what do u know about islam? (3 Viewers)

[bahraini]

OK IM OUT OF HERE
I'LL COME TOMORROW
AND CONTINUE MY THREAD AGAIN , AFTER ALL THAT MESS STOP
AND IF U DIDN'T I'LL BITE UR NOSES

i know its very nice argument
but it turned far away about what i wanted to focus on


see ya guys

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[Slagathor]

++ [ originally posted by *aca* ] ++
Erik, i belive that denying death is denying life.

Life is a circle. It starts, it devlops & it finishes. If it never ends, it wouldnt be a circle. We have our "role" on earth (regardless is there is "afterlife" or not). Put in simple words, we all want to make our living better. Believeing that there is something we can/should do for the sake of a reward in afterlife, is living in fear.

Fear of God, fear of death, Fear of life. Lifespan is short (in the terms of universe) and i believe that there are many things that we are ought to think of before dedicating our scarce resource called time on something that might or might not be. I have to think about making my life and life of PPL that are dependent on me better while I'm here. Here i can do something to make things right. I know this for certain. MAYBE i can do something from "other" side, when i leave my mortal body. But that is maybe. At least as the things stand now.

Ah see, but believing in a religion is by no means living in fear. Not for me anyway but perhaps that's because I don't agree with a lot the church says.

So despite your unquestionable faith in physics, you don't rule out an afterlife? Cause that's what you're saying here. Do I sense a need for hope? Hope that death is not the end?

 

[Zlatan]

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++


exactly
We muslims believe that God does not need us at all as you said, We need him, but dont you think that saying "that's why religion came to exist" isn't a strong enough argument to suggest that god doesn't exist.

Muslims believe that we need god, but we still should worship him and live life in obidience to his orders.

With all do respect to you , i dont see how things are just 'here.'
i look at the stars, nature and the whole universe and just can't imagine that these things are just 'here.' somebody must have created them. but then again, what is nothing!?!
if the universe is a vast area of Space with galaxies, and the universie is created, then, what's outside of this universe?!! it's imposible to comprehend. doesn't this suggest that there is the one devine creator who is of nothing of this world who no rules apply to.

SO you think that nothing can just be here, without someone creating it? Thats what i think too, and I truly dont know how everything came to existence, but let me ask you one thing: If nothing can simply exist, just be there, if everything has to be creaded, or born like we humans are, than how can God exist? Every book, Qur'an, Bible, Tora, says that God is one, that he had no creator higher than him, how can he simply exist? It defiens humen logic that something can simply exist, including God. If God can just ewxist, why cant the Universe too. Religion says that God is all around us. What if God is infact the Universe? That we exist and depent on him (universe) but he can not actually do anything to affect our lives.

Alex: the whats outside the Universe is - Universe. By definition The Universe is all matter everywhere, so everything thats outside the universe is infact the universe, or that they are two parts of the Universe, as there is only one universe.

Definition: All matter and energy, including the earth, the galaxies, and the contents of intergalactic space, regarded as a whole.

Can I get my honorary membership now?

 

[CuTe-17]

Guys i am leaving,,,my head is going to exploooode...

bbye

 

[Majed]

++ [ originally posted by bahraini ] ++
OK IM OUT OF HERE
I'LL COME TOMORROW
AND CONTINUE MY THREAD AGAIN , AFTER ALL THAT MESS STOP
AND IF U DIDN'T I'LL BITE UR NOSES

i know its very nice argument
but it turned far away about what i wanted to focus on


see ya guys

take it easy man havn't you learned that with the likes of Tom, Martin and I joining a thread, it's bound to go way off topic towadrs a scientific (Mattin and I) / wierd useless (Tom) topic?

 

[*aca*]

++ [ originally posted by Erik ] ++


Ah see, but believing in a religion is by no means living in fear. Not for me anyway but perhaps that's because I don't agree with a lot the church says.

So despite your unquestionable faith in physics, you don't rule out an afterlife? Cause that's what you're saying here. Do I sense a need for hope? Hope that death is not the end?

Thats not what i said.

I'm saying that I'm not ignoring that there is a POSIBILITY that there is something after death. I can not prove that there is not, i can not prove that there is.

But i know that I am here, now. Corgito ergo Sum, if you want. And thats why what happens after is the least of my concerns. (in the respect that i worry what will hapen with me after i die). In more philosophical manner, I'm very interested in thinking and discussing it. But not in the "religious" sense

 

[*aca*]

and believeing in any of the "official" religions is living in fear.

 

[Tom]

++ [ originally posted by The_G_O_A_T ] ++
Alex: the whats outside the Universe is - Universe. By definition The Universe is all matter everywhere, so everything thats outside the universe is infact the universe, or that they are two parts of the Universe, as there is only one universe.

Definition: All matter and energy, including the earth, the galaxies, and the contents of intergalactic space, regarded as a whole.

Can I get my honorary membership now?

it is physically impossible for anything to exist beyond the universe barring a vacuum. You classed the universe as all matter everywhere, which i am willing to agree with, but you also said that anything beyond the universe is considered part of it. Here I disagree as i don't believe a perfect vacuum can be said to be matter.

 

[CuTe-17]

BYE ERIK,C U TOMORROW and good night,,,,


bye martin and bye tom...

good night u all...

 

[Slagathor]

Goodnight!

++ [ originally posted by *aca* ] ++
and believeing in any of the "official" religions is living in fear.

Well, that don't include me

++ [ originally posted by *aca* ] ++


Thats not what i said.

I'm saying that I'm not ignoring that there is a POSIBILITY that there is something after death. I can not prove that there is not, i can not prove that there is.

But i know that I am here, now. Corgito ergo Sum, if you want. And thats why what happens after is the least of my concerns. (in the respect that i worry what will hapen with me after i die). In more philosophical manner, I'm very interested in thinking and discussing it. But not in the "religious" sense

We're quoting Descartes now?

You say you don't really think about a possible afterlife but has the whole issue never been rubbed in your face by a case of death nearby? Are there no basic 'statements' you've come to have over time about this subject?

 

[Zlatan]

++ [ originally posted by Erik ] ++


I understand where you're coming from here and, believe it or not, I actually agree with a large part.

And yes, of course we have to keep discovering, keep moving, keep going forward and keep evolving. Standing still equals going backwards no matter what religion you exercise or if you don't believe in anything spiritual.

But let's skip the bigger picture and focus on personal lives, what do you do when, for instance, a close relative dies of cancer? Do you mourn for a brief period, say "oh well, it's a disease, it's nature" and then move on?

Can you honestly say to me that you believe that when we die, we disappear? That that's it? Do you really believe that?

Because, after all, that's physics. When we die, our bodies disappear, dissolve, vanish.

This is raising the question about the existance of a soul. Most religious people believe that every man has a unique soul, but let me ask you this: A few thousanf years ago when they were only a few million people, lets say they all had unique souls. Now what happens to the souls of their children? There are 6 billion people in the world now, and they all originated from thos few million/thousand/hundred. So how did they get their souls? Did their parents pass on thair souls as one, or are there just a few billion souls waiting as backup for those that havent been born yet?

 

[CuTe-17]

ooh..and bye to Majed too...

sorry i forgot u...

good night,....

 

[Majed]

++ [ originally posted by The_G_O_A_T ] ++


SO you think that nothing can just be here, without someone creating it? Thats what i think too, and I truly dont know how everything came to existence, but let me ask you one thing: If nothing can simply exist, just be there, if everything has to be creaded, or born like we humans are, than how can God exist? Every book, Qur'an, Bible, Tora, says that God is one, that he had no creator higher than him, how can he simply exist? It defiens humen logic that something can simply exist, including God. If God can just ewxist, why cant the Universe too. Religion says that God is all around us. What if God is infact the Universe? That we exist and depent on him (universe) but he can not actually do anything to affect our lives.

Alex: the whats outside the Universe is - Universe. By definition The Universe is all matter everywhere, so everything thats outside the universe is infact the universe, or that they are two parts of the Universe, as there is only one universe.

Definition: All matter and energy, including the earth, the galaxies, and the contents of intergalactic space, regarded as a whole.

Can I get my honorary membership now?

Exactly!!! Nothing can exists all on it's own, so we can assume that one devine force (God allmighty) created all of this. in our human logic, you say that how can God exists?
My answer: because our Human Logic doesn't apply to God. it's beyond our comprehention. got made a limit for our thinking capability. after all, God created us. It's the only way to explain that we are created and that the creator-createe loop can make sense.

If us humans are just 'here,' than nothing makes sense at all because 'our' world is all about logic.

 

[Tom]

adios delpiero17

 

[Zlatan]

++ [ originally posted by del_piero17 ] ++


u r right...

life is like a big exam and u have to pass it by believing in GOD and accepting the way that u were born in becuase this is how it's ment to be..u can't change that fact..

but u have to fight for it..u have to fight to believe or else, u will never know..




I AM NOT SAYING THAT JUST FOR U..IT'S FOR EVERYONE..

But I do not believe, because I dont want to believe. I think today I actually have to fight not to believe.

 

[Majed]

++ [ originally posted by del_piero17 ] ++
ooh..and bye to Majed too...

sorry i forgot u...

good night,....

good night ...sweet dreams

 

[Tom]

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++
God created us. It's the only way to explain that we are created and that the creator-createe loop can make sense.

I disagree I don't think there has been a single good explanation for how we came to exist. Certainly not the creation theory IMO

 

[Slagathor]

++ [ originally posted by The_G_O_A_T ] ++
This is raising the question about the existance of a soul. Most religious people believe that every man has a unique soul, but let me ask you this: A few thousanf years ago when they were only a few million people, lets say they all had unique souls. Now what happens to the souls of their children? There are 6 billion people in the world now, and they all originated from thos few million/thousand/hundred. So how did they get their souls? Did their parents pass on thair souls as one, or are there just a few billion souls waiting as backup for those that havent been born yet?

See, what you're doing here is indirectly insinuating that there is such a thing as reincarnation and that heaven or hell don't exist in any way.

Truth is, I don't know. I believe that the souls of children inherit some of the characterisitics of the souls of their parents, just like the body of a child inherits genetic characteristics of the parents' bodies.

Where souls go after the body fails? I don't know. Maybe there are a heaven and a hell but if there are, I doubt they are anything like what the main religions want you to think, those views are far too abstract for my liking.

I do believe, however, that there are places similar to a heaven and a hell.

 

[Zlatan]

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++


Exactly!!! Nothing can exists all on it's own, so we can assume that one devine force (God allmighty) created all of this. in our human logic, you say that how can God exists?
My answer: because our Human Logic doesn't apply to God. it's beyond our comprehention. got made a limit for our thinking capability. after all, God created us. It's the only way to explain that we are created and that the creator-createe loop can make sense.

If us humans are just 'here,' than nothing makes sense at all because 'our' world is all about logic.

But why should one logic apply to the world but not to God? If he exists, why shouldnt we ask for proof, for an exoplanation?

Most religions are about "just believe, dont ask any questions, everything is as it is because God wants it to be like that" and that is exactly why I dont believe.

You could argue, which I wont, that religion is actually a way of control, and the God is actually The Man trying to control us.

 

[*aca*]

++ [ originally posted by Erik ] ++
Goodnight!
Well, that don't include me


We're quoting Descartes now?

You say you don't really think about a possible afterlife but has the whole issue never been rubbed in your face by a case of death nearby? Are there no basic 'statements' you've come to have over time about this subject?

Than you are not a believer. Major religions are by nature prescriptive. You have set of rules which you have to follow in order to avoid God's punishment. You follow the rules because you believe that you are will be gaining prosperity in afterlife, as opposed to being punished for your acts on earth. You fear God, you fear the punishment. If there is no fear, there is no reason to follow the rules. (this sounds blant, but discussing it would really go completly off topic)

I have to admit that i have problem understanding second part of your post. I was born & raised in yugoslavia and things have been rubbed in my face that wouldnt be described simple as "death nearby". I do have my oppinion about afterlife, which was more or less discussed here, but those are just thoughts and ideas which are subject to change. Nothing is cast in stone.