Xabi Alonso (44 Viewers)

[Bjerknes]

I appreciate the time and effort you took to answer my question; though thorough and accurate to some extent, It really fails to tie the player value to a dollar/euro mark but for one instance- the comparaison with sissoko. The only way to figure that element out, which you touched on, is precedence. Regardless of team impact a player's monetary worth(price) as any other commodity is strictly dictated by supply and demand and comparative prior sales. Now if what we re talking about is our budget and ability or inability to pay a certain amount for player X has no bearing on his worth, as if that worth is true to the market someone else will get him.

Love your commodities/futures take on the situation.

 

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[v1rtu4l]

The only way to figure that element out, which you touched on, is precedence.

would you agree that there are other weak spots our squad needs to fix?

i really don't see it as a weak spot, that our central midfield is not that creative ... so ok, it is not creative ... but it is not the like as if we had mediocre players just without any creativity ... no, we got players that are not creative, BUT have their skills in tackling and defensive duties ... so it is a fact that the CMs are not creative ... but on the other hand you could say ... a midfield of ronaldinho and deco was a weak spot, because the would not be sufficent defensively ...

it is also true, that our centre backs wont score a freekick in their lifes (if u want to compare them to chivu from milan for instance), that does not have to mean, that this is really a weak spot ...

if we did not have zanetti, and would switch from nocerino-sissoko to alonso-sissoko i would strongly recommend this signing, but as far is a have seen alonso, he is just a zanetti with better long balls ... (where you got the have in mind, that now and then zanetti is also able to pull of nice long balls into the attack). so it would be a change from a player playing "above average" long balls to a player that plays "good" long balls ... but defensively i don't know if zanetti is perhaps a bit stronger

Now if what we re talking about is our budget and ability or inability to pay a certain amount for player X has no bearing on his worth, as if that worth is true to the market someone else will get him.

There will always be someone who is willing to spend more money on a player or at least be able to spend more than us ... that should not make us throw our money out of the window for team changes, that wont result in a big quality leap

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Love your commodities/futures take on the situation.

oh that was just baby econ stuff i didnt even get to game theory lol

 

[GordoDeCentral]

would you agree that there are other weak spots our squad needs to fix?

i really don't see it as a weak spot, that our central midfield is not that creative ... so ok, it is not creative ... but it is not the like as if we had mediocre players just without any creativity ... no, we got players that are not creative, BUT have their skills in tackling and defensive duties ... so it is a fact that the CMs are not creative ... but on the other hand you could say ... a midfield of ronaldinho and deco was a weak spot, because the would not be sufficent defensively ...

it is also true, that our centre backs wont score a freekick in their lifes (if u want to compare them to chivu from milan for instance), that does not have to mean, that this is really a weak spot ...

if we did not have zanetti, and would switch from nocerino-sissoko to alonso-sissoko i would strongly recommend this signing, but as far is a have seen alonso, he is just a zanetti with better long balls ... (where you got the have in mind, that now and then zanetti is also able to pull of nice long balls into the attack). so it would be a change from a player playing "above average" long balls to a player that plays "good" long balls ... but defensively i don't know if zanetti is perhaps a bit stronger



There will always be someone who is willing to spend more money on a player or at least be able to spend more than us ... that should not make us throw our money out of the window for team changes, that wont result in a big quality leap

just remember this isnt grocery shopping, best case example: Buffon

 

[C4ISR]

Liverpool know they wont get £19m. £14-15m at the max, otherwise we should try for other player's.

Our management are cheap, and there is no way they will ever pay £19m. Although £14-15m is also a significant amount, it will be raised through player sales. Amauri, and possibly the other half of De Ceglie, will be the only money being put forward by the club, so around £13m. I'm all for sustainability, but even Fioretina have spent more than that.

 

[v1rtu4l]

So, in your reasoning, name us a player you think would fit each and every criterion we're looking for in a partner for Sissoko. And not just any partner; someone who can pass the ball because that is what we need more than anyone else right now.

Who is it? Who fits the bill? If Xabi is too expensive, supposedly not need by Liverpool, not capable of producing much statistics-wise, and overrated, which player should we look for then?

why are you so adamant about signing a CM ?

do you really think bringing in alonso (for zanettis position) would result in a bigger quality leap, than e.g. bringing in vargas for molinaro ?(who, by the way would be at least 5 Million Euro cheaper and also younger than alonso)

i must say that i do not like christiano ronaldo and i do not dislike molinaro ... but i will hear you swear, when we meet Man United in the CL and Ronaldo will score 5 Goals over Molinaros side, because he will get fucked up by any decend technical and speedy winger on internation level ... i really don't think xabi alonso will score so many long shot goals or make so many assists, as molinaro could cost as goals on the international level ...

i have to agree, that if you are forced to buy a central midfielder that also has a defensive side you would probably do good signing alonso ...

 

[cyril]

my reasoning is following:

20 million euro is very much money

to justify a transfer fee that high i player would have to have following attributes:

- increase the quality of the team he joins significantly

- is likely to enhance the way the team plays

- is likely to change the game into something countable (goals or assists)

- is still a keyplayer in his current club

- is regarded as "star" in his league (not the star, but at least one of the top ten players of the league)

as far as my evaluation goes alonso has following attributes:

- does not increase the first eleven as much as vargas would (just as an example) if we bought him for molinaro. i just want to point out, that our central midfield is not really a weak spot ... zanetti and sissoko would perhaps be just 10% to 15% less efficient

- is he gonna enhance our game ? there were games, we just tried the long ball from defence into the attack ... if we did this again, we would not need a midfielder, because he just would watch the ball fly over his head again and again ... are we going to play long balls (that seems to be xabis speciality) from the midfield into the front/attack ? i don't think so ... for this type of play we would need really fast attackers which he just don't have (we wont bring iaquinta in, just to play long balls)! so basically alonso will have to play short balls the most ... and in this technique he is probable no better then camoranesi or even zanetti. remember that the teams we struggled against were the ones that sat in their own box with 9 players ... how is someone who plays long balls going be our saviour in these situations ... it is the easiest thing for defenders to just head away those long balls

- is he going to bring something you can count ... goals or assists ? i really don't think so ... perhaps 3 assists and a goal per season would not satisfy this high price imo. in the last 3 years xabi played over 80 games, scoring 9 goals, assisting 1 goal and scoring one own goal ... does not read as if we can expect anything countable from him ... perhaps our play would look more beautiful, but i do not think we will score more goals with him, than if zanetti played on that position ... remember the two great assists zanetti gave to del piero ... so obviously if needed (when on the counter attack) we got people that have sufficent skills to play those balls ... but this skill is not that often needed because the teams we struggle against, wont run into a counter attack

- i do not know if xabi is still a key player in liverpool, but if he was they would not think about selling him. who plays in his position mascherano ? if xabi was not that valuable that a almost only defensively minded player can take his place ... than how much were this beautiful passes from alonso appreciated ? i guess they did not bring much in liverpool either

- i guess nobody would call alonsos name, if asked about the 10 best players in the premier league ...


don't get me wrong ... i like the idea of signing him, but i think a price tag of 10 to 15 million euro would be more sensible ...

i rate alonso as high as sissoko ... so what alonso does not have defensively he got playing his long balls

you just compared alonso to tiagos current juve spell, I really dont see any logic in youre post.

Alonso is one of the most reliable mids in the world, we cant get aquilani and we cant get vdv nor diego, alonso will improve are mid not only technically but also statistically, he was exellent with pool when they won the Cl.

The EPL has an array of talent in every position on the field, asking whos the best player in EPL will mostly figure the goalscorers, however im sure if there was a poll for the best 10 mids in england alonso would be included.

 

[JCK]

So, in your reasoning, name us a player you think would fit each and every criterion we're looking for in a partner for Sissoko. And not just any partner; someone who can pass the ball because that is what we need more than anyone else right now.

Who is it? Who fits the bill? If Xabi is too expensive, supposedly not need by Liverpool, not capable of producing much statistics-wise, and overrated, which player should we look for then?

Matteo Paro, after all he's better than Fabregas.

 

[Bozi]

You sure?He was born in France

Edit : Ok sorry.I thought Basque only covered Spain.It covers southern France too.

robert pires,bixente lizarazu and manu petit are all basque born player as well

 

[Enron]

So, in your reasoning, name us a player you think would fit each and every criterion we're looking for in a partner for Sissoko. And not just any partner; someone who can pass the ball because that is what we need more than anyone else right now.

Who is it? Who fits the bill? If Xabi is too expensive, supposedly not need by Liverpool, not capable of producing much statistics-wise, and overrated, which player should we look for then?

I don't care either way if Juventus get Xabi Alonso. Pool are probably asking for too much, but so does everyone else. Sure he will help out our transfers this summer, but I'd rather have him then Barry.

What annoys me is these fans that make off the wall valuations of players they admittedly know nothing about. As if an out and out attacking left back will make more of a difference than a solid CM. He doesn't even know Alonso's status at Liverpool. I think it is quite obvious the guy doesn't really have a good enough idea of Xabi's capabilities to make such an assessment.

But really you guys should go ahead and by a LB because there is sooo much quality out there right now. Like 20 million euros worth of quality. You know the kind that make your stats go up and win you Scudettos and CLs. Take your pick Bridge, Riise, Vargas, and Dossena all offer a trip to the next level. :melayyanandmessi:

 

[v1rtu4l]

you just compared alonso to tiagos current juve spell, I really dont see any logic in youre post.

that was not by intend ... but btw... i bet you would have said similar about tiago, before we signed him

Alonso is one of the most reliable mids in the world, we cant get aquilani and we cant get vdv nor diego, alonso will improve are mid not only technically but also statistically, he was exellent with pool when they won the Cl.

so, are you going to explain me, how xabi will help us next season ... i mean, in the games we struggled ... will his long balls aim for the last metre of space there is between the 8 defenders and the goal post in such games against small teams ? perhaps there is some special move xabi knows, that will generate us goals en masse against those teams ... if not, i don't know why we need him, because in the other games (when the opponent also tried to play football) we lost or drew because we conceded to many goals ... (perhaps the defense got a weak spot ... aaaaaw ... just a small hint)

The EPL has an array of talent in every position on the field, asking whos the best player in EPL will mostly figure the goalscorers, however im sure if there was a poll for the best 10 mids in england alonso would be included.

i agree, that the simple minded beer drunk fan, would tell you the names of some strikers, but if we count just the central midfielders in england ...

there is probably space for 8 good midfielders in the top 4 teams from england ... will he be counted to the best 8 ? i don't think so, because gerrard and mascherano seem to be in front of him and the other players from the big teams are obviously also ahead of him ... so what rank would he get on that toplist ?

rank 9 ? that would be the rank of a CM starter of the fifth placed team in england ... is that the level we should aim for ?

i don't blame him for being behind gerrard in the pecking order ... but mascherano ? a player who does not really offer much going forward ... that leads to one possible explanations ...

1 - alonso is weak on the defensive part, so his beautiful passes can not make up for the defensive insufficience

but yes ... you all are right ... we need more attacking power ... because we did not have the best to strikers in serie a with a midfield that will be stronger on the creative side due to giovinco ...

i guess i saw another serie a than all of you and in your serie a, juve gained the third place, because we had a great defense that always held the clean sheet ...

 

[Mafia]

Xabi Alonso ftw. Simple as that, he is a class act.

 

[v1rtu4l]

if you got a good player on a position you certainly should buy a even better player ... fuck the other positions ... who needs them ?

it's like having sebastian frey as goal keeper and wanting to buy buffon ...

i don't think fiorentina would consider buying another goalkeeper ... but you guys know better ... and probably molinaro will be the next thing and wont suck in CL ...

 

[Roman]

V1rtu4l,

What is the whole freakness about?!?!!

we WILL go after a new LB.relax.we're only at MAY!we have 3 months of mercato ahead of us!

as for now,we go after Xabi Alonso,ans this is his thread.

Have a good time.

 

[Boksic]

oh that was just baby econ stuff i didnt even get to game theory lol

Oh Game Theory now you are talking :toast:

Can't beat a bit of economic theory!!

 

[Fred]

With camo nedved(gio) sissoko and alonso, i think our midfield is one of the best in europe.

This would be really great.

taking it a bit too far?

He was a good squad player in Chelsea, that Mourinho would say it was mistake would pertain to him seeing him as a useful squad player (the unsung type who coaches like). He was benched by superior players like Essien, Lampard etc.

So YEAH, I watched EPL regularly then, and he was fringe player there, and he didnt impress to any degree except do his simple and useful part.

Feel free to specify how I am wrong in his special impact with Chelsea, or with Lyon, in which he was a better starter atleast. Its useless to say you dont want to go into the debate, when you exactly do that and call me biased to boot.

He wasnt just a squad player for Chelsea, he had a very good season for them, he's a good all round player who didnt make it at Juve imo.

You say he was benched by superior players like Essien? Thats true, but then again who wouldnt be benched by a player like Essien?

 

[Ahmed]

taking it a bit too far?

those 4 sound pretty good to me...no real weakness there

 

[Fred]

The best in Europe??

 

[Red]

He's confusing this with the 'Lets Overrate Our Players' thread.

 

[Fred]

I thought that was happening in all threads?