What Are You Doing Right Now? (166 Viewers)

[pitbull]

I know guys, fucking disgusting.

By the way, there's only one publisher here that lets you have the money. They pay everything and they give you 10% of the profit. That literally means 0.7e per book sold. WHich is also disgusting.

I wouldn't mind making my name out of it, or at least try it. I'd even accept no profit if they cover the expenses. It seems there's no way to publish anything by myself if I don't end up paying a heavy sum for it. And they take half of the profit



I literally know nobody who reads e-books here. I myself don't but that's not even the point. THAT thing is not popular here and I already I wouldn't sell any, unlike print version which people love a lot more.

Oh and also, publishing e-book in Serbian would be even a bigger disaster.

How much would you have to pay per book to release them and keep most of the profits?

IMO that's just how it works in these lines of work, if it was an easy road everyone would want to be an artist not to work as a cashier or plumber. To become a successful professional musician or an actor in a theatre you also have to dedicate hundreds and thousands of hours before you start reaping any serious fruits and that's hardly a guarantee that you will reap any fruits at all.

 

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[Seven]

How much would you have to pay per book to release them and keep most of the profits?

IMO that's just how it works in these lines of work, if it was an easy road everyone would want to be an artist not to work as a cashier or plumber. To become a successful professional musician or an actor in a theatre you also have to dedicate hundreds and thousands of hours before you start reaping any serious fruits and that's hardly a guarantee that you will reap any fruits at all.

That's not how it works. There would be 0 risk involved for the publisher, while they get half of the potentional profits. That makes no sense.

 

[pitbull]

That's not how it works. There would be 0 risk involved for the publisher, while they get half of the potentional profits. That makes no sense.

But obviously that's how it works in that particular market where the amount of writers clearly exceed the demand for books. If it wasn't so, publishers would be more concerned about losing a potential asset.

For 2 years I took a road to become an opera singer and trust me, it takes a lot of dedication, sacrifice and years of lack of money to pull it off. I gave it up understanding that I'd need to climb the first steps of the ladder for like 6-8 years more and that I want to provide for my family without working 2 jobs for the next decade. It would seem that not a lot of people are interested in this kind of deal, yet the competition is super fierce and there are many talented guys going at it, because it's one of those jobs everyone would love to do. I believe it's similar for writers, actors etc

 

[Monty]

Print a few copies and send it around to generate some buzz...then maybe run a kickstarter campaign to raise some funds
@Dostoevsky

 

[Seven]

But obviously that's how it works in that particular market where the amount of writers clearly exceed the demand for books. If it wasn't so, publishers would be more concerned about losing a potential asset.

For 2 years I took a road to become an opera singer and trust me, it takes a lot of dedication, sacrifice and years of lack of money to pull it off. I gave it up understanding that I'd need to climb the first steps of the ladder for like 6-8 years more and that I want to provide for my family without working 2 jobs for the next decade. It would seem that not a lot of people are interested in this kind of deal, yet the competition is super fierce and there are many talented guys going at it, because it's one of those jobs everyone would love to do. I believe it's similar for writers, actors etc

Sure. But that's not the issue here. The role of a publisher is to take the financial risk of publishing. Because a publisher has more capital than a writer, he is able to take that risk. Obviously nothing is free though and in exchange for that financial risk, the publisher gets part of the profit.

If the publisher isn't paying the cost of publishing, he's not really doing anything. So why on Earth would you give him part of the profit?

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Print a few copies and send it around to generate some buzz...then maybe run a kickstarter campaign to raise some funds
@Dostoevsky

@Dostoevsky, you should tell the world you have spent the better part of the last 10 years sodomizing stillborn children, but now you have also written a book in an effort to gain enough money to have stillborn children from all over the world flown to Serbia.

 

[pitbull]

Sure. But that's not the issue here. The role of a publisher is to take the financial risk of publishing. Because a publisher has more capital than a writer, he is able to take that risk. Obviously nothing is free though and in exchange for that financial risk, the publisher gets part of the profit.

If the publisher isn't paying the cost of publishing, he's not really doing anything. So why on Earth would you give him part of the profit?

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@Dostoevsky, you should tell the world you have spent the better part of the last 10 years sodomizing stillborn children, but now you have also written a book in an effort to gain enough money to have stillborn children from all over the world flown to Serbia.

The publisher offers those shitty terms because other writers probably agree to something similar, I don't think every publisher in Serbia have secretely agreed to make fun of Dusan. My guess is it's probably a lot cheaper to put together, print and distribute a book through a publisher not by yourself + you reach a broader audience at first.

What Im trying to say Dusan is that it's not so much Serbia thats fucked as the whole job market when it comes to artist professions, it's the same elsewhere too, too many people willing to do everything for nothing

 

[Seven]

The publisher offers those shitty terms because other writers probably agree to something similar, I don't think every publisher in Serbia have secretely agreed to make fun of Dusan. My guess is it's probably a lot cheaper to put together, print and distribute a book through a publisher not by yourself + you reach a broader audience at first

Or... They're just ripping him off.

 

[Dostoevsky]

First time I hear about it. But I just heard about Createspace too.

I... like it.

The one thing that I don't like is this: shipping. It seems I'd have to pay $17.99 (10 coppies) to get books in 31 business days.

That's ordering my own book. It takes 31 business days to get here? That sounds weird and a lot, no?

 

[DAiDEViL]

Don't know about createspace, but books on Amazon, sold through amazon, usually ship for free afaik.

 

[Dostoevsky]

Don't know about createspace, but books on Amazon, sold through amazon, usually ship for free afaik.

I can't browse right now, can you see how many days for the shipping?

 

[DAiDEViL]

Bought a few selfpublished paperback books through amazon and they didn't take longer than a normal one, but i don't know if they were in stock or had to be printed first. Will have a look at it later.

You might find this article interesting:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/deborahljacobs/2014/04/25/how-to-self-publish-your-book-through-amazon/#13755e5a44d3

Didn't know createspace also belongs to amazon.

 

[IliveForJuve]

I'd have that book translated to English and sold on Amazon US

Of course that means more money invested and more risk but you'll never get a chicken if you don't risk an egg.

 

[Post Ironic]

Oh, the let down.

So I started getting replies on the e-mails that I sent for publishing my book. I'm getting more and more answers (and info from others) that publishing houses want direct money to cover all of the expenses for publishing. Then, they also take 50% of the profit from which they sell the same book. It seems barely anybody wants to pay on their own, but want author to do so.

It got me thinking. And what a piece of shit. Just lately I saw a woman publish a book. She's older and a director in Montenegro. I saw her promotion and I was like "oh, she's got family, high position, and now a book... damn". And today it turns out that a publishing house that got her book our made a reply to me saying how I need to invest all the money. No wonder literature is dead over here, despite us having one of the best writers in the history (or just amazing). In the end the quality of the book barely even matters cause you have to write it and without thinking just pay for it to get published? What a new low. No wonder Coelho is one the most read authors nowadays. Seriously disgusting. And now I might face a nothing because my parents can't invest into such thing (while selling books wouldn't even make a tiny profit out of it).

This is just the nature of the industry. It's the same here in Canada. Many publishing houses won't even let you submit works to them unsolicited, many more without having an agent, and the vast vast majority without having some history of published stories/prose/poetry/whatever in at least semi-respected literary journals and magazine. It sucks, but it's the nature of the industry, and to be quite honest, it's understandable. The places that do allow unsolicited manuscripts submitted, receive thousands upon thousands of them, and often use a vanity-press as part of a way to pay for the costs of printing the rare few manuscripts they actually select to take the risk themselves with.

Unfortunately, publishing houses that are willing to cover the cost of a print run, and the marketing of a book so it will actually sell, aren't going to take a leap on someone's very first novel, without any agent or history of publication. Unless I'm mistaken and you have submitted and been published before? A print run for a publishing house, and the marketing required for a new author to even have a hope of selling his book, is a significant outlay. What do you and your book bring to the table for them to want to take that risk on you, that's any different than any other unsolicited manuscript received? That's what you need to ask yourself? I mean, right now, you are like someone who walks into an engineering firm asking for a job, and says he taught himself at home to be an engineer... Maybe he did. Maybe he would make a great engineer, but without education and accreditation, no one would ever give him a chance. Of course writing is and entirely different industry, and you could very well be an excellent writer, who has written a novel that could plausibly sell, but the fact you have no history to illustrate this... did you at least major in writing/literature in University? Did you submit to your University's literary review if it had one?

I had quite a few friends in my early to mid 20s go through the MFA program at UBC in creative writing. And it was a constant struggle for the vast majority to get into the industry, even after most of them had published short fiction, creative non-fiction and other stuff in University literary journals and reviews. And they have connections through professors and the like.

As a new author with no name, no history, no agent, submitting a manuscript for a first novel... you have to be aware that the chances of your novel getting published without going through a vanity press and significant expense to you is infinitesimal.

There are two paths I would suggest if you don't want to go the vanity press/self-publishing route.

Option 1) Find excerpts/chapters from your novel that can work as self-contained stories. Submit these as stories to as many respected literary journals/magazines/reviews as you can. These will usually also pay for stories. Stay away from garbage online ones. The only danger here is you have to pay attention to copyright laws and ownership of publishing rights for your work. If your piece gets selected for publishing in one of these journals you have to make them aware then that it is part of a longer novel, so you need to make sure you have the right to publish in the future as part of that novel.

Option 2) Set your novel aside for the time being. Don't worry about rushing to have it published. Instead start writing a ton of short fiction. Every day. For the next year or longer. Pick your best pieces and submit them to everywhere you can that is reputable. Literary journals and magazines. Literary contests. This is how most new writers I have known/know start out. Once you build up a resume of published stories, start sending your novel to publishing houses, with this attached. You will gain much more traction, and be far more likely to be given serious consideration.

Just for an example, here's a listing on CBC of literary journals and magazines in Canada open to submission and what they pay if they select your work for publishing. http://www.cbc.ca/books/canadawrite...es-and-journals-open-to-submissions-1.4242191

 

[pitbull]

I'd have that book translated to English and sold on Amazon US

Of course that means more money invested and more risk but you'll never get a chicken if you don't risk an egg.

true, you'd get at least 10 copies sold for tuz audience alone

 

[Seven]

true, you'd get at least 10 copies sold for tuz audience alone

He'd need a very capable translator. And a literary translator at that. You can't just run it through a computer.

 

[Sjaban]

Print a few copies and send it around to generate some buzz...then maybe run a kickstarter campaign to raise some funds
@Dostoevsky

This, I reckon some donation/equity based crowdfunding could do the trick

 

[Dostoevsky]

This is just the nature of the industry. It's the same here in Canada. Many publishing houses won't even let you submit works to them unsolicited, many more without having an agent, and the vast vast majority without having some history of published stories/prose/poetry/whatever in at least semi-respected literary journals and magazine. It sucks, but it's the nature of the industry, and to be quite honest, it's understandable. The places that do allow unsolicited manuscripts submitted, receive thousands upon thousands of them, and often use a vanity-press as part of a way to pay for the costs of printing the rare few manuscripts they actually select to take the risk themselves with.

Unfortunately, publishing houses that are willing to cover the cost of a print run, and the marketing of a book so it will actually sell, aren't going to take a leap on someone's very first novel, without any agent or history of publication. Unless I'm mistaken and you have submitted and been published before? A print run for a publishing house, and the marketing required for a new author to even have a hope of selling his book, is a significant outlay. What do you and your book bring to the table for them to want to take that risk on you, that's any different than any other unsolicited manuscript received? That's what you need to ask yourself? I mean, right now, you are like someone who walks into an engineering firm asking for a job, and says he taught himself at home to be an engineer... Maybe he did. Maybe he would make a great engineer, but without education and accreditation, no one would ever give him a chance. Of course writing is and entirely different industry, and you could very well be an excellent writer, who has written a novel that could plausibly sell, but the fact you have no history to illustrate this... did you at least major in writing/literature in University? Did you submit to your University's literary review if it had one?

I had quite a few friends in my early to mid 20s go through the MFA program at UBC in creative writing. And it was a constant struggle for the vast majority to get into the industry, even after most of them had published short fiction, creative non-fiction and other stuff in University literary journals and reviews. And they have connections through professors and the like.

As a new author with no name, no history, no agent, submitting a manuscript for a first novel... you have to be aware that the chances of your novel getting published without going through a vanity press and significant expense to you is infinitesimal.

There are two paths I would suggest if you don't want to go the vanity press/self-publishing route.

Option 1) Find excerpts/chapters from your novel that can work as self-contained stories. Submit these as stories to as many respected literary journals/magazines/reviews as you can. These will usually also pay for stories. Stay away from garbage online ones. The only danger here is you have to pay attention to copyright laws and ownership of publishing rights for your work. If your piece gets selected for publishing in one of these journals you have to make them aware then that it is part of a longer novel, so you need to make sure you have the right to publish in the future as part of that novel.

Option 2) Set your novel aside for the time being. Don't worry about rushing to have it published. Instead start writing a ton of short fiction. Every day. For the next year or longer. Pick your best pieces and submit them to everywhere you can that is reputable. Literary journals and magazines. Literary contests. This is how most new writers I have known/know start out. Once you build up a resume of published stories, start sending your novel to publishing houses, with this attached. You will gain much more traction, and be far more likely to be given serious consideration.

Just for an example, here's a listing on CBC of literary journals and magazines in Canada open to submission and what they pay if they select your work for publishing. http://www.cbc.ca/books/canadawrite...es-and-journals-open-to-submissions-1.4242191

Thanks for that great post.

And no, I haven't published anything so far nor I have studied literature. While I totally agree with the big idea of your post, here's what I don't get and I think ruins literature:

1) Given they are well educated, those who work for publishing houses, I think it's their job to realize if a book is good enough to earn profit (for them). If so, I don't see why would they reject a novel to begin with, as it's in their interest.

2) I studied economics and it reminds me of finding a job with that degree here. I mean, I can't get a job if I don't have experience in the field. At some point it does make sense, but it other it makes no sense whatsoever because I'm never going to get experience unless you offer me that job. So far I had a couple of different jobs, working outside of the field, and I gotta say I always stood out despite zero experience in the field. It's a gamble, maybe, but otherwise it's just people fading out because zero chances were given.

3) Let's say I get rejected because, well, I never published anything and I'm just among plenty of those who submitted their manuscript without having their name unknown. At some point, I'd understand why is that. On the other side, though, it feels horrible to see other 200-500 books getting published by the SAME people like myself, also unknown, just because they had the money to pay their printing costs. Like I said, plenty of publishing houses automatically accept your manuscript if you say you're paying the costs. It might be a good book. But it might be shitton of books that are pure garbage and are getting published, ruining the whole point of literature and quality reading, just because they had the money? That's just so wrong. It makes me think how they don't care about the quality of the book at all, nor about their own reputation, since they are ready to publish literally anything.

But I do like the options that you named. It makes sense.

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He'd need a very capable translator. And a literary translator at that. You can't just run it through a computer.

Been thinking about that for a long time.

I just don't understand how something can be translated well enough so it doesn't ruin the original. Not only the person translating needs to have native English, but IMO he needs to love and be in the business of literature so he captures the essence of the original. And that's very rare and hard work. You need to be in the authors skin to see what he sees. I think if I translated mine with google translate (even if it's excellent) it would be a disaster.

Especially when it comes to poetry. No wonder Goethe learned Serbian to understand some. IMO it's impossible to capture the 100% of it.

 

[Seven]

Been thinking about that for a long time.

I just don't understand how something can be translated well enough so it doesn't ruin the original. Not only the person translating needs to have native English, but IMO he needs to love and be in the business of literature so he captures the essence of the original. And that's very rare and hard work. You need to be in the authors skin to see what he sees. I think if I translated mine with google translate (even if it's excellent) it would be a disaster.

Especially when it comes to poetry. No wonder Goethe learned Serbian to understand some. IMO it's impossible to capture the 100% of it.

Imo it's impossible. You can get close, but it's not quite the same. Different styles, sometimes even different ways of thinking, work in different languages. I guess it's because very often language and culture are intertwined.

 

[pitbull]

Imo it's impossible. You can get close, but it's not quite the same. Different styles, sometimes even different ways of thinking, work in different languages. I guess it's because very often language and culture are intertwined.

That's why the best translators often are also brilliant writers themselves, it involves a lot of creative input to provide a quality translation.

 

[Dostoevsky]

Imo it's impossible. You can get close, but it's not quite the same. Different styles, sometimes even different ways of thinking, work in different languages. I guess it's because very often language and culture are intertwined.

Yeah, I kinda agree.

Also, I think it's important to understand the language and culture better. I might be wrong, but I think a Russian guy would provide me a better English translation than some American guy, despite the high GPA or anything. But I can't say it can be as good as the original.