you'd never take it as an insult to those who were worshiping those cult images because you think Muhammad was right. Just if you start to have an exhaustive look over the matter you'd realize that the Muslims are actually the last who can complain about those who're mocking them.
The sadder thing is vanity. The saddest thing is faking to be someone you are not.
Do you know how is a drum's sound like? It's deep and loud. Its vessel is hollow though. An empty inside with a loud sound. For some reason you always remind me of a drum' construction.
What part of my previous post denies that?
This is a simple question for you: Were all the people whose idols were being kept in Kaaba had converted to Islam? Were all the people of Mecca Muslims at that time? What were all those battles for then? There were some who fought against Muhammad and his followers. Some who were still worshiping their idols but Muhammad did cleanse the Kaaba from all those idols. My post wasn't to judge whether Muhammad insulted those Kafirs or not. It wasn't the point of my post. Someone calls "converting to Islam" backwards and retarded. Muslims here feel insulted. I asked a question from Rebel. How is this an insult when your prophet, Muhammad, did the same to those who were keeping their idols in Kaaba, holding them in holiness, worshiping them?
As a Muslim, you do believe that Abraham was too a messenger from God. Have you heard about his story with the idols where he smashed them all, leaving only the biggest one? It's in fact mentioned in Qoran. Why did he do it? Didn't he know how those idols were holy for his people? Do you call it an insult or you prefer to claim that what Abraham did was wrong?
I didn't say he didn't live in exile for over 10 years.
I didn't say Hinda didn't eat Hamzah's liver.
I didn't say his daughter wasn't pushed off a camel.
I never said a man whose name you forget didn't kill one of Muhammad's relatives.
You probably read only the first two lines of my post and it forced you to go through Muhammad' biography. Had you read some more lines of my previous post, you would have been spare putting forth all those efforts.
I'm not mourning over those broken idols. I just find it ludicrous that Muslims are easily being irritated when someone takes Muhammad's name in vain. They take it as an insult if someone calls their beliefs stupid and retarded. Muhammad too found the whole concept of "idolatry" wrong and credulous. He broke the idols out of Kaaba. Thing is that you'd never take it as an insult to those who were worshiping those cult images because you think Muhammad was right. Just if you start to have an exhaustive look over the matter you'd realize that the Muslims are actually the last who can complain about those who're mocking them.
The sadder thing is vanity. The saddest thing is faking to be someone you are not.
Do you know how is a drum's sound like? It's deep and loud. Its vessel is hollow though. An empty inside with a loud sound. For some reason you always remind me of a drum' construction.
I won't reply to your first paragraphs against Islam because it seems your hatred to it won't make you understand how we think about Islam in specific, and about the religions in general.
Anyway, I would like to understand what you meant in your last two lines above. Why can't I complain?
I didn't say he would be ashamed for being a jewish. I said he would be ashamed for being a jewish who is insulting Islam in the forum, because simply those Zionists are known for their unjustified attack on Islam, and in order to increase his credibility, he tries to appear as unbiased guy instead of being himself, A clueless Zionist.
Anyway, I would like to understand what you meant in your last two lines above. Why can't I complain?
Well, it's not like the Greeks adore the Turks and the Albanians (who are also Muslim) 
And why would he be ashamed if he's a Jew?
And why would he be ashamed if he's a Jew?
No, No slavery in Islam. When Islam came, slavery was all over the Arab peninsula. So, the solution for that was by making gradual steps to finish this phenomenon because simply it was so difficult to call for freeing all the slaves once upon a time.
When some Muslims made some mistakes related to the religion, Islam ordered them to free a slave to be forgiven by God. After afew years, there were no more slaves there.
This verse is about those tribes who allied with Quraysh infidels in Al-Ahzab battle attacking Muslims in Medina. God says it is ok to kill some of them and capture the others because they are the ones that started attacking Muslims. These are not slaves. They were prisoners.
When some Muslims made some mistakes related to the religion, Islam ordered them to free a slave to be forgiven by God. After afew years, there were no more slaves there.
This verse is about those tribes who allied with Quraysh infidels in Al-Ahzab battle attacking Muslims in Medina. God says it is ok to kill some of them and capture the others because they are the ones that started attacking Muslims. These are not slaves. They were prisoners.
Member A called Islam a backward cult and Member B said that Muhammad did exactly what you don't want to be done to you and what member A did.
What you immediately did was to call member A a clueless Zionist and member B an Islam hater in order to downplay their arguments.
Can it be that member A is really Greek and member B doesn't hate Islam at all?
What you immediately did was to call member A a clueless Zionist and member B an Islam hater in order to downplay their arguments.
Can it be that member A is really Greek and member B doesn't hate Islam at all?
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