Wishlist and General Juve mercato talk (2011-12) (56 Viewers)
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i dont have to ask myself anything, i watch and have been watching this league and know exactly what goes on, river and boca are the biggest team in argentina and as so are subject to more pressure, not to menation that their barras are the biggest too, and barras are government sanctioned thugs that management can do nothing about, once again you picked the wrong subject/guy to run into today 
Os, I used the Brazil league comparison as an example of how poor management can affect teams - the Brazil economy may be booming, but that has not helped all clubs get rich, only a few ... majority are still mostly struggling to survive and selling their players is their main source of income to survive ... not all of them have the financial stability and can afford the salaries Santos, Sao Paolo, Flamengo and some others are paying their players.
"The Economy is poor" argument could hardly be an universally logical reason for River's relegation considering all other Argie teams have to deal with the same condition, without having River's economic potential as a brand and still do not get relegated and even manage to win titles - just take a look at stats of Argie Primera Division and see how many different clubs have been Apertura or Clausura champs since 2008 (last time River and Boca won those titles) ... how come they have managed that, while River not only didn't win anything, they got themselves relegated? Note, we are not talking here about finishing 5th, 6th or whatever, we are talking relegation!
As you can see for yourself, the counter argument to the above was of the type - I know more than anyone else, deal with it
"The Economy is poor" argument could hardly be an universally logical reason for River's relegation considering all other Argie teams have to deal with the same condition, without having River's economic potential as a brand and still do not get relegated and even manage to win titles - just take a look at stats of Argie Primera Division and see how many different clubs have been Apertura or Clausura champs since 2008 (last time River and Boca won those titles) ... how come they have managed that, while River not only didn't win anything, they got themselves relegated? Note, we are not talking here about finishing 5th, 6th or whatever, we are talking relegation!
As you can see for yourself, the counter argument to the above was of the type - I know more than anyone else, deal with it
Yeah not saying economy is only factor, but mainly that Argies cant be compared to Brazilian clubs in overall because they are better off financially, its mismanagement but also poor state financially in overall (while Brazil to opposite, Mexico fairly rich too). Thats why you see Dario Conca's, D'alessandro's, Montillo's, Defederico's, Cavenaghi's and so on in Brazilian league, and not in Argie one anymore (and less and less argie stars return home, Saviola and Aimar wanted to go back to River I read, D'Alessandro too, but cant afford them even in they had big paycuts). financial difference is too clear. Dont mean River in that (and yeah know they are very mismanaged, read posts of very depressed River fans in XT), just general argentina, effects their football in a way naturally, because they have been selling players cheaper and cheaper since financial meltdown of years ago.
And yeah for it to be discussion in a football thread, you actually discuss things, its not very proudctive to just say you know better and dont say what or clarify in any way. Better to be informative then elitist, even if one knows way more indepth about a league.
And yeah for it to be discussion in a football thread, you actually discuss things, its not very proudctive to just say you know better and dont say what or clarify in any way. Better to be informative then elitist, even if one knows way more indepth about a league.
Not arguing against the above, Os ... my argument vs the whole Economy bad=River relegated point is this: how come other Argie teams have found a way to deal with it better than River, after all, all those teams play in the same league as River and have to deal with the same economic hardships.
Not only that, but most teams in Argentina have nowhere near the marketing appeal and economic potential of River's, which means that if a team like RP gets relegated, they are not an example of just poor management, but an example of a criminally mismanaged team.
In Brazil teams are being boosted by an economy on the up, but then there are the examples of Palmeras, a couple of years ago, and more recently Corinthians, who either shared River's fate or almost fell apart again due to inept management. Point is, good economy does not make up for poor management.
Not only that, but most teams in Argentina have nowhere near the marketing appeal and economic potential of River's, which means that if a team like RP gets relegated, they are not an example of just poor management, but an example of a criminally mismanaged team.
In Brazil teams are being boosted by an economy on the up, but then there are the examples of Palmeras, a couple of years ago, and more recently Corinthians, who either shared River's fate or almost fell apart again due to inept management. Point is, good economy does not make up for poor management.
he already did, remember - he said he knows more about River's and the league's issues.
I am discussing the stuff with Osman now, discussing being the key word, as Osman is down, more or less, to my level
P.S. but JMilwaukee is right, thread should be left to it's original purpose, if someone feels like talking about the River debacle, in a civil way, my PM box is available
I am discussing the stuff with Osman now, discussing being the key word, as Osman is down, more or less, to my level
P.S. but JMilwaukee is right, thread should be left to it's original purpose, if someone feels like talking about the River debacle, in a civil way, my PM box is available
it's also not a good strategy to engage in simplism and platitudes when you are trying to figure something out, here's an idea: ask a question. and i dont mean in a taunting or admonishing way. Homeboy doesnt know about the subject and its pretty clear too, yet he wants to have a say, i am cool with that as long as hes cool with me calling his bs. Now, river actually had a pretty good campaign and as i said somewhere else actually qualified to sudamericana but they hit a patch of poor form at the end and the pressure from its big fan base(which smaller teams dont have) got to them. This word mismanagement is thrown around without any qualifications, whos mismanaging? who is actually making most of the decisions? what kind of say do the barras and the government have in the clubs? River fans will throw in passarella or Jeta jeta, but the fact is playing or working for either river or boca is just hell. Beyond the talent drain which i exemplified with munoz, both boca and river try to recruit the best personnel and coaches from the league only for most of them to fail and falter under teh pressure. if you re dont watch the league you can see that by comparing the performance of the players who arrive at said clubs to that of those who go to other teams within the league. For instance look at teh champs velez and the ex river players it has. And this has nothing to do with mismanagement(whatever the bloody word means).
Now for me to give you a little lesson, before you actually jump to the rescue of someone in distress try to figure out why they got there in the first place.
Now for me to give you a little lesson, before you actually jump to the rescue of someone in distress try to figure out why they got there in the first place.
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