World's newest state (18 Viewers)

Kosta

The Eccentric
Jul 16, 2006
5,775
Okay.. I just wanted to tell you how the Albanian people live there.. How they feel about everything.. They are without a doubt happier then they where 10 years ago, but it can still improve..
Yes they are. If I'm to be on their place I would be also.
When you enter in any major city in the western Macedonia it's like you've entered in whole other different country, there is nothing that indicates that you are still in Macedonia.
Albanian flags waving everywhere, all the road signs, store names , street names even the menus in the restaurants are on Albanian... you feel like you're in the Twilight zone.
But hell yes , quoting you: it can still improve. Until it becomes populates 100% with Albanians ,who will then claim that they were there since the beginning of the world and rightfully that territory belongs exclusively to them.

But wait,
why dont people realize that violence doesnt solve anything?

Yeah.. But im sure he dosent live in Tetova.. That the place im talking about.. Not the whole Macedonia...
This issues are big concern for all the people that live here, when the laws are changed to suit your needs it affects all. So don't be so one minded about this when you are not here and you haven't felt in what kind of surroundings we live here.
 

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L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,768
It's not that, it's just incredibly funny :lol:
Crap. I see moron high school kids doing exactly that on Telegraph Ave. in Berkeley because they're bored, they hear some political protest is going down on campus, and they drive their dad's mini-van over from the suburbs to bust windows and steal property under the guise of joining some political protest.

I see absolutely nothing funny about that. :lazy:
 

Vinman

2013 Prediction Cup Champ
Jul 16, 2002
11,482
I don't find it as a weak argument. If you're going to be so passionate about your nation as to blindly defend every act it commits around the world, the logical thing to do would also be support your nation when it comes to sports. It's almost as if you only act as a nationalist when it comes to views on terrorism and foreign policy, the latter you never tend to criticize. Why is that, Vinni?
I do support our soccer team...plus I am a baseball fan (America's pasttime)...actually I am a Yankees fan to be precise, and am a disheartened Bills fan, so yes, I do like our sports

I have no issues with the way we handle terrorism, in fact, maybe we arent tough enough. So many democrats are against us using torture to get info out of terror suspects...maybe we should just put them up at the Hilton in the penthouse, and maybe they'll gladly talk to us :rolleyes:




I'm not talking about keeping an open mind towards other people in your life. What I am discussing here is keeping an open mind when it comes to the FOREIGN POLICY of the United States, something you seemingly defend without reason every single time something such as this works its way into the forum. You have defended the Iraq war wholeheartedly even through this day, defend the way we blatantly disregard Palestine and support Israel wholeheartedly, do not acknowledge the fact that the our country only acts when it wants to (usually only when it benefits us), and consider our government correct in pretty much every foreign policy plan we've had in the past 8 years. Why is that? Why defend all this shit when it's wrong? Why don't you realize that what we have done in all sorts of nations has been wrong?
I dont know how many times I've said I'm neutral when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian issue. I think I've said on a number of occasions that they should share the land. I have a few Palestinian friends that I play soccer with, and I have a few other friends who are retired from the IDF (Israeli Defense Force), and I understand both arguments, but remain neutral on the issue

We should just mind our business on all fronts, and limit our military to finding Bin Laden in Pakistan, and wiping out as much Al Queda as possible. Does that include Iraq...well, they are there now, and thats what we are doing (I wonder what happens if Obama does get elected, and we leave the region)

Why do you think so many people around the world hate us, Vinni? Is it because we're "THE BEST !!"? Are all these people "jealous" of us? Perhaps a few people are "jealous," but most of the people around the world who hate us have damn good reasons. We probably have fucked them over in shape or form. From Palestine to Serbia, Iraq to Africa, we have taken measures that have destroyed people's lives for our own gain. We have bases in what, 60 different countries across the globe? How many different civil wars have we decided in lands that aren't our own? It would be one thing if we acted solely for the good of suffering people, but that's not what we've done in many places across the world. Instead, we use the situation for our personal gain, which has been seen in Kosovo, Afghanistan, Palestine, Ethiopia, and of course Iraq. And people here wonder why everybody hates us.
Do you think us being in Iraq has helped the innocent Iraqi's who want to live freely, and prosper...or are you speaking of Al Queda in Iraq or Al Sadr's army ??

IMO your biased support of our government no matter what is why so many people dislike Americans. Fact is, we always think we're right in deciding the fate of other places. But in many cases, we are simply using their suffering for our own regional gains. And that's why it's wrong, that's why people hate us, that's why blind nationalism, just like blind religious extremism, needs to stop.
again, I dont agree with everything, like you say.....whether you like it or not, we are fighting a global war against terrorism, and sometimes things need to be done to keep us safe....the situation in Serbia is not one of those, however



You know, if you really believe Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh are objective views in national and wordly politics, it's no wonder why I'm having this discussion with you. Vinni, you simply can't be reasoned with, and that's why I said you don't have an open mind when it comes to our politics. Beck and Limbaugh are no better than Bill O'Reilly, one of the most biased individuals I've ever seen on television. All these people have is a strong right-wing agenda... can't you see that?
and Chomsky has the opposite view, which you agree with. I have a different opinion, so that makes me unreasonable ?? Thats pretty weak

And Noam Chomsky is a JEWISH American. In the video you watched he was analyzing the situation in the Middle East, specifically Lebanon, speaking out how the US and the IDF have had an unfair stranglehold over the region for too long, and our presence is only hurting matters. That's only the truth.
he's one of those people who believes that Israel shouldnt exist (which is bizarre for a Jew)....again the solution should be to share the land.

And isn't what Chomsky said like the epitomy of objectivity? A Jewish American criticising the tactics of the IDF and the US with respect to the good of all people involved. Yeah, this man is truly a retard.
no excuse for stating that our govenment was behind 9/11....



Sweet, they were all great. Not to mention KRS-One.

Don't mind me, but saying Obama is a "loud-mouthed black man" just comes off the wrong way.
so far, Obama has been doing a lot of talking (and loudly I might add)...all these promises, how do you think all these programs he has planned will be paid for ?? The answer is higher taxes for all



I still don't understand this argument. It's like you're trying to discredit me for being younger than you, or somehow not being fully grown yet, even though the doctor has indeed stated I've reached my full growth potential. :smoke:
not trying to discredit you...I was your age not all that long ago and had many of the same thoughts that you have...but things change with age

Talking about Glen Beck, right now he's talking about how bad Liberals happen to be, blasting democrats for not supporting big business corporations. Why should anybody support firms such as Halliburton and the like when they don't get anything back from them? Such corporations simply use their employees, pay them some minumum wage, then lay them off when nobody wants to buy their products anymore.

Is it really such a crime to dislike big business? Glen Beck is a fucking goddamn terrorist.
not all corporations are like Halliburton.....most keep families working, and offer lifelong careers. Without big corporations we lose jobs, our economy suffers, and no one is happy
 

Eddy

The Maestro
Aug 20, 2005
12,645
Crap. I see moron high school kids doing exactly that on Telegraph Ave. in Berkeley because they're bored, they hear some political protest is going down on campus, and they drive their dad's mini-van over from the suburbs to bust windows and steal property under the guise of joining some political protest.

I see absolutely nothing funny about that. :lazy:
well I was in a joking mood at that time..kind of sad looking at it now
 
May 4, 2004
11,622
Yes they are. If I'm to be on their place I would be also.
When you enter in any major city in the western Macedonia it's like you've entered in whole other different country, there is nothing that indicates that you are still in Macedonia.
Albanian flags waving everywhere, all the road signs, store names , street names even the menus in the restaurants are on Albanian... you feel like you're in the Twilight zone.
But hell yes , quoting you: it can still improve. Until it becomes populates 100% with Albanians ,who will then claim that they were there since the beginning of the world and rightfully that territory belongs exclusively to them.
And why do you think the Macedonian goverment are allowing them so much freedom??..

Maybe because Tetova, Kumonova, even your capital was Albanian terrotory's..
Like Ulqin in Montonegro was, Like Qameria in Greec was.. But hey, past is past, we wont get that land back!..
 

Alen

Ѕenior Аdmin
Apr 2, 2007
53,963
Juve_Kosova, your nationalism is disgusting. Sorry, but that's how i feel after reading your posts.
Yes, everything is Albanian. Poor Chinesse guys from Beijing still don't know that they live on Albanian territory.

Tetovo, Kumanovo......slavic names just like Kosovo. But now you just add an "A" at the end and you make them Albanian.
How come you don't have an Albanian name for these Albanian towns but you simply Albanise the Slavic names ?
Ulcinj is a town found by the Greeks and it's name has Latin origin. Ulcinio became Ulcinj for the Slavs and Ulqin for the Albanians. How come you don't have an Albanian name for the "Albanian" town but you albinised the Latin name ?

Albanians came to live in these parts much much later, when the Turks came to the Balkans. Put these FACTS into your head once and for all. Don't falsify the history.

Your attitude and the attitude of your counterparts from Serbia or other Balkan countries is the reason why there isn't peace on the Balkans.

Sorry for the over-reaction, but as a hystorian i always get pissed off when history is falsifyed for nationalistic purposes.
 
May 4, 2004
11,622
Juve_Kosova, your nationalism is disgusting. Sorry, but that's how i feel after reading your posts.
Yes, everything is Albanian. Poor Chinesse guys from Beijing still don't know that they live on Albanian territory.

Tetovo, Kumanovo......slavic names just like Kosovo. But now you just add an "A" at the end and you make them Albanian.
How come you don't have an Albanian name for these Albanian towns but you simply Albanise the Slavic names ?
Ulcinj is a town found by the Greeks and it's name has Latin origin. Ulcinio became Ulcinj for the Slavs and Ulqin for the Albanians. How come you don't have an Albanian name for the "Albanian" town but you albinised the Latin name ?

Albanians came to live in these parts much much later, when the Turks came to the Balkans. Put these FACTS into your head once and for all. Don't falsify the history.

Your attitude and the attitude of your counterparts from Serbia or other Balkan countries is the reason why there isn't peace on the Balkans.

Sorry for the over-reaction, but as a hystorian i always get pissed off when history is falsifyed for nationalistic purposes.
Haha nice way to react..

Facts and facts.. Illiria have been all over the place from North Macedonia and way op to Slovenia.. Illiria = Albanian.. The slavic people came from Russia.. FACTS!!!...
 

Alen

Ѕenior Аdmin
Apr 2, 2007
53,963
Haha nice way to react..

Facts and facts.. Illiria have been all over the place from North Macedonia and way op to Slovenia.. Illiria = Albanian.. The slavic people came from Russia.. FACTS!!!...
Yes, of course. How could i have been so ignorant until now, listening to what the Ancient Greeks and the Romans had to say. What the Byzanthine authors or the Turkish authors said about this. Illyrii proprie dicti and Illyrii vulgo dicti. I was so stupid to see a difference between these two , when in reality they are the same. I should have known better and learn from you and from Albanian elementary school teachers.

And in your Great Albania map you forgot to add Beijing, Tokyo and New York, or as they should be known by their Albanian names : Beijinga, Tokye and New Yorka.

Forgive me for being an ignoramus until now. Now i know a lot more thanks to you.

I owe you one, mr. Herodotus-Kosova
 
May 4, 2004
11,622
Yes, of course. How could i have been so ignorant until now, listening to what the Ancient Greeks and the Romans had to say. What the Byzanthine authors or the Turkish authors said about this. Illyrii proprie dicti and Illyrii vulgo dicti. I was so stupid to see a difference between these two , when in reality they are the same. I should have known better and learn from you and from Albanian elementary school teachers.

And in your Great Albania map you forgot to add Beijing, Tokyo and New York, or as they should be known by their Albanian names : Beijinga, Tokye and New Yorka.

Forgive me for being an ignoramus until now. Now i know a lot more thanks to you.

I owe you one, mr. Herodotus-Kosova
Good, Now go tell everyone what you just learnd..


But you know he was exaggerating just to annoy you, Alen :D
Habibi :agree:

He really means that though. I'm sure he really means it.

Anyway, he can think whatever he wants. I'm simply disagreeing with what he says.
Whatever man.. Sorry for replaying your post in the first place..
We Albanian should not even exist.. Thats the real history, right..
 
Jul 5, 2005
2,653
Facts and facts.. Illiria have been all over the place from North Macedonia and way op to Slovenia.. Illiria = Albanian.. The slavic people came from Russia.. FACTS!!!...
The fact is that Albanians have Caucasian origin and Bizantines (the middle ages Superpower-USA) brought you to the balkans. So you are IMMIGRANTS too. Here the facts:

The Byzantines brought Albanians to the current area they have populated only as mercenary troops (from Sicily where the Arabs had taken them), that is the reason they use the double headed eagle on a red background as their nations symbol, because that was the exact symbol the Byzantine army used.

In his book, "The Illyrians", John Wilkes gives us the info about the "movement":

With the coming of the Arabs, they converted the Old Albanians (from Caucasus) in the 8th century to Islam. But meanwhile, at the time, the Arabs were waging campaigns in Sicily, dividing it into two parts, (hence there was the Kingdom of the two Sicilies). In order to populate their part of Sicily, the Arabs brought with them Old Albanians from the Caucasus. To this day, their descendants live in Sicily.

Then in 1042, the Byzantine Empire attacked the young Serbian state after having defeated the Arabs in Sicily and having brought the Sicilian Albanians under their command and Christianizing them. The leader of the Byzantines who led the Albanians was named Georgios Maniakos. Maniakos brought Albanian mercenaries from Sicily to fight the Serbs and they settled in two waves in modern day Albania, first the mercenaries came, and then came the women and children. After the defeat of Maniakos, the Byzantines would not let the Albanians return, thus the Albanians requested that the Serbs let them stay on the land. They settled under mount Raban and the city of Berat and from this, the Serbs called them "Rabanasi" or "Arbanasi". The city of Berat was known as Belgrad also, before the Albanians came to settle there. They mostly tended sheep and cattle and lent themselves out to Serbian nobles as brave soldiers.


One of the GREATEST PROOFS that Albanians do come from the Caucasus and that THEY ARE NOT the descendants of the Ancient Illyrians is the Turkish name for the Albanians. "Arnauti", which means "those who have not returned" in Arabic, for the Turks were aware of the origins of the Albanians. And they truly did not return, they stayed in Serbian and Byzantine lands.

And T.J.Winnifrith seems to support this very same theory, we can find in his book: "A History of Northern Epirus/Southern Albania"

The revolts, in 1043, involves Albanians appearing as part of the army of the Byzantine general Maniakos, who, angry at his treatment by the emperor, set out from southern Italy, where he had conducted a brilliant but brutal campaign on behalf of the empire to seize power for himself. He marched the route of the Via Egnatia with an army of Latins and Albanians, carrying all before him meeting an ultimately death near Ostrovo in Greece. The Albanians mentioned by the historian Attaileiates would appear to be part of the Byzantine army, and there is a previous mention of Albanian troops serving in Italy under a general less competent that Maniaces.

From :
Moses Kalankaytuk «History of Aghvan» (Albania) book III, chap. V / also: «Sources on the history of Azerbaijan» (Azerbaycan tarixi uzre qaynaqlar) Baku 1989 p. 53 (in Azeri);
and
«Sources on the history of Azerbaijan» pp. 56-57 / also: Z. M. Baniatov «Review of the sources on the history of Azerbaijan. Arabic sources» (Obzor istochnikov po istorii Azerbaydzhana. Istochniki arabskiye) Baku 1964 p. 5 (in Russian)

we find that :
"By 705 the Arabs completed the invasion of Albania and the country became to be ruled by the Arab feudal lords- emirs. The Albanian church under the pressure from the Arabs and with the direct assistance of the Armenian church had to renounce Dyophisitism: Arabs couldn't tolerate the ideological unity of Albania and Byzantium."

So the conversion and movement of the population can be seen as an actual fact.

Then again we can find more than a few common place-names between the two areas in question:

In the republic of Georgia, in the Caucasus, on the terriory of the former Caucasian Albania, from where the Avar Khanate once had its capital, there is a village named: "Arnauti".
This is the name by which Serbs, Greeks, Turks, FYR-Macedonians and Montenegrin Serbs refer to Albanians in their respective langauges.
There is also village in Georgia named "Bushati", which is the name of an Albanian tribe ("fis") around Lake Skadar. There are three villages named: "Geguti", "Gegeni" and "Gegi". "Ghegheni" is the name designated to Albanians who live north of the Shkumbi River in Albania proper.

And more than enough Albanian - Chechen words to come to the same conclusion :

CHECHENIA=ICHQERIA
ALBANIA=SHQIPTERIA
Chechen=aakharkho,Albanian=katundar,English=peasan t
Chechen=alsamoo,Albanian=me shume,English=more
Chechen=aagan,Albanian=eker,English=wild
Chechen=aara dalan,Albanian=jashte dal,English=get out
Chechen=aaradaqqa,Albanian=terhoqa,English=withdra w
Chechen=aaradovlilla,Albanian=rrugedalje,English=e xit
Chechen=aare,Albanian=rrafsh,English=plain
Chechen=arzha,Albanian=zeze,English=black
Chechen=aaz,Albanian=ze,English=voice
Chechen=baarz,Albanian=varr,English=grave
Chechen=banka,Albanian=burre,English=man
Chechen=baar,Albanian=arre,English=nut
Chechen=bashkhan,Albanian=shkelqyer,English=excell ent
Chechen=bekhka,Albanian=borxh,English=debt,obligat ion
Chechen=bil ma,Albanian=fal me,English=im sorry
Chechen=besan,Albanian=zbehte,English=pale
Chechen=buha,Albanian=buf,English=owl
Chechen=cham,Albanian=shijshem,English=tasty
Chechen=yaalla,waala,Albanian=eja,English=come here
Chechen=chu,Albanian=hyj,English=get in
Chechen=daago,Albanian=djeg,English=burn
Chechen=dahiita,Albanian=dergoj,English=send
Chechen=dehndi,Albanian=gjedhe,English=cattle
Chechen=dain,Albanian=drite,English=light
Chechen=daakhkan,Albanian=gjendem,English=located
Chechen=delqa,Albanian=dreke,English=lunch
Chechen=dowgha,Albanian=djeges,English=hot
Chechen=duq,Albanian=aq,English=so many
Chechen=dyelkha,Albanian=kerkoj,English=to cry
Chechen=eskar,Albanian=ushtri,English=army
Chechen=ghaighanii,Albanian=hidheroj,English=make sad
Chechen=ghaala,Albanian=kala,English=castle
Chechen=gaalat,Albanian=gabim,English=mistake
Chechen=ghishto,Albanian=ngrehine,English=building
Chechen=gharlima,Albanian=ngrirje,English=freezing
Chechen=goola,Albanian=gju,English=knee
Chechen=hakkha,Albanian=terheq,English=draw
Chechen=hoqa,Albanian=kete,English=this
Chechen=hostam,Albanian=gozhde,English=nail
Chechen=khalkhar,Albanian=kercej,English=dance
Chechen=khan,Albanian=kohe,English=time
Chechen=khasbesh,Albanian=kopesht,English=garden
Chechen=keeda,Albanian=qetem,English=cut
Chechen=khena,Albanian=kohe,English=weather
Chechen=khila,Albanian=qene,English=been
Chechen=khilam,Albanian=kam,English=have
Chechen=kho,Albanian=koqeve,English=egg
Chechen=kog,Albanian=kembe,English=leg,foot
Chechen=Iighana,Albanian=Inatosur,English=Angry
Chechen=nana,Albanian=nene,English=mother
Chechen=Ysh,Albanian=Ishin,english=they were
Chechen=shu,Albanian=ju,English=you

I've read another "theory that suggests that :

"The Albanians call themselves "Shqip-tari". This name is not Indo-European in origin and contains in it the Ural-Altaic suffix "ar" or "tar". Much like: "Khaz-AR", "Av-AR", "Magy-AR", "Bulg-AR", "Hung-AR", "Ta-TAR" - "Ship-TAR". Taken together with the Shqiptar-Albanian toponyms on the territory of the former Caucasian Albania, are concidered to be enough proof to support this theory on the etymology of "Shqipatr". "

As for the IE dialect why do the use a numeric system that can be connected to the pre-IE.
Some search will show that the IE has a neat decimal counting system, while the Albanian and French languages show traces of a pre-IE, Old European counting system with base twenty, e.g. in French, 76 is soixante-seize, “60 + 16” (but in Belgian French, septante-six, “70 + 6”, the normal Romance form), or 80 is quatre-vingts, “4 X 20”. To be more precise: the analysis of 76 into 70 + 6 (as opposed to 60 + 16) is IE.
http://www.sf-fandom.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=15423
 

Alen

Ѕenior Аdmin
Apr 2, 2007
53,963
Don't even bother Joe5.
The medieval documents aren't a proof for anything. Those guys there didn't know what they're talking about.
Archeological findings should not be taken as a proof either.
What counts are the history books written in 1980's.
 
OP
The Arif

The Arif

Senior Member
Jan 31, 2004
12,564
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #660
    Albania is the Medieval Latin name of the country, which is called Shqipëri by the inhabitants. In Medieval Greek, the name is Albania besides variants Albaētia, Arbanētia. The ultimate origin of the Alb- element has been traced to an Illyrian alb "hill" cognate to the alp "mountain pasture" found in the Alpine region. In the 2nd century BC, in the History of the World, written by Polybius, there is mention of a city named Arbon in present-day central Albania. The people who lived there were called Arbanios and Arbanitai.

    Another suggestion is derivation from the Illyrian tribe of the Albanoi recorded by Ptolemy the geographer and astronomer from Alexandria, who drafted a map of remarkable significance for the history of Illyria. This map shows the city of Albanopolis (located Northeast of Durrës).

    In his History written in 1079-1080, Byzantine historian Michael Attaliates was the first to refer to Albanoi as having taken part in a revolt against Constantinople in 1043 and to the Arbanitai as subjects of the duke of Dyrrachium. During the Middle Ages, the Albanians called their country Arbër or Arbën and referred to themselves as Arbëresh or Arbnesh. As early as the 16th century, a new name for their home evolved among Albanian people: Shqipëria, "Land of the Eagles", hence the two-headed bird on the national flag. The name probably has its origins in the Skanderbeg family crest.

    The area of today's Albania has been populated since prehistoric times. In antiquity, much of it was settled by the Illyrians, possible ancestors of present-day Albanians.[9][10]The modern Albanian state comprises the southernmost part of ancient Illyria and the northern part of ancient Epirus.

    Surrounded by powerful, warring empires, Albania has experienced considerable violence and competition for control throughout its history. Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Venetians and Ottomans swept through, leaving their cultural mark as well as their ruins.

    Archaeological research shows that the lands that are today inhabited by Albanians were first populated in the Paleolithic Age (Stone Age). The first areas settled were those with favourable climatic and geographic conditions. In Albania, the earliest settlements have been discovered in the Gajtan cavern (Shkodra), in Konispol, at Mount Dajti, and at Saranda. Fragments of Cyclopean structures, were discovered at Kretsunitsa, Arinishta, and other sites in the district of Gjirokastra. The walls, partly Cyclopean, of an ancient city (perhaps Byllis) are visible at Gradishti on the picturesque Viosa River. Few traces remain of the once celebrated Dyrrhachium (today Durrës).

    The rediscovered Greek city of Butrint is probably more significant today than it was when Julius Caesar used it as a provisions depot for his troops during his campaigns in the 1st century BC. At that time, it was considered to be an unimportant outpost, overshadowed by the Greek colonies, Apollonia and Durrës.

    Formal investigation and recording of Albania's archaeological monuments began with Francois Pouqueville, who was Napoleon's consul-general to Ali Pasha's court, and Martin Leake, who was the British agent there. A French mission, led by Len Rey, worked throughout Albania from 1924 to 1938 and published its results in Cahiers d'Archéologie, d'art et d'Histoire en Albanie et dans les Balkans (Notes of Archaeology, Art, and History in Albania and in the Balkans).

    Archaeologists today are finding remains from all periods, from the Stone Age to the early Christian era.
     

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