World's newest state (4 Viewers)

[Elvin]

Care to explain "Mr. Know it all" ? Enlighten me. Go.

That was my point, nobody knows for sure which land is whose.

 

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[Kosta]

You see, this is what i'm saying all the time

I'm fully aware of all the articles in the Bucharest treaty of 1913 but you guys claim that it was your land.
Macedonia as a territory has been devided but Macedonia was a piece of land that belonged to Turkey for 5 centuries and belonged to Byzanthine before that, where Slavs (some called themselves Macedonians, some Bulgarians), Greeks, Albanians, Jews, Vlachs and a huge number of Turks lived.
Slavs, i'll call them Macedonians were 51% (and this is according to Vasil Kanchev, who was a Bulgarian and who overreacted when he gave this number for Slavs, he calls them Bulgarians).

Yes, but that is the case with all current Balkan countries, it's all mixed up with different nationalities and religions , but that it not justifying the fact that now there is two Albanian countries on the Balkans. What if now the authorities of Republika Srpska proclaim their own independence as well ?

 

[Bozi]

Six's different ethnic nationality in Kosova..

Albanian's : 90%
Serb's : 6%
Turk's - Bosniak's - Gorani - Romak 4 %

Momma??

Ok, peace then
Nothing personal against you and your country. As you said, we don't have to agree on anything here and we just shared our opinion.
I'm really not against Albanians at all. I mean , why should i be.......but what happened two days ago scares the hell out of me because i believe this won't stop here. This was a very dangerous precedent that may easily set the Balkans on fire.
And even though far from the happenings, my country is still a part of the Balkans.
I don't want my kid to grow up in the same atmosphere i was growing up and the others who lived in Bosnia or Croatia were growing up.
That's why i may seem to be against Kosovo. I'm not against it, i'm against what it could lead to.

Beh, i'll drop it now. What really matters here is :scarf:

that is a really great post alen mate

No one wants a new war.. And im very sure that what happend 2 days ago will one be doing thing better.. People will move on.. There will not be the conflicts that where there before.. Bosnia is independent, Montonegro is and now Kosova also!..

I hope the Balkans will move on, and become a peacefull place to be for everyone... We even changed our flag (to headed red&black eagle) wich ment (still does) the world to us, just to show that we will respect the ethnic goups in Kosova and give them all the rights they should have to live in a democratic country..

unfortunately mate i fear that a new war IS coming, oh but it won't be brought about by serbs-kosovars going at it but the whole climate in the balkans is gonna turn sour and that is where the big nations will start tossing their hats in and choosing sides.

hold onto yuor hats boys. this is gonna get messy

 

[Vinman]

I hope the next country to get what they deserve will be Kurdistan ..

I was actually thinking New Mexico

I'm afraid a warning in an internet forum is not enough, i wont respond to him because that will do no good either..but i've lost all respect for him, he's an ignorant coward in my eyes now.

Fred, chill man...Bes has a pretty fucked up sense of humor.....he has a go at Christianity as well

 

[Enron]

that's right,they live now here as integral part of independent state of Croatia,altough they wanted different in 91'....no go

Oh word. I got you man.

 

[Enron]

Rwanda was an entirely different situation than seen in the Balkans, and of course people will blame us for not acting. That's not the point.

The point is that the United States protrays itself as the peacekeeper, as the country to "justly" clean up different messes around the world in the "kindness of our good hearts." Yet practically every "peacekeeping" campaign we enter into nowadays contains some hidden agenda. In the 90's it was a struggle with Russia, just like it is today for assets in the Balkans. Our dealings with Ethiopia and Nigeria are based upon natural resources in those countries, and we have placed several leaders into power across the globe who have come back to haunt us and the people who lived under them. It may seem like people blast the US no matter what, but our track record certainly doesn't let us off the hook for much. Especially right now where we invade countries merely for oil.

But the fact is, I just cannot sit here and say what we have done in the Balkans is of everybody's best interest when we killed so many innocent civilians and continue to kill people today with traces of Uranium scattered across Eastern Bosnia and Serbia. As people here have already alluded to, they would much rather fight their own battles than have us come in, take sides, and then skew the outcome to our advantage. That's what you call using a land and a people.

I don't know how we can condone such actions.



We know the history, we just disregard it because it's not in our "best interest."

And I also want to pull our support of various places, especially Israel, and concentrate on what you stated. However, our economy depends too much on foreign oil, and that's why we're in Iraq and other places in the Middle East trying to secure pipelines and deals for our petroleum safety. This won't end... no way. We will just continue prancing around like we're the moral proprietors of the world, forming deals in the expense of others.

Rawanda is a very similar situation in some degrees, but obviously this is something we won't agree on. We will just have to agree to disagree.

I whole heartedly agree with your second statement, as I have said the same thing about three times already in this thread. Though I think if Obama is elected the US will have a more positive effect in the world.

 

[Cronios]

So many posts, so little time, at least i m really proud of you, juventuz members, for keeping it clean of personal conflicts/insults!
There is a degree of fairness in every side and who can blame a whole nation today, for the sins of the fathers?
We should all hunt big ideals and not big ideas...
Even if we cant respect each others origins, we should at least respect each others human rights, criminals from both sides should pay, but not in the cost of innocents and in the cost of future peace and prosperity of the region,
so far we have seen many sacrifices and little results, the approach of the dominating leaders proved to be wrong anyway!
Nationalism should be surpressed from all sides, not encouraged to flourish!
We should turn our problems to social ones, not ethnic ones!
The Albanians are a group of people that have many influences and little basic culture, they are now united because they feel threatened and formed a common front. I m afraid that soon enough new differences might be discovered and if we dig deeper we will discover that there were more nations than Dardanians and Illyrians in the region. New conflicts may appear and they can also may be loose connected to historic facts. These conflicts may lead to more and more pieces/countries in the balkans. Is this a step forward?
Is this the way to solve our problems in the long run?

 

[Enron]

So many posts, so little time, at least i m really proud of you, juventuz members, for keeping it clean of personal conflicts/insults!
There is a degree of fairness in every side and who can blame a whole nation today, for the sins of the fathers?
We should all hunt big ideals and not big ideas...
Even if we cant respect each others origins, we should at least respect each others human rights, criminals from both sides should pay, but not in the cost of innocents and in the cost of future peace and prosperity of the region,
so far we have seen many sacrifices and little results, the approach of the dominating leaders proved to be wrong anyway!
Nationalism should be surpressed from all sides, not encouraged to flourish!
We should turn our problems to social ones, not ethnic ones!
The Albanians are a group of people that have many influences and little basic culture, they are now united because they feel threatened and formed a common front. I m afraid that soon enough new differences might be discovered and if we dig deeper we will discover that there were more nations than Dardanians and Illyrians in the region. New conflicts may appear and they can also may be loose connected to historic facts. These conflicts may lead to more and more pieces/countries in the balkans. Is this a step forward?
Is this the way to solve our problems in the long run?

I have to agree. We've done well at behaving ourselves and staying on topic. :hug:


After some serious thinking, I just wonder if this is going to lead to the Chechyns, Taiwanese, Basques, and Catulans getting independence?*



*Spelling?

 

[Bozi]

I have to agree. We've done well at behaving ourselves and staying on topic. :hug:


After some serious thinking, I just wonder if this is going to lead to the Chechyns, Taiwanese, Basques, and Catulans getting independence?*



*Spelling?

don't ask me, i can't even spell THE properly half the time:faq1:

 

[Zé Tahir]

I have to agree. We've done well at behaving ourselves and staying on topic. :hug:


After some serious thinking, I just wonder if this is going to lead to the Chechyns, Taiwanese, Basques, and Catulans getting independence?*



*Spelling?

You had to do serious thinking about that? That's what Alen's been talking about the entire time

 

[Enron]

You had to do serious thinking about that? That's what Alen's been talking about the entire time

Not really but I wanted sound like it was a big question after I had :hug: in the same post.

 

[Zé Tahir]

Why can't we all listen to her and just get along?

 

[swag]

Just looking at her will do for a while.

Some women are better seen than heard, afterall.

 

[Enron]

Why can't we all listen to her and just get along?

Ill do whatever she wants.

 

[Zé Tahir]

Gentlemen, we're making headway here

 

[Enron]

If that's what you call it.

 

[Bjerknes]

that would be impossible because Kurdish and Assyrians are waiting for their independence to come for more than 80 years on that land you just referred to. northern Iran if Im not mistaken.

Man, this is why Alen is totally correct in saying the declaration of Kosovo as an independent state ignites a terrible precedent. We could have claims of independence from almost anybody now.

It's only a matter of time before descendents of Carthage, Ancient Greece and Rome start fighting over who has the rights to Sicily and Sardinia again.

Rawanda is a very similar situation in some degrees, but obviously this is something we won't agree on. We will just have to agree to disagree.

I whole heartedly agree with your second statement, as I have said the same thing about three times already in this thread. Though I think if Obama is elected the US will have a more positive effect in the world.

First and foremost, we should stop supporting Israel, IMO.

 

[Bjerknes]

I've never seen Andy at this end of the conversation. It's usually him always backing the States no matter what.

Glad you've opened your eyes

Hey, I haven't always defended the US in foreign affairs. You know I've thoroughly spoken out against the war on Iraq many of times, as well as our support of Israel.

 

[Bjerknes]

Vinni, how is Noam Chomsky a retard again?

 

[JCK]

Vinni, how is Noam Chomsky a retard again?

That was by far the funniest thing Vinman said. I recall very well and it was a turning point in my attitude towards him, it was the last time I try ti discuss something with Vinman.