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Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,913
did I complain about what you said...I think I was actually defending you, even if I disagree with your statements

and Andy, no matter what your opinion of Noam Chomsky is, I have no problem with labelling this guy as an anti-American flaming fucking communist
He seems to be socialist to me, but that hardly makes him Stalinist. But then communist = anti-American right, so no point clarifying the issue.
 

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Zé Tahir

JhoolayLaaaal!
Moderator
Dec 10, 2004
29,281
Yes, of course. How could i have been so ignorant until now, listening to what the Ancient Greeks and the Romans had to say. What the Byzanthine authors or the Turkish authors said about this. Illyrii proprie dicti and Illyrii vulgo dicti. I was so stupid to see a difference between these two , when in reality they are the same. I should have known better and learn from you and from Albanian elementary school teachers.

And in your Great Albania map you forgot to add Beijing, Tokyo and New York, or as they should be known by their Albanian names : Beijinga, Tokye and New Yorka.

Forgive me for being an ignoramus until now. Now i know a lot more thanks to you.

I owe you one, mr. Herodotus-Kosova
:lol2:
 
OP
The Arif

The Arif

Senior Member
Jan 31, 2004
12,564
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #663
    That article that joe5 posted, it's a complete nonsense IMO.

    With the coming of the Arabs, they converted the Old Albanians (from Caucasus) in the 8th century to Islam.
    This is a joke right? Albanians were christians until the 13th century, when Ottomans (Turks) came to Balkans and invaded Albania. They tried to spread the Islamism around those parts, and they succedeed in a way because most of Albanians are Muslims now.

    Maniakos brought Albanian mercenaries from Sicily to fight the Serbs and they settled in two waves in modern day Albania, first the mercenaries came, and then came the women and children. After the defeat of Maniakos, the Byzantines would not let the Albanians return, thus the Albanians requested that the Serbs let them stay on the land.
    :lol2: First we were brought from Sicily to fight with serbs and then we asked serbs to stay on that land? LOL.


    One of the GREATEST PROOFS that Albanians do come from the Caucasus and that THEY ARE NOT the descendants of the Ancient Illyrians is the Turkish name for the Albanians. "Arnauti", which means "those who have not returned" in Arabic, for the Turks were aware of the origins of the Albanians. And they truly did not return, they stayed in Serbian and Byzantine lands.

    One of the greatest proofs that we're not descendants of the Illyrians is the Turkish name for us? I don't have much to say, but read the first of my previous post.
     

    Alen

    Ѕenior Аdmin
    Apr 2, 2007
    53,963
    the same way everyone of my generation's parents were communists ;)
    Aha, thanks. The same as it was up here in Croatia.

    I asked you because ( i asume) you come from a muslim family and i don't see very often an atheist with muslim roots. So i thought if the cause of your atheism was maybe communism, since we know the communist view on religion.
    Science made an atheist out of me also, but i know few fellow atheists of mine who became atheists because of comrade Karl Marx :p
     
    Jan 7, 2004
    29,704
    well, it was communism who broke the chain between my highly religious grandfather and my non-religious parents and i do happen to agree with marx's views on religion.

    i like to call my political affiliation as pessimist communism, if you know what i mean
     
    Jan 7, 2004
    29,704
    well, we all so how bad communism turned out to be. my pessimism is directed towards the inability of humankind to turn such good ideas into reality and the little hope for such to happen in the future. it's a little childish, but it goes well with my general mood
     

    Martin

    Senior Member
    Dec 31, 2000
    56,913
    well, we all so how bad communism turned out to be. my pessimism is directed towards the inability of humankind to turn such good ideas into reality and the little hope for such to happen in the future. it's a little childish, but it goes well with my general mood
    I'm still not quite clear on this. Your political inkling is "well this would be nice but it will never happen"? Isn't that one of those views we just discard for lack of realistic prospects? Like "we don't need any laws, people are basically good".
     

    Alen

    Ѕenior Аdmin
    Apr 2, 2007
    53,963
    well, we all so how bad communism turned out to be. my pessimism is directed towards the inability of humankind to turn such good ideas into reality and the little hope for such to happen in the future. it's a little childish, but it goes well with my general mood
    Didn't most of these good ideas come from socialism ? If so, doesn't that make you simply a socialist ? :p
     

    Bjerknes

    "Top Economist"
    Mar 16, 2004
    116,112
    I do support our soccer team...plus I am a baseball fan (America's pasttime)...actually I am a Yankees fan to be precise, and am a disheartened Bills fan, so yes, I do like our sports

    I have no issues with the way we handle terrorism, in fact, maybe we arent tough enough. So many democrats are against us using torture to get info out of terror suspects...maybe we should just put them up at the Hilton in the penthouse, and maybe they'll gladly talk to us :rolleyes:
    Yeah, maybe we should be more tough on terrorism. Hell, lets just blow up half of the Middle East, an effective way to hamper those evil Arabs.

    Torture? So I assume you think water-boarding isn't torture. You would, wouldn't you. In case you don't remember, torture is forbidden by the Geneva Convention. But I'm sure you don't care anyway, just like our government. We have been breaking rules and ethics for years now, so yeah, lets start sawing Arab's teeth off.


    I dont know how many times I've said I'm neutral when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian issue. I think I've said on a number of occasions that they should share the land. I have a few Palestinian friends that I play soccer with, and I have a few other friends who are retired from the IDF (Israeli Defense Force), and I understand both arguments, but remain neutral on the issue
    You aren't neutral on this issue. If you were, you would fault our government for our stance and actions in the region and wouldn't label Noam Chomsky a retard.


    Do you think us being in Iraq has helped the innocent Iraqi's who want to live freely, and prosper...or are you speaking of Al Queda in Iraq or Al Sadr's army ??
    :lol2:

    Yeah, Iraq is so much better today. I'm sure they all love our freedom efforts in spite of the fact we single-handedly killed thousands of civilians while ushering in all sorts of terrorist organizations.



    again, I dont agree with everything, like you say.....whether you like it or not, we are fighting a global war against terrorism, and sometimes things need to be done to keep us safe...
    Like invading a country for oil while saying Iraq has weapons of mass destruction? Come on here. Our government used 9/11 to finish up the job Georgie's dumbfuck father couldn't finish in the 90's while lying to the American people in the process. They continue to lie and fool people like yourself.


    and Chomsky has the opposite view, which you agree with. I have a different opinion, so that makes me unreasonable ?? Thats pretty weak
    :lol2: Say... what?

    You're the one who labeled Chomsky a retard because his view doesn't converge with yours. Yes, that does make you entirely unreasonable. I'm sorry for that fact.



    he's one of those people who believes that Israel shouldnt exist (which is bizarre for a Jew)....again the solution should be to share the land.
    It shouldn't exist.


    no excuse for stating that our govenment was behind 9/11....
    There isn't any evidence that proves the government had no part in it. After all these lies we continue to see come out from under the woodwork, who knows what else we'll hear.


    not all corporations are like Halliburton.....most keep families working, and offer lifelong careers. Without big corporations we lose jobs, our economy suffers, and no one is happy
    Many are like Halliburton though. Ask people in Detroit what they think of our great automobile makers. And we can thank Regan for the crisis there.
     

    swag

    L'autista
    Administrator
    Sep 23, 2003
    84,768
    Corporations are rife with abuses. But at the same time, they're an easy target. People will shit in someone's backyard and won't think twice. But when a big, bad, faceless corporation dumps something, it's moral outrage with no connection of personal actions.

    One of the alarming trends I see right now that I really hate is the whole bullshit corporate responsibility movement. Not that I want to defend corporations, I just don't want to cover for governments for failing to do their jobs. Business needs to be in the business of, well, business. And that means trying to create and do crap so people can have reasonable jobs to do it, society can progress, etc. It's not a noble cause, it's a necessary one.

    The problem with all these corporate responsibility wanks is that they want everyone in business to effectively run side charities, and none of them recognize the inherent and necessary social good achieved by a business trying to achieve business ends. So corporations are now trying to dance around and tell us how green they are, and how they take care of their employees or people in the third world, or whatnot. That's either the job of charitable giving or proper government regulation and enforcement -- or both.

    If part of the mission of business becomes social welfare, who the hell is minding the store? We'll all end up flinging our feces at walls in our caves, but we'll feel good about how our choice of a now bankrupt phone company helped the blind. And as an investor, I laugh at all these ridiculous "socially responsible" stocks and mutual funds. How lazy do you have to be to have to turn to some corporation to do your own charitable giving for you? Or to take care of your lack of government action for you when you don't even vote?

    Businesses, for efficiency, should basically be in the business of making the maximum profit within the legal rules and regulations set by government -- whether social, environmental, whatever. Then the extra money from all those efficiencies can be voluntarily contributed into whatever additional social or environmental programs of your choice. Having companies try to run a profit business and then give back through the back door is putting the mission on them to do two different things, and consumers should get off their asses and have the freedom, and discipline, to choose how they spend those charitable dollars.

    "Buy our product and we'll donate $5 to breast cancer." WTF? How about give me a product $5 cheaper and I give whatever money I want from what's left over in the best way possible?
     
    Jan 7, 2004
    29,704
    I'm still not quite clear on this. Your political inkling is "well this would be nice but it will never happen"? Isn't that one of those views we just discard for lack of realistic prospects? Like "we don't need any laws, people are basically good".
    let me shed a bit more light on this. if i am not mistaken, it was marx who coined the idea of having "workers control the means of production". i think that idea is great, but the communists kinda ruined it and ensured that it would never materialize, at least in north america. Now, i am a little sour on this idea, because my application for an "internship" to one of these employee-owned companies got rejected.

    Didn't most of these good ideas come from socialism ? If so, doesn't that make you simply a socialist ? :p
    that would be correct. but the canada has such a sorry excuse for a socialist party, that i'd rather not be affiliated with them. fuck even their leader looks like stalin.

     

    Enron

    Tickle Me
    Moderator
    Oct 11, 2005
    75,663
    Corporations are rife with abuses. But at the same time, they're an easy target. People will shit in someone's backyard and won't think twice. But when a big, bad, faceless corporation dumps something, it's moral outrage with no connection of personal actions.

    One of the alarming trends I see right now that I really hate is the whole bullshit corporate responsibility movement. Not that I want to defend corporations, I just don't want to cover for governments for failing to do their jobs. Business needs to be in the business of, well, business. And that means trying to create and do crap so people can have reasonable jobs to do it, society can progress, etc. It's not a noble cause, it's a necessary one.

    The problem with all these corporate responsibility wanks is that they want everyone in business to effectively run side charities, and none of them recognize the inherent and necessary social good achieved by a business trying to achieve business ends. So corporations are now trying to dance around and tell us how green they are, and how they take care of their employees or people in the third world, or whatnot. That's either the job of charitable giving or proper government regulation and enforcement -- or both.

    If part of the mission of business becomes social welfare, who the hell is minding the store? We'll all end up flinging our feces at walls in our caves, but we'll feel good about how our choice of a now bankrupt phone company helped the blind. And as an investor, I laugh at all these ridiculous "socially responsible" stocks and mutual funds. How lazy do you have to be to have to turn to some corporation to do your own charitable giving for you? Or to take care of your lack of government action for you when you don't even vote?

    Businesses, for efficiency, should basically be in the business of making the maximum profit within the legal rules and regulations set by government -- whether social, environmental, whatever. Then the extra money from all those efficiencies can be voluntarily contributed into whatever additional social or environmental programs of your choice. Having companies try to run a profit business and then give back through the back door is putting the mission on them to do two different things, and consumers should get off their asses and have the freedom, and discipline, to choose how they spend those charitable dollars.

    "Buy our product and we'll donate $5 to breast cancer." WTF? How about give me a product $5 cheaper and I give whatever money I want from what's left over in the best way possible?
    Definitely Greggor. Great post. The notion that people would ask business to regulate itself is absurd. That is the responsibility of the government. When businesses take thousands of jobs overseas to get cheaper wages and higher profits, should we blame the businesses for acting like businesses? No. I tend to blame the government for not making the businesses want to keep jobs in the US. The same thing can be said about pollution. It's the government's job to make businesses no want to pollute, through incentives, tax cuts or whatever.
     

    Enron

    Tickle Me
    Moderator
    Oct 11, 2005
    75,663
    so what is your idea of government action? regulations or tax breaks?
    Whatever works best. They are basically the same thing, either you pay less for complying or you pay more for not complying. That said, I don't mind the idea of corporations getting tax breaks if they keep jobs in the country or pollute less.
     

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