what do u know about islam? (2 Viewers)

[Martin]

++ [ originally posted by Erik ] ++
So what DO you use as support?

Well, usually friends and family I guess.

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[*aca*]

++ [ originally posted by Erik ] ++
Don't you find some comfort in the belief that there is something greater than us, something that works on our planet with great force but in mysterious ways?

Because I, for one, have seen some things I cannot explain and the belief that there is some reason for it, eventhough I and no scientist or doctor knows it, has helped me carry on more than once.

Comfort? Yes. Thats easy.

But our nature is to explore. Our nature is to go further. Our nature is to ask WHY & HOW. Our nature wants us to figure things out.

If that was not our nature, we wouldnt have reached further than neanderthal (spelling?) level. Why would we?

5 mayor religions of today are more or less at least 1400 years old. I can not accept that the ultimate truth was discovered then and that nothing changed since. I'm not trying to say that it is not possible. Maybe one of them (or all of them ) are absolutely correct in their teachings. Maybe they do hold absolute truth (if there is one ). But it is impossible to say. The claim on absoulte truth by various religions around the world brought as much pain & misery to PPL as good.

Thinking or believening that there is "higher force" that is not explainable today is ok, taking comfort in it is not. "higher force" can be explained in many ways. Why accepting, without questioning one plausibe (if so) explanation and ignoring others? Religion, science, economy all lay claim to explain our past, present & future. For investigative mind that humans as species have, they do not provide an answer, and they might never will. Our purpose is to take further steps in explaining, even if our purpose is the quest itself.

 

[Martin]

Hehe, a great visionary you are, aca

 

[bahraini]

++ [ originally posted by The_G_O_A_T ] ++


Exactly. Most people, especially before "modern time" were willing to fight and die for their religion, because it was the only one thats right, thats real, thats better than other. But in fact, if you had been born in say Egypt you would be a Muslim, in Israel a JEw, etc. You dont choose religion because you want to, you do it because it's wanted of you to.

many people change their rligions.

and if you want to ask what the use of rilgions,
they put the first rules in life , which most of modren rules
was out of them..
also it tells us the way for heaven or hell,
so we can choose where to go , so when the Judgment day comes , there will be no excuse for us why we went to the wrong way .

or what do u think mate?

 

[Martin]

bahraini, in my opinion religion is *very* useful in terms of setting the basic rules of ethics. It's more than believing in God, it has lots of rules and guidelines for our daily lives. And that alone is why I think it's a valuable resource, even if you don't believe.

 

[bahraini]

PLEASE GUYS
WOULD U STOP THIS .
IT'S TOTALLY OUT OF THE SUBJECT AND IT WILL
LEAD US TO NO WHERE
ALSO I PROMISED ERIK TO STOP ANY ARGUMENTS
CUZ I CLEARED MY POINT FOR THIS THREAD
SO WILL HELP ME PLZ?

 

[*aca*]

bahraini, dont get upset

I think that the thread is doing fine so far....

Question to believers here.

Are you ready to question what you believe in? Are you questioning your beliefs ar taking them for granted for ehat they are?

 

[Tom]

++ [ originally posted by Erik ] ++
What? I used a wrong word? :undecide:

nono, I just wasn't sure of the term, I remember I used to have to fill out forms and I had to put 'non religious' didn't realise there was a word like that.

 

[Slagathor]

++ [ originally posted by *aca* ] ++
Comfort? Yes. Thats easy.

But our nature is to explore. Our nature is to go further. Our nature is to ask WHY & HOW. Our nature wants us to figure things out.

If that was not our nature, we wouldnt have reached further than neanderthal (spelling?) level. Why would we?

5 mayor religions of today are more or less at least 1400 years old. I can not accept that the ultimate truth was discovered then and that nothing changed since. I'm not trying to say that it is not possible. Maybe one of them (or all of them ) are absolutely correct in their teachings. Maybe they do hold absolute truth (if there is one ). But it is impossible to say. The claim on absoulte truth by various religions around the world brought as much pain & misery to PPL as good.

Thinking or believening that there is "higher force" that is not explainable today is ok, taking comfort in it is not. "higher force" can be explained in many ways. Why accepting, without questioning one plausibe (if so) explanation and ignoring others? Religion, science, economy all lay claim to explain our past, present & future. For investigative mind that humans as species have, they do not provide an answer, and they might never will. Our purpose is to take further steps in explaining, even if our purpose is the quest itself.

I understand where you're coming from here and, believe it or not, I actually agree with a large part.

And yes, of course we have to keep discovering, keep moving, keep going forward and keep evolving. Standing still equals going backwards no matter what religion you exercise or if you don't believe in anything spiritual.

But let's skip the bigger picture and focus on personal lives, what do you do when, for instance, a close relative dies of cancer? Do you mourn for a brief period, say "oh well, it's a disease, it's nature" and then move on?

Can you honestly say to me that you believe that when we die, we disappear? That that's it? Do you really believe that?

Because, after all, that's physics. When we die, our bodies disappear, dissolve, vanish.

 

[Majed]

++ [ originally posted by The_G_O_A_T ] ++


I believe thats the point. That God and religion did not and does not need us, it' the other way around, people need God , and thats why religion came to exist: because of the huma need to get through tough time, problems by thinking it's out of their control, that it's the will of a supreme being.

exactly
We muslims believe that God does not need us at all as you said, We need him, but dont you think that saying "that's why religion came to exist" isn't a strong enough argument to suggest that god doesn't exist.

Muslims believe that we need god, but we still should worship him and live life in obidience to his orders.

With all do respect to you , i dont see how things are just 'here.'
i look at the stars, nature and the whole universe and just can't imagine that these things are just 'here.' somebody must have created them. but then again, what is nothing!?!

if the universe is a vast area of Space with galaxies, and the universie is created, then, what's outside of this universe?!! it's imposible to comprehend. doesn't this suggest that there is the one devine creator who is of nothing of this world who no rules apply to.

 

[Zlatan]

++ [ originally posted by bahraini ] ++



many people change their rligions.

and if you want to ask what the use of rilgions,
they put the first rules in life , which most of modren rules
was out of them..
also it tells us the way for heaven or hell,
so we can choose where to go , so when the Judgment day comes , there will be no excuse for us why we went to the wrong way .

or what do u think mate?

I think the Religious books are in a way only laws, much like todays laws: Do not kill/steal... or you'll go to hell - don not kill/steal... or you'll go to jail.

It's the same idea: Obey the laws or you will be punished.

P.S. Dont you find it unusual how many atheists there are today compared to say 500 years ago? I explain it by the development of civilisation, where in modern day humans have the resources and abilities to take care of themselves to change their destiny, hence no need to believe in something that controls their lives.

 

[CuTe-17]

++ [ originally posted by The_G_O_A_T ] ++


Exactly. Most people, especially before "modern time" were willing to fight and die for their religion, because it was the only one thats right, thats real, thats better than other. But in fact, if you had been born in say Egypt you would be a Muslim, in Israel a JEw, etc. You dont choose religion because you want to, you do it because it's wanted of you to .

u r right...

life is like a big exam and u have to pass it by believing in GOD and accepting the way that u were born in becuase this is how it's ment to be..u can't change that fact..

but u have to fight for it..u have to fight to believe or else, u will never know..




I AM NOT SAYING THAT JUST FOR U..IT'S FOR EVERYONE..

 

[Slagathor]

++ [ originally posted by Paolo_Montero ] ++
nono, I just wasn't sure of the term, I remember I used to have to fill out forms and I had to put 'non religious' didn't realise there was a word like that.

OK good - was afraid I insulted anyone there. Wouldn't be the first time I accidently use one word but it turns out to mean something completely different

 

[Martin]

++ [ originally posted by Majed ] ++
exactly
We muslims believe that God does not need us at all as you said, We need him, but dont you think that saying "that's why religion came to exist" isn't a strong enough argument to suggest that god doesn't exist.

Muslims believe that we need god, but we still should worship him and live life in obidience to his orders.

With all do respect to you , i dont see how things are just 'here.'
i look at the stars, nature and the whole universe and just can't imagine that these things are just 'here.' somebody must have created them. but then again, what is nothing!?!

if the universe is a vast area of Space with galaxies, and the universie is created, then, what's outside of this universe?!! it's imposible to comprehend. doesn't this suggest that there is the one devine creator who is of nothing of this world who no rules apply to.

Now we're talking I hereby offer a reward of honorary forum member to anyone who can tell me what is outside the universe (and prove it).

 

[Majed]

++ [ originally posted by Paolo_Montero ] ++


so thats what we're called these days..

I would always find it hard to study physics and be religious in any depth. Its possible, but so many things in life can be explained there are few questions left unanswered , hence there is no real need for religion, for me anyway.

Actually, i've heard any scientist say this.

I've always heard that the more they discover, the more questions arise.

 

[Tom]

can't be done Martin, nobody knows. I personally think it is simply a perfect vacuum, but I don't really have uch in the way of proving it, beyond thinking what was there before the big bang?

 

[*aca*]

++ [ originally posted by Erik ] ++
But let's skip the bigger picture and focus on personal lives, what do you do when, for instance, a close relative dies of cancer? Do you mourn for a brief period, say "oh well, it's a disease, it's nature" and then move on?

Can you honestly say to me that you believe that when we die, we disappear? That that's it? Do you really believe that?

Because, after all, that's physics. When we die, our bodies disappear, dissolve, vanish.

Erik, i belive that denying death is denying life.

Life is a circle. It starts, it devlops & it finishes. If it never ends, it wouldnt be a circle. We have our "role" on earth (regardless is there is "afterlife" or not). Put in simple words, we all want to make our living better. Believeing that there is something we can/should do for the sake of a reward in afterlife, is living in fear.

Fear of God, fear of death, Fear of life. Lifespan is short (in the terms of universe) and i believe that there are many things that we are ought to think of before dedicating our scarce resource called time on something that might or might not be. I have to think about making my life and life of PPL that are dependent on me better while I'm here. Here i can do something to make things right. I know this for certain. MAYBE i can do something from "other" side, when i leave my mortal body. But that is maybe. At least as the things stand now.

 

[Martin]

++ [ originally posted by Paolo_Montero ] ++
can't be done Martin, nobody knows. I personally think it is simply a perfect vacuum, but I don't really have uch in the way of proving it, beyond thinking what was there before the big bang?

Scratch that, just assume there was a big bang and everything happened as a result of it. The universe is infinite. But what is beyond that limit? Endless vacuum? And beyond that?

 

[Tom]

aah but the universe is not infinite, it is still expanding, it has a finite mass and a finite volume, both of which are not known naturally

 

[*aca*]

++ [ originally posted by Alex ] ++
And beyond that?

Human imagination?

Because bottom line, religion, science, philosphy they all come out of there. Someone's imagination can be more apealing than other