A second look at Virginia Tech (1 Viewer)

[Bjerknes]

There is no doubt there is bullying in schools and it's wrong. But at the same time it's a part of life. No matter what you do you'll never stop it. Trust me I know, I'm a product of the system. Grade school, Junior high, and parts of high school were hell for me. I mean really bad. I won't say any more because I'm not into "sharing". I'll put it like this, in junior high Burke and Andy would not have been my friends. I never shot anyone. And I don't have any sympathy for those who do.

No, in high school, you would have been my friend.

 

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[swag]

Please read the link I posted, that's the whole reason I started this thread.

Good thread idea. But sorry, Martin, I can't read a document that long without at least getting college credits for it.

 

[Bjerknes]

WORD WORD TO MOTHER!

What?

That doesn't make sense.

It does make sense because it doesn't do anything to deter the root of the problem.

 

[Enron]

People are weak, get it? Tons of them. It's an inborn quality, or a product of their upbringing, who knows. The fact is they come to a place like Virginia Tech and they're weak. And you say fuck them.

So what if only a few may have the predisposition to actually turn to violence, does it eliminate the problem? What about all those who suffer without going postal, is that good?

I never said "fuck them". Bullying is not an excuse to kill people.

Instead of trying to make excuses... Propose a solution to the problem.

 

[Martin]

I said many kids run into trouble at college, the majority of them do not go on to kill people.

I read it. The kid was diagnosed with his condition at 14. He knew if he went to a big school he could run into trouble. And at a big school like Virginia Tech a kid with a social condition is going to have a hard time. He and his parents both knew this.

So you're saying I should feel bad for a kid who knew he had a severe social issue, yet decided to enroll in a school where the likelihood of a professor knowing his name would be very low?

So he entered a 30,000+ student school and found himself invisible, unable to make friends, and unable to talk to anyone about his problems. And we're supposed to feel bad that he shot a bunch of students he didn't even know, that may or may have made fun of him?

No, I'm saying you should feel bad (or at least I do) for him because he was frickin abused by his environment, something you apparently have no problem with. The fact that he shot people just serves to demonstrate the severity of his condition. If he didn't, you might have said "ah, he's just exaggerating, blowing it totally out of proportion". Lots of other people live a milder version of the same story and don't lash out. If there is ANYTHING at all we want to do about preventing this kind of crap (which seems to be spreading btw), then the PROBLEM to address is precisely this environment that's pushing people to do this crap.

There is no doubt there is bullying in schools and it's wrong. But at the same time it's a part of life. No matter what you do you'll never stop it. Trust me I know, I'm a product of the system. Grade school, Junior high, and parts of high school were hell for me. I mean really bad. I won't say any more because I'm not into "sharing". I'll put it like this, in junior high Burke and Andy would not have been my friends. I never shot anyone. And I don't have any sympathy for those who do.

You're stronger, he was weaker. How hard is that to understand? Why are people so pathologically unable to accept the fact that their personal standards are not universal??

 

[Bjerknes]

I never said "fuck them". Bullying is not an excuse to kill people.

Instead of trying to make excuses... Propose a solution to the problem.

So what is the solution?

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

So this "pussy" decides one day he had enough, so he walks around campus with chains and ammo laced across his body, storms into a building despite being out-numbered by some 250 to 1, and goes against the law by blowing peoples brains out.

That takes a lot of balls, must be a hermaphrodite.

That shit is pussy. He couldn't handle it and had to blast some fools and went out like a pussy.

I see, so if he was say your brother you'd be pleased the damn pussy is finally dead.

I'm not Chinese you dumbass.

 

[Martin]

Good thread idea. But sorry, Martin, I can't read a document that long without at least getting college credits for it.

My phd off the net is yours, I paid 10 bucks for it.

 

[Bjerknes]

No, I'm saying you should feel bad (or at least I do) for him because he was frickin abused by his environment, something you apparently have no problem with. The fact that he shot people just serves to demonstrate the severity of his condition. If he didn't, you might have said "ah, he's just exaggerating, blowing it totally out of proportion". Lots of other people live a milder version of the same story and don't lash out. If there is ANYTHING at all we want to do about preventing this kind of crap (which seems to be spreading btw), then the PROBLEM to address is precisely this environment that's pushing people to do this crap.



You're stronger, he was weaker. How hard is that to understand? Why are people so pathologically unable to accept the fact that their personal standards are not universal??

Well said, Martin.

We coders seem to think alike.

 

[Enron]

No, in high school, you would have been my friend.

Not from the stories I've heard. I was just like the kids at Goretti you and Burke talk about messing with. I didn't get "cool" until midway through my Junior year.

And don't get me started with junior high. I was the king of the bloody nose and the puking before gym class.

 

[Martin]

Survival of the fittest, mother fucker.

Stop being a dick and turn on your brain, Burke.

 

[Enron]

So what is the solution?

I don't know. I really don't think there is a way to stop it. Can we really curb the behavior of an entire society? If it's even an entire society that bullies? I don't know I'm not the one making the accusations here.

 

[Bjerknes]

That shit is pussy. He couldn't handle it and had to blast some fools and went out like a pussy.

How is it pussy? The guy went about committing one of the worst school shootings in history.

It DOES take a lot of balls for someone like him to break out of his life of fear and take on the world by the law of the gun.

I'm not glorifying him or anything, but if label everybody who gets bullied a "pussy", well, then we don't solve any problems.

 

[Bjerknes]

Not from the stories I've heard. I was just like the kids at Goretti you and Burke talk about messing with. I didn't get "cool" until midway through my Junior year.

And don't get me started with junior high. I was the king of the bloody nose and the puking before gym class.

I wasn't at all popular in high school.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

No, in high school, you would have been my friend.

Yea, Eazy, what's the deal man, I would have rolled with you. Soccer team rolls together.

But yea, parts of Middle School were hard for me too.

Well said, Martin.

We coders seem to think alike.

Yea, like fuckin' computers and less like humans.

010010101001010010101
101001010100101100101
111001000111101000010
010101001000101111010
101001001010101011101
101010101010100101011
010101101001010100001
101001010101010101010
000101010010101010102

OHH SHIT TIME TO SHOOT PEOPLE!

 

[Lilith]

I don't think you understand, Risa. We are not defending murder, but rather trying to understand what pushes people to limits.

If we can figure this out, perhaps we could save lives in the future.

Different people are different, we could spend a lifetime and never figure that one out. In his case, I think it could have been prevented if HE did something about. He knew about his disorder for years. He should have taken steps to prevent what happened. As I said earlier communication is not verbal alone. There were a multitude of different ways in which he could have gotten help. Bullies sometimes bully for a reason too, so I can also start defending them...

I said many kids run into trouble at college, the majority of them do not go on to kill people.

I read it. The kid was diagnosed with his condition at 14. He knew if he went to a big school he could run into trouble. And at a big school like Virginia Tech a kid with a social condition is going to have a hard time. He and his parents both knew this.

So you're saying I should feel bad for a kid who knew he had a severe social issue, yet decided to enroll in a school where the likelihood of a professor knowing his name would be very low?

So he entered a 30,000+ student school and found himself invisible, unable to make friends, and unable to talk to anyone about his problems. And we're supposed to feel bad that he shot a bunch of students he didn't even know, that may or may have made fun of him? Because it's really debatable about how many of the kids he killed actually knew who he was.

There is no doubt there is bullying in schools and it's wrong. But at the same time it's a part of life. No matter what you do you'll never stop it. Trust me I know, I'm a product of the system. Grade school, Junior high, and parts of high school were hell for me. I mean really bad. I won't say any more because I'm not into "sharing". I'll put it like this, in junior high Burke and Andy would not have been my friends. I never shot anyone. And I don't have any sympathy for those who do.

You said everything that I was thinking which is great because I have to run because I have a paper to write!

 

[Bjerknes]

I don't know. I really don't think there is a way to stop it. Can we really curb the behavior of an entire society? If it's even an entire society that bullies? I don't know I'm not the one making the accusations here.

So you do admit it's a problem with society then?

 

[swag]

No, I'm saying you should feel bad (or at least I do) for him because he was frickin abused by his environment, something you apparently have no problem with.

Abuse is a spectrum. You condone the abuse put upon him, it's a thin line before you're condoning the "abuse" he put out by gunning down classmates.

But we can't legislate people not being buttholes. We can try to raise people not to be in our families, but being a butthole is part of the fabric of human history. I think the best we can do is to show a little sympathy for the sinner but condemn the sin -- and the sinner with it as necessary. There are some lines that can't be crossed as acceptable in society.

So what is the solution?

As if there is one...

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

Stop being a dick and turn on your brain, Burke.

Man's game, bitch!

How is it pussy? The guy went about committing one of the worst school shootings in history.

It DOES take a lot of balls for someone like him to break out of his life of fear and take on the world by the law of the gun.

I'm not glorifying him or anything, but if label everybody who gets bullied a "pussy", well, then we don't solve any problems.

Not everyone who gets bullied is a pussy. The way you deal with it is pussy or not.

I wasn't at all popular in high school.

Yea, but I don't recall anyone fucking with you.

 

[Bjerknes]

Different people are different, we could spend a lifetime and never figure that one one out. In his case, I think it could have been prevented if HE did something about. He knew about his disorder for year. He should have taken steps to prevent what happened. As I said earlier communication is not verbal alone. There were a multitude of different ways in which he could have gotten help. Bullies sometimes bully for a reason too, so I can also start defending them...



You said everything that I was thinking which is great because I have to run because I have a paper to write!

What the FUCK is he going to do about it?

This is insane.

His peers were tormenting him, his professors were ridiculing him... I mean who the FUCK is he going to ask for help?

Psychologists? So he's a psycho?

His parents? They didn't give a fuck.

His pet? What, you want him to talk with animals all day?

I just find this line of thinking completely absurd, and it misses the point along with spurring on more events such as this.