When will you stop supporting Juve? (7 Viewers)

[Martin]

Read my previous post.

I said I didn't mean it in the sense that they actually decided to pick me but rather, the accumalation of all the enviroment factors around me led me to pick them. So if I was destined to support them because of all the preconditions, then it's kind of like they picked me in a sense. It's fucked up I know, but I like to think fo it that way

You can't say the word "pick" because it presupposes the freedom to make a choice. At best you can say it happened and you don't know why

 

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[Lion]

 

[Martin]

Bald man not as funny as you think he is.

 

[rounder]

You can't say the word "pick" because it presupposes the freedom to make a choice. At best you can say it happened and you don't know why

Always back to semantics with you, eh?

I don't know about that really, Martin. Does making a choice always presuppose free will. Say for the sake of argument that I'm psychic, and if I was faced with someone who's thoughts I can read with ease, would free will exist for him?

Now, this person can choose to do whatever he wants but I already know what he will do. Will he have free will then?

 

[Martin]

Always back to semantics with you, eh?

I don't know about that really, Martin. Does making a choice always presuppose free will. Say for the sake of argument that I'm psychic, and if I was faced with someone who's thoughts I can read with ease, would free will exist for him?

Now, this person can choose to do whatever he wants but I already know what he will do. Will he have free will then?

I think the only important question is this: can you ever be put in a situation where you know an action that you yourself will perform in the future and not be able to change that outcome?

Other than that I don't think any of this matters.

 

[Martin]

Btw Michael Shermer had a nice perspective on this. He wrote that we can assume the universe is deterministic, but because predicting the future would necessitate computing the future trajectory of every single particle in the universe, we obviously don't have enough particles available from which to build the computers that could makes this calculation.

So strictly speaking deterministic, but still unknowable.

 

[rounder]

I think the only important question is this: can you ever be put in a situation where you know an action that you yourself will perform in the future and not be able to change that outcome?

Other than that I don't think any of this matters.

Well, sure, that's way of looking at it. I don't know if it doesn't matter if it's true that everyone's actions are predetermined by enviormental and biological conditions. Because, if it is true, and I think it is because I don't see an alternative, then can anyone really be held accountable for what he does?

Btw Michael Shermer had a nice perspective on this. He wrote that we can assume the universe is deterministic, but because predicting the future would necessitate computing the future trajectory of every single particle in the universe, we obviously don't have enough particles available from which to build the computers that could makes this calculation.

So strictly speaking deterministic, but still unknowable.

Kind of paradoxical in a sense but interesting.

 

[Martin]

Well, sure, that's way of looking at it. I don't know if it doesn't matter if it's true that everyone's actions are predetermined by enviormental and biological conditions. Because, if it is true, and I think it is because I don't see an alternative, then can anyone really be held accountable for what he does?

Yes, because there is no alternative. "Everyone do whatever you want" doesn't work.

 

[JCK]

Is that something someone is supposed to plan?

Actually the question is exactly like a question I was asked once, when will you stop smoking grass?

 

[rounder]

Yes, because there is no alternative. "Everyone do whatever you want" doesn't work.

Sure, that wouldn't be very practical. But don't you think it's a bit harsh to torture someone for a crime he didn't really choose to do? Or to sentence someone to a life in prison for something he had no real control of? This all seems problematic to me.

 

[Martin]

Is that something someone is supposed to plan?

Actually the question is exactly like a question I was asked once, when will you stop smoking grass?

You could say "until further notice".

 

[rounder]

Is that something someone is supposed to plan?

Actually the question is exactly like a question I was asked once, when will you stop smoking grass?

So when will you stop smoking grass?

 

[JBF]

Is that something someone is supposed to plan?

Actually the question is exactly like a question I was asked once, when will you stop smoking grass?

7asheeeeeesh you mean

 

[Delle Alpi]

Is that even a legit question to ask to REAL juve fans?
I have been a fan since the 1994 season, and I would never leave my team.

 

[Martin]

Sure, that wouldn't be very practical. But don't you think it's a bit harsh to torture someone for a crime he didn't really choose to do? Or to sentence someone to a life in prison for something he had no real control of? This all seems problematic to me.

If he had no choice but to commit that crime then I, as a prosecutor/judge/whatever, had no choice but to send him to jail.

Determinism for one, determinism for all.

 

[Martin]

Is that even a legit question to ask to REAL juve fans?
I have been a fan since the 1994 season, and I would never leave my team.

would or will?

 

[rounder]

If he had no choice but to commit that crime then I, as a prosecutor/judge/whatever, had no choice but to send him to jail.

Determinism for one, determinism for all.

True, but the Judge here isn't being victimized here. It's the criminal who is. He's the one who's going to get the punishment, so that's really the point I'm trying to make. Is it really fair to the criminal if he had no other alternative?

 

[JCK]

You could say "until further notice".

But it is not "until further notice".

Will you stop drinking water?

 

[Delle Alpi]

would or will?

Will NEVER ever, ever ever

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

When will I stop supporting Juve?

My brain just exploded.