Wishlist and General Juve mercato talk (2014-15) (22 Viewers)

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LiquidPLP

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2012
12,237
Thats why the oscar option is interesting !

Oscar + 30mil

---Vidal - Marchisio

Nani - Tevez/Oscar - Oscar/Tevez

-----Llorente

This just needs 1 Leftwinger the season afterwards to do :

---Vidal - Marchisio

Nani - Oscar - somehawtleftwinger

-----Tevez or Llorente



Compare this to the formation wich uses Di Maria, we see even higher workrate, but alot more creativity, a true trequartista general, and so much players who can decide a game on their own.
You're not being consistent here. You claim Tevez can't play LWF in 433 but suddenly he could in 4231 which would require him to play closer to the line and far further from the goal. That's why Oscar wouldn't be the best option but Di Maria would. You place Di maria on the wing and Tevez plays in the middle behind Llorente.

Who wouldn't fap to that? :tuttosport:

First one, but I'd rather have Di Maria and cash than Coentrao / Morata. So Di Maria and 35-40mln.

Llorente

Di Maria - Tevez - Cuadrado

Marchisio - Vidal


With Asamoah as a LB, since I don't think a duo consisting him and Vidal would work, considering they are both box-to-box players and non of them have organizational skills.

These players are very hardworking and talented in the same time, IMO a very balanced team.

Menez for free as back-up player for LM/AM position, and if manage to sell some deadwood get a cheap RW.

This would be a dream come true.
 

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Dostoevsky

Tzu
Administrator
May 27, 2007
89,030
That is offcourse a very good alternative, cant say much wrong about that. And its very solid aswel.
Now here is the interesting part.

Add Nani to that team, and you got an excellent standin for tevez (yet not natural position) and can easely go to the formation i mention.
I'd rather buy Cerci, so we'd end up playing both 3-5-2 (Cerci as a SS) and 4-3-1-2.

I like Nani, but man... risk transfer, too big risk IMO. I think he'll end up at Inter, though.
 

Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
42,253
We weren't going to win $#@! in Europe with Capello and his outdated style of football. Such a stubborn and inflexible coach.
I don't man. I think he would have figured Europe out in another year or two with that attack. With Ibra slowly coming into his own, we would have crushed all comers.

I'm still choked about Nedved's cheap yellow in 02/03 that made us lose that final under Lippi. No way we don't win with Nedved in. All we were missing was his creativity and pace. So many European moments to be depressed about as a Juve fan over the last 18 years since '96.

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I'd rather buy Cerci, so we'd end up playing both 3-5-2 (Cerci as a SS) and 4-3-1-2.

I like Nani, but man... risk transfer, too big risk IMO. I think he'll end up at Inter, though.
This. I'd prefer Cerci over Nani any day. I see Nani being to big a risk to flop, and also too expensive for us to gamble on in that way.

I'd rather go for Cerci, or someone young, with a lot of potential like Ocampos, or the somewhat cheaper Iturbe.
 

Dostoevsky

Tzu
Administrator
May 27, 2007
89,030
Menez will be a good back up for free. He can cover both sides, he can play behind a striker and he can even play as a SS. If we don't sell Pogba I believe our targets will be Cerci + Menez.
 

LiquidPLP

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2012
12,237
Speaking of the 3 offers for Pogba I think the best would be to take Madrid's offer: Di Maria + Coentrao + cash. Then it would look like this:


Buffon
Licht - Barzagli - Chiellini - Coentrao
Vidal - Pirlo - Asamoah
Di Maria - Llorente - Tevez

This is not prefect but we all know the transition year from 352 to 433/4231 has to happen because we won't solve all problems in one year. I think this is somewhat realistic IF RM is serious about Pogba and they're willing to make the offer.

While attacking Tevez would be closer to Llorente and Coentrao or Asamoah would be moving higher up the pitch to the left. In 352 Coentrao would be LWB and Asa in the middle. Di Maria can play in the middle as CM which would be useful at times.
 

Hust

Senior Member
Hustini
May 29, 2005
93,703
Speaking of the 3 offers for Pogba I think the best would be to take Madrid's offer: Di Maria + Coentrao + cash. Then it would look like this:


Buffon
Licht - Barzagli - Chiellini - Coentrao
Vidal - Pirlo - Asamoah
Di Maria - Llorente - Tevez

This is not prefect but we all know the transition year from 352 to 433/4231 has to happen because we won't solve all problems in one year. I think this is somewhat realistic IF RM is serious about Pogba and they're willing to make the offer.

While attacking Tevez would be closer to Llorente and Coentrao or Asamoah would be moving higher up the pitch to the left. In 352 Coentrao would be LWB and Asa in the middle.
Love that lineup :D
 

Dostoevsky

Tzu
Administrator
May 27, 2007
89,030
Does anyone see us being able to retain Pogba this summer?
I always though we'll surely sell either Pogba or Vidal this summer. How time went by I'm more and more certain Vidal is gonna stay here for quite a while.

I cannot say the same for Pogba. IF we get good offers for him he's out for sure IMO. However, if we do manage to keep him, it's gonna be his final year at Turin.

Conte changing the formation also makes me think we'll be 'forced' to sell him for big money in order to bring in the new players who'd offer us alternative formation.
 
Jul 20, 2012
20,044
I always though we'll surely sell either Pogba or Vidal this summer. How time went by I'm more and more certain Vidal is gonna stay here for quite a while.

I cannot say the same for Pogba. IF we get good offers for him he's out for sure IMO. However, if we do manage to keep him, it's gonna be his final year at Turin.

Conte changing the formation also makes me think we'll be 'forced' to sell him for big money in order to bring in the new players who'd offer us alternative formation.
I think Pogba is a beast and he is going to become a great player but in a way I don't see him as unsellable like Vidal.

I agree I thought Vidal was going to be sold but thank god he isn't. What makes you think Conte will change formations besides rumors?
 

Dostoevsky

Tzu
Administrator
May 27, 2007
89,030
I think Pogba is a beast and he is going to become a great player but in a way I don't see him as unsellable like Vidal.

I agree I thought Vidal was going to be sold but thank god he isn't. What makes you think Conte will change formations besides rumors?
No doubt about that, Pogba is an amazing player/talent. Sadly, we're not in a position to be able to keep him. I'm sure many fans will be furious when/if he leaves the club but none of them will look at a bigger picture. I'm sure clubs that want him will be willing to pay more than 6mln/year for him, which is way too much for us to compete. Not to mention his greedy agent who looks just for the bonuses. This or next summer, I think he's on his way out. But yeah, if I had to pick one player to stay, it would surely be Vidal. Simply because he's too good.

I think we're gonna change the formation/buy new players to be able to change it, because we have a weak spot and a good/strong club can exploit it (just the way Milan did, we were only lucky to win that). Also, we're in a tough spot regarding some (many players), we have players like Quag, Mirko, Giovinco potentially leaving in the summer, which will make quite a lot of space for new players and formations. I think it's pretty sad we have no wingers in this team bar Mirko. One more thing, if Pogba does leave, I think we'll still have a good midfield only if we place Asamoah at his place and we'll not suffer much, which will make plenty of space for investing on new positions which in my opinion will be winger(s), cm back up and potentially a left back/lw.
 
Jul 20, 2012
20,044
No doubt about that, Pogba is an amazing player/talent. Sadly, we're not in a position to be able to keep him. I'm sure many fans will be furious when/if he leaves the club but none of them will look at a bigger picture. I'm sure clubs that want him will be willing to pay more than 6mln/year for him, which is way too much for us to compete. Not to mention his greedy agent who looks just for the bonuses. This or next summer, I think he's on his way out. But yeah, if I had to pick one player to stay, it would surely be Vidal. Simply because he's too good.

I think we're gonna change the formation/buy new players to be able to change it, because we have a weak spot and a good/strong club can exploit it (just the way Milan did, we were only lucky to win that). Also, we're in a tough spot regarding some (many players), we have players like Quag, Mirko, Giovinco potentially leaving in the summer, which will make quite a lot of space for new players and formations. I think it's pretty sad we have no wingers in this team bar Mirko. One more thing, if Pogba does leave, I think we'll still have a good midfield only if we place Asamoah at his place and we'll not suffer much, which will make plenty of space for investing on new positions which in my opinion will be winger(s), cm back up and potentially a left back/lw.
The sale of Pogba in my view suggests a change of formation if we actually do get Di Maria in the deal. As you stated, If we put Asa in midfield he would be able to do the same job as Pogba however in my opinion Asamoah is alot better than Pogba currently because of decision making and defensive ability. However I highly doubt Asa would be used as a cm unless we can find an adequate lb. Coentrao in my opinion would be a very good option for lb, but I don't see Conte benching Asa.

I could see a midfield of Vidal-Marchisio/Asa. I am kind of with Zach on the formation change. While the 4-3-3 would accommodate our midfield, where would Tevez go? The 4-2-3-1 would be better suited in the sense that we would have Di Maria and we would still have that partnership of Tevez-Llorente. If we traded Pogba for Di Maria+Coentrao we would be 1-2 signings away from being a cl contender in my opinion.

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One of pogba or Vidal are gone I think.
Vidal will stay so if anyone is to leave it has to be Pogba.
 

Dostoevsky

Tzu
Administrator
May 27, 2007
89,030
I could see a midfield of Vidal-Marchisio/Asa. I am kind of with Zach on the formation change. While the 4-3-3 would accommodate our midfield, where would Tevez go? The 4-2-3-1 would be better suited in the sense that we would have Di Maria and we would still have that partnership of Tevez-Llorente. If we traded Pogba for Di Maria+Coentrao we would be 1-2 signings away from being a cl contender in my opinion.
If we change to 4-2-3-1 you realize Tevez would still most likely play on the left side? That is pretty much the same problem with 4-3-3. He might play behind a striker but I'm not so sure I want to see that.

Both Tevez and Llorente should keep playing and we'll only see that happen if we switch to 4-3-1-2. It will be much easier to change into that formation as we'd have less players to buy. For 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 we'd have at least 4 wingers to play, in order to be able to play it.

And again, I have no idea why you people suggest a midfield of 2 players. Pirlo - Vidal should NOT be an option and NO we're not going to bench Pirlo.
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
You're not being consistent here. You claim Tevez can't play LWF in 433 but suddenly he could in 4231 which would require him to play closer to the line and far further from the goal. That's why Oscar wouldn't be the best option but Di Maria would. You place Di maria on the wing and Tevez plays in the middle behind Llorente.
Here is the deal. Di Maria is a very good player, but Oscar is significantly better, and is by far the best CAM in the world for juventus. Not a single player would fit us better then Oscar in that position. Forget any other CAM.

The issue simply is that we would lack a leftwinger. But its a 4231. We can perfectly have Tevez and Oscar switch around on who stays central, and who dives down the flank.
But it can be solved much more easely. We can get Menez. Perhaps even Cerci. Play Llorente up front, or Tevez in the style of Benzema.


Yeah, i'm not a fan of menez. In a 433. Because in a 433 the wingers are everything. They make the attack work. With pogba and vidal limited, menez would be a downgrade.

However, in the 4231 its the other way around. Menez enables Oscar to play his natural role, and Tevez to play up front, getting huge synergy out of the team. In this situation, a Cerci or Menez will work. They dont carry the team, they arent limiting others. They allow excellent players to work their style.


Speaking of the 3 offers for Pogba I think the best would be to take Madrid's offer: Di Maria + Coentrao + cash. Then it would look like this:


Buffon
Licht - Barzagli - Chiellini - Coentrao
Vidal - Pirlo - Asamoah
Di Maria - Llorente - Tevez

This is not prefect but we all know the transition year from 352 to 433/4231 has to happen because we won't solve all problems in one year. I think this is somewhat realistic IF RM is serious about Pogba and they're willing to make the offer.

While attacking Tevez would be closer to Llorente and Coentrao or Asamoah would be moving higher up the pitch to the left. In 352 Coentrao would be LWB and Asa in the middle. Di Maria can play in the middle as CM which would be useful at times.
Obviously, that formation is bad. Tevez is not a pure winger, and in a 433 he would be forced to play like one. Meaning he'll be mostly playing central, and coentrao would need to push very far forward, opening the flank for counters.
Nope, for a 433 you really do need real wingers and balance.
Especially balance. For your formation to work, you'd need Di Maria and Reus on the wings.

Menez will be a good back up for free. He can cover both sides, he can play behind a striker and he can even play as a SS. If we don't sell Pogba I believe our targets will be Cerci + Menez.
That would be a good mercato, because both players tick the boxes of beeing both wingers and capable of playing in our current formation.

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If we change to 4-2-3-1 you realize Tevez would still most likely play on the left side? That is pretty much the same problem with 4-3-3. He might play behind a striker but I'm not so sure I want to see that.

Both Tevez and Llorente should keep playing and we'll only see that happen if we switch to 4-3-1-2. It will be much easier to change into that formation as we'd have less players to buy. For 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 we'd have at least 4 wingers to play, in order to be able to play it.

And again, I have no idea why you people suggest a midfield of 2 players. Pirlo - Vidal should NOT be an option and NO we're not going to bench Pirlo.
Vidal - Pirlo, with a 4 man backline can work, if your team has high workrate. The 3am line needs to work.

Thing with tevez is that its very diffrent wether its 433 or 4231. We've seen assymetrical 4231's before, However for a 433 its essential for width that both wingers are true wingers and not clogging the center where the cm's are operating.

So you could field tevez/oscar as a transition, but you cannot field tevez in a 433
 

Joe

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2009
14,980
Oscar would be brilliant. We really need someone with his creativity and his technique. He's also young and has the legs to track back.
 

LiquidPLP

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2012
12,237
Obviously, that formation is bad. Tevez is not a pure winger, and in a 433 he would be forced to play like one. Meaning he'll be mostly playing central, and coentrao would need to push very far forward, opening the flank for counters.
Nope, for a 433 you really do need real wingers and balance.
Especially balance. For your formation to work, you'd need Di Maria and Reus on the wings.
This is simply not true. Tevez will move closer to Llorente, Coentrao moves higher up the pitch but Asamoah is still there in a deeper position closer to the left wing in front of Chiellini and near Pirlo. Besides you have 3 defenders right there: Chiellini, Barzagli and Licht because when Coentrao is attacking Licht can't go too much forward.

I think it's exactly the opposite. In the 4231 you need the real wingers because you have just 2 CMs which is not enough. In 433 you have wingers much higher up the pitch which would suit Tevez much more than in 4231. It's not like now Tevez doesn't drop to wings at all. Tevez and Oscar are way too similar to play together and none can play on the wing of 4231.

In 4231 you have no place for Pirlo as well.
 
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