What is your god like? (9 Viewers)

[Raz]

Interesting, because i think christianity will have very much to do to in order to survive in this technology age, i dont know much about muslims, but i suspect that they too will have to do some adapting too, or they will die out in time. Because those books werent written for our age people, and until the last century there wasnt such a bog thing to adapt for religions, but now when we have such a bog technological acceleration they will have to adapt or will face real problems surviving.

Dont worry i havent lost my values along the way, and im certainly not loosing them. And i have no need for a book to scare me into believing in some things.

If you take god out of equation from bible i dont have any problem with them, because there are some very good things written in them. I suppose its the same in quran too.

And no need to say that those who dont believe would act like animals without law, there are plenty and enough religious people acting like animals even with laws. The problem is not god in acting good or bad, its education. If you would have a well educated sociaty it wouldnt need so much laws as the current ones do.

Anway, night all im of to sleep

 

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[Zé Tahir]

Ps: Quran wasn't written b y muhammed.. it was said by mohammed... people memorized it.. some wrote down what they memorized some didnt... then by the time of the 2nd and 3rd caliph they decided they should put that in a book so they gathered it all and published it and made copies etc. But mohammed never wrote he just spoke

The memorization had two purposes. One was that many people at that time couldn't read or write, the second reason was to maintain accuracy. If a bunch of people memorized the same thing than a mistake by anyone could be corrected.

It started being written down during the life of the 1st Caliph actually, Hazrat Abu Bakr and iirc was completed by the time of the 2nd Caliph, Hazrat Umar. And I believe it was Hazrat Osman, the 3rd Caliph, that decided the order of the chapters.

 

[Seven]

Read a couple of pages back Ze.... 7 was getting owned so badly

Mohammed faked being illiterate is a must read I'm telling you, you don't wanna miss that one

Yeah, I read them..I had a good laugh.

So Prophet Muhammad faked being illiterate then wrote the Qur'an entirely on his own and in the end profited absolutely NOTHING from his work. Brilliant

Not to mention the Qur'an wasn't even published in his life time

I didn't get owned you fucktards.

I'm still waiting for my evidence. Because it's going to take more than "we believe Muhammad was illiterate". No, no, I want to see proof that he was. If I hear you talk, it can't be that hard. So again, here's what I want:

1) Absolute proof that he was illiterate.
2) Absolute proof that he was alone.

Oh and Muhammad profited alright . That the Quran wasn't published in his life time helps my argument, not yours. I know you're a madman Ze, but unlike DPFL, you're not stupid. You know perfectly well what I'm talking about and you know you can't provide what I asked for.

The sad thing is that Islam used to be about knowledge. All you two offer is a very simplistic idea of life, with no reasoning behind it whatsoever. And so I see that Islam is now being used for the exact opposite of the goal it once served..

 

[Martin]

What's so good about religion really?

Do you know how difficult it is to believe? The path to God in nearly every religion is full of thorns; it has distractions, you have to make tough decisions, you have to control your negative desires, you have responsibilites, etc. Do you really think we made up God and religion to inflict pain on ourselves? Do we look like sadists to you?

To not believe in God is easy as hell. You get to do what ever the hell you want pretty much without any consequences.

This notion of "we fear the unknown so we imagine things there, good things, that look after us and etc." is utter nonsense. You people just keep recycling the same arguments over and over again.

Hah, very good, young one. Except what do you get for all this "inner turmoil"? The conviction that you are one with god and will live an eternal life. That's ample reward for the effort.

This is precisely the apparent paradox of religiosity. I say apparent because it's not genuinely a paradox. The human mind can convince itself of the most ridiculous things. And religious people have gone to insane lengths to subjugate themselves to god and punish themselves for their own sins. BUT, there is a higher reward is there not? What human would ever inflict so much emotional pain on himself if he didn't believe it was the will of god?

 

[Martin]

You do live without any consequences. You get to sleep around, you get to cheat the poor, you get to treat your neighbors however you like, you get to exploit who ever you want, you get to kill whoever you want. Given, not every atheist/agnostic does but what's to stop them? And If it wasn't for man made laws what would prevent you from doing what ever you wanted?

Except that there is no evidence that shows religious people are more moral than atheists. None. Ever. So guess what, all this is is propaganda that you have injected. That's right, you were LIED TO. It happens.

Your favorite country has the highest rate of atheism in the world according to polls. AND YET THIS IS WHERE YOU WANT TO BE. A very fuzzy estimate of 40-80%. Let's get to your "if it wasn't for man made laws" now, shall we? Tell me, what would happen if atheists were making these laws? Are you claiming in Sweden laws are made entirely by religious people? That seems very unlikely given the number I just gave. So why isn't Sweden a despicable example of moral decay? Who's preventing this? The US? The UN? The EU? Please, do tell.

Let's take another case study. I'm an atheist. I created this forum and I decided the rules for this place all by myself. The current rules are more lenient, but they do still mostly reflect the rules I wrote. So tell me, an immoral atheist running a forum.. what is supposed to be happen? It's not like ANYONE is forcing a forum to be run a certain way. I acted with complete impunity. And this is a place where you hang out now for 5 years. For god's sake, WHY?

To look for a 'creator' is something this is inherent in all humans, if it wasn't we wouldn't have a concept of God.

Exactly, which explains why religion was invented.

Truth always comes out and truth always survives through anything. If some people at one point in history believed in a certain ideology and it did not survive then it didn't hold truth. Greek mythology held no truth to it otherwise it would have survived.

Which truth? Judaism? Christianity? Islam? At any given moment there are thousands of active religions around the world. Which is this truth you speak of? Are they all true?

 

[DelpieroForLife]

I didn't get owned you fucktards.

I'm still waiting for my evidence. Because it's going to take more than "we believe Muhammad was illiterate". No, no, I want to see proof that he was. If I hear you talk, it can't be that hard. So again, here's what I want:

1) Absolute proof that he was illiterate.
2) Absolute proof that he was alone.

Oh and Muhammad profited alright . That the Quran wasn't published in his life time helps my argument, not yours. I know you're a madman Ze, but unlike DPFL, you're not stupid. You know perfectly well what I'm talking about and you know you can't provide what I asked for.

The sad thing is that Islam used to be about knowledge. All you two offer is a very simplistic idea of life, with no reasoning behind it whatsoever. And so I see that Islam is now being used for the exact opposite of the goal it once served..

1) Lets say Mohammed wasn't illiterate and for some reason he decided to hide it and delude everyone by claiming he is illiterate while he isn't.

When did he make that call?

People start to learn reading and writing at 6, so to fake being illiterate Mohammed must have the follwoing plan in mind ALREADY:

* He already planned to educate himself secrecy.
* He already planned not be exposed if he receive help to complete his education.
* He already planned to fake being a God prophet.
* He already planned to write Quran.
* He already knew Quran will be superior to anything Arab ever knew because otherwise no one would believe him.
* He already decided to be patient until he is 40 before he fake being prophet.
* He planned all of this while he was 6-10 years old.

You have to be utter moron to even consider a possibility of Mohammed faking being illiterate when you take what I've mentioned in consideration.

2) Lets say X was helping Mohammed.

The following MUST be true then:

* X invented Quran and helped Mohammed secrecy.
* Mohammed had an agreement with X (or forced him to accept it) to give all credit to Moahmmed and leave X behind scenes.
* Quran wasn't published during Mohammed's life... parts of Quran were added consecutively all over years until before Mohammed's death and since X is the source then Mohammed died before X. as a result Mohammed can NEVER kill X.
* After Mohammed's death X didn't announce himself as the real author or prophet or whatever you call it.
* X accepted to be quiet during Mohammed's life and even after his death earning utter shit of his silent.

Who the fuck is Mr.X? Answer is plain and simple he is a NO ONE and that's the only logical definition of Mr.X.

 

[Seven]

1) Lets say Mohammed wasn't illiterate and for some reason he decided to hide it and delude everyone by claiming he is illiterate while he isn't.

When did he make that call?

People start to learn reading and writing at 6, so to fake being illiterate Mohammed must have the follwoing plan in mind ALREADY:

* He already planned to educate himself secrecy.
* He already planned not be exposed if he receive help to complete his education.
* He already planned to fake being a God prophet.
* He already planned to write Quran.
* He already knew Quran will be superior to anything Arab ever knew because otherwise no one would believe him.
* He already decided to be patient until he is 40 before he fake being prophet.
* He planned all of this while he was 6-10 years old.

You have to be utter moron to even consider a possibility of Mohammed faking being illiterate when you take what I've mentioned in consideration.

2) Lets say X was helping Mohammed.

The following MUST be true then:

* X invented Quran and helped Mohammed secrecy.
* Mohammed had an agreement with X (or forced him to accept it) to give all credit to Moahmmed and leave X behind scenes.
* Quran wasn't published during Mohammed's life... parts of Quran were added consecutively all over years until before Mohammed's death and since X is the source then Mohammed died before X. as a result Mohammed can NEVER kill X.
* After Mohammed's death X didn't announce himself as the real author or prophet or whatever you call it.
* X accepted to be quiet during Mohammed's life and even after his death earning utter shit of his silent.

Who the fuck is Mr.X? Answer is plain and simple he is a NO ONE and that's the only logical definition of Mr.X.

That's not proof. It's strictly circumstantial and most of it is wrong anyway. For example: people did not always learn how to read and write at the age of six back then. A lot of people only learnt how to read and write in adulthood. Given the fact that that basic assumption is completely wrong, all your other points don't really matter. Even if they could be rejected as well.

Now on to mister X. You seem tobe confused here. Muhammad might have given him something, there might have been some deal. Money could have been a possibility. That the Quran was not published before Muhammad's death does not prove that X died after Muhammad did (bear in mind that if it does, it automatically means that there must have been a mister X, which is not what you are trying to prove here).

So basically you have provided me ZERO evidence. You have written down some assumptions, most of which are completely irrelevant to the question at hand. This is not what I asked for. I asked you to prove that:

1) Muhammad was illiterate (you failed glamourously here, by forgetting all about the historical context)

2) Muhammad acted alone (TBH you didn't even really try here. All you said was that he acted alone. Which is an opinion. Not proof).

Even coming from you this was very poor stuff, DPFL. But this is obviously not a fair fight. I am well educated and you are not. Therefore I'm expanding the challenge. If any muslim can prove black on white that these two things are fact, I will become muslim.

 

[DelpieroForLife]

That's not proof. It's strictly circumstantial and most of it is wrong anyway. For example: people did not always learn how to read and write at the age of six back then. A lot of people only learnt how to read and write in adulthood. Given the fact that that basic assumption is completely wrong, all your other points don't really matter. Even if they could be rejected as well.

Now on to mister X. You seem tobe confused here. Muhammad might have given him something, there might have been some deal. Money could have been a possibility. That the Quran was not published before Muhammad's death does not prove that X died after Muhammad did (bear in mind that if it does, it automatically means that there must have been a mister X, which is not what you are trying to prove here).

So basically you have provided me ZERO evidence. You have written down some assumptions, most of which are completely irrelevant to the question at hand. This is not what I asked for. I asked you to prove that:

1) Muhammad was illiterate (you failed glamourously here, by forgetting all about the historical context)

2) Muhammad acted alone (TBH you didn't even really try here. All you said was that he acted alone. Which is an opinion. Not proof).

Even coming from you this was very poor stuff, DPFL. But this is obviously not a fair fight. I am well educated and you are not. Therefore I'm expanding the challenge. If any muslim can prove black on white that these two things are fact, I will become muslim.

1) illiterate.

So it is not 6 right... lets say he was illiterate until he become 35 and then out of a sudden he decided to invent Quran and fake being prophet what difference that would make?

All the below points still APPLY.

* He already planned to educate himself secrecy.
* He already planned not be exposed if he receive help to complete his education.
* He already planned to fake being a God prophet.
* He already planned to write Quran.
* He already knew Quran will be superior to anything Arab ever knew because otherwise no one would believe him.
* He already decided to be patient until he is 40 before he fake being prophet.

How can you deny all of these?

2) Alone.

Deal... are you insane? What deal would Mr.X consider in return to name Mohammed a God prophet helping him to rule the entire Arab land in the process?

Why can't you understand the very simple fact that X must have died after Mohammed if X is the author of Quran? This is the last time I'll explain it to you dumbass.

* X invented Quran.
* Parts of Quran were added consecutively until before Mohammed's death.
* X can't die before Mohammed otherwise Mohammed won't be able to complete Quran.

And why exactly if X die after Mohammed there must be X? can you explain it using your moronic logic?

Educated

No one is educated outside Belgium, I'm illiterate... not a faked one.

 

[DelpieroForLife]

That's not proof. It's strictly circumstantial and most of it is wrong anyway. For example: people did not always learn how to read and write at the age of six back then. A lot of people only learnt how to read and write in adulthood. Given the fact that that basic assumption is completely wrong, all your other points don't really matter. Even if they could be rejected as well.

Now on to mister X. You seem tobe confused here. Muhammad might have given him something, there might have been some deal. Money could have been a possibility. That the Quran was not published before Muhammad's death does not prove that X died after Muhammad did (bear in mind that if it does, it automatically means that there must have been a mister X, which is not what you are trying to prove here).

So basically you have provided me ZERO evidence. You have written down some assumptions, most of which are completely irrelevant to the question at hand. This is not what I asked for. I asked you to prove that:

1) Muhammad was illiterate (you failed glamourously here, by forgetting all about the historical context)

2) Muhammad acted alone (TBH you didn't even really try here. All you said was that he acted alone. Which is an opinion. Not proof).

Even coming from you this was very poor stuff, DPFL. But this is obviously not a fair fight. I am well educated and you are not. Therefore I'm expanding the challenge. If any muslim can prove black on white that these two things are fact, I will become muslim.

Please don't, we have enough retarded people already.

Mohammed faked being illiterate and he was helped by <insert a name of Mr.X>.

 

[Seven]

1) illiterate.

So it is not 6 right... lets say he was illiterate until he become 35 and then out of a sudden he decided to invent Quran and fake being prophet what difference that would make?

All the below points still APPLY.

* He already planned to educate himself secrecy.
* He already planned not be exposed if he receive help to complete his education.
* He already planned to fake being a God prophet.
* He already planned to write Quran.
* He already knew Quran will be superior to anything Arab ever knew because otherwise no one would believe him.
* He already decided to be patient until he is 40 before he fake being prophet.

How can you deny all of these?

2) Alone.

Deal... are you insane? What deal would Mr.X consider in return to name Mohammed a God prophet helping him to rule the entire Arab land in the process?

Why can't you understand the very simple fact that X must have died after Mohammed if X is the author of Quran? This is the last time I'll explain it to you dumbass.

* X invented Quran.
* Parts of Quran were added consecutively until before Mohammed's death.
* X can't die before Mohammed otherwise Mohammed won't be able to complete Quran.

And why exactly if X die after Mohammed there must be X? can you explain it using your moronic logic?

Educated

No one is educated outside Belgium, I'm illiterate... not a faked one.

1) The difference between 6 and 35 is monumental. A six year old couldn't invent such a plan, whereas if you're 35..

You might want to take out "already". Makes you look pretty stupid. It was also not necessarily a plan in the beginning. Things might have turned out that way. It doesn't even matter. You're not providing any evidence. You say this is one of the most outrageous claims ever, yet you are unable to provide any evidence which proves it is outrageous. Now there's something that makes all of this very difficult for you. There's an historical example:

Joseph Smith.

You're a muslim, so you have to believe Joseph Smith invented these things. What makes you so certain Muhammad didn't do the same?

2) X could have had many motives. I mentioned money. I could also mention power. You are again unable to prove that these motives are impossible. X could also be replaced by another writer. Either way, still not a shred of evidence.

 

[DelpieroForLife]

1) You might want to take out "already". Makes you look pretty stupid. It was also not necessarily a plan in the beginning. Things might have turned out that way. It doesn't even matter. You're not providing any evidence. You say this is one of the most outrageous claims ever, yet you are unable to provide any evidence which proves it is outrageous. Now there's something that makes all of this very difficult for you. There's an historical example:

Joseph Smith.

You're a muslim, so you have to believe Joseph Smith invented these things. What makes you so certain Muhammad didn't do the same?

2) X could have had many motives. I mentioned money. I could also mention power. You are again unable to prove that these motives are impossible. X could also be replaced by another writer. Either way, still not a shred of evidence.

1) It MUST be a plan... one won't fake being illiterate just for the sake of it, your logic sounds more and more moronic with every single post you add.

BTW can you prove your mother can't speak Chinese Mandarin?

Why I'm sure Mohammed didn't invent Quran?

I'll put it simply in a way your narrow mind can understand, Mohammed CAN'T invent Quran because it is NOT possible no matter what help he might manage to receive.

2) Another writer

Once again you prove you know utter shit about the subject you are discussing... learn and read more is the only advice I can offer.... because if you wanna be an ass at least be an educated ass.

 

[Seven]

Again, no proof. Why is it so hard for you to understand what I want? And why are you so naive? And you calling me narrowminded is just rich. I mean, if there's one of us who can't think outside the box it's you.

My mother does speak Chinese Mandarin.

1) Muhammad was illiterate. I want PROOF.
2) Muhammad acted alone. I want PROOF.

Oh, and I have provided proof for my opinion by the way. The well known case of Joseph Smith. You might want to check that out first.

And about education: what is your education? What do you do in life?

 

[DelpieroForLife]

Again, no proof. Why is it so hard for you to understand what I want? And why are you so naive? And you calling me narrowminded is just rich. I mean, if there's one of us who can't think outside the box it's you.

My mother does speak Chinese Mandarin.

1) Muhammad was illiterate. I want PROOF.
2) Muhammad acted alone. I want PROOF.

Oh, and I have provided proof for my opinion by the way. The well known case of Joseph Smith. You might want to check that out first.

You are narrowminded in an extremely unimaginable way! Mandarin was a freaking example.

Using your lame logic of denial... Can you prove your mother can't speak the following (Arabic, Abaza, Angika and Yazdi)?

 

[Seven]

You are narrowminded in an extremely unimaginable way! Mandarin was a freaking example.

Using your lame logic of denial... Can you prove your mother can't speak the following (Arabic, Abaza, Angika and Yazdi)?

You see that?

You just believed my mother speaks Mandarin.

Jesus Christ

And I can by the way. Any woman will react if you call her a whore, especially your own mother. All I have to do is look up the word for whore and say it to her. If she reacts, she speaks the language. That's how easy it is.

But the burden of evidence is not on me, it's on you. And so for you have offered me nothing. Let us begin with Joseph Smith.

 

[DelpieroForLife]

Again, no proof. Why is it so hard for you to understand what I want? And why are you so naive? And you calling me narrowminded is just rich. I mean, if there's one of us who can't think outside the box it's you.

My mother does speak Chinese Mandarin.

1) Muhammad was illiterate. I want PROOF.
2) Muhammad acted alone. I want PROOF.

Oh, and I have provided proof for my opinion by the way. The well known case of Joseph Smith. You might want to check that out first.

And about education: what is your education? What do you do in life?

Why ask when you already accused me of being uneducated?

Anyway.... I hold a Bachelor Degree in IT (Networking and Systems Specialist) and Master in an Advanced Telecommunication, I run my own business (Networking and Systems Consulting / Professional Service Provider).

 

[DelpieroForLife]

You see that?

You just believed my mother speaks Mandarin.

Jesus Christ

And I can by the way. Any woman will react if you call her a whore, especially your own mother. All I have to do is look up the word for whore and say it to her. If she reacts, she speaks the language. That's how easy it is.

But the burden of evidence is not on me, it's on you. And so for you have offered me nothing. Let us begin with Joseph Smith.

SMS your mother with the following "&#1571;&#1606;&#1578; &#1588;&#1585;&#1605;&#1608;&#1591;&#1577;".

Even if she knows what whore is in other languages means does this automatically makes her speak the language? We all know bad words of other languages but can we speak the language?

What has Mohammed faking being illiterate to do with Joseph Smith FFS?

 

[Seven]

Look up what Josep Smith did.

You'll see what I'm talking about.


By the way you asked me to prove she didn't speak the language. Not to prove she did. Cretino.

 

[DelpieroForLife]

Look up what Josep Smith did.

You'll see what I'm talking about.


By the way you asked me to prove she didn't speak the language. Not to prove she did. Cretino.

I know

 

[DelpieroForLife]

Look up what Josep Smith did.

You'll see what I'm talking about.


By the way you asked me to prove she didn't speak the language. Not to prove she did. Cretino.

You are basically comparing Book of Mormon to Quran?

 

[Raz]

You are basically comparing Book of Mormon to Quran?

And whats the difference between them? Could you please explain me the underlying difference?