Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,289
Agreed.

That's why a different distribution system for all the goods & services produced will be needed in the long term.

I think people will always need to work to some extent. Someone has to oversee what machines are doing. The question is: how much will we need to work? And what will it mean in our society, will our work still define us the way it does today?

Also, and I think this is a very important point, a lot of people simply won't be able to work because they will not be skilled enough. And not only not skilled enough in the sense that they are not trained for the work, but also in the sense that they do not have the intelligence necessary to do the work.
 

Ocelot

Midnight Marauder
Jul 13, 2013
18,943
I think people will always need to work to some extent. Someone has to oversee what machines are doing. The question is: how much will we need to work? And what will it mean in our society, will our work still define us the way it does today?

Also, and I think this is a very important point, a lot of people simply won't be able to work because they will not be skilled enough. And not only not skilled enough in the sense that they are not trained for the work, but also in the sense that they do not have the intelligence necessary to do the work.
The way I see it, there will still be more goods & services produced than ever before, it's just a question of how to distribute them (you could argue a model where production doesn't rise very significantly due to a dramatically falling demand due to huge unemployment and therefore no customer base with money to spend, but that's not the scenario I think is likely to occur, at least not in the long run).

Previously, it was distributed via the exchange of labor for money. If in the future however there's be far too little available employment opportunities (or, in the words of neo-classic economics, "natural unemployment" rises to extreme heights), a different system is needed. There could then of course be a few varietes of solutions, one of them being to simply reduce work time, let's say to 15-20 hours a week, spreading the labor hours over a broader amount of people. However, as you've said, it's unlikely that everyone will have sufficient qualifications to perform the work needed, making this option not very viable.

A second approach, one I would be in favour of, would be to establish something like an unconditional basic income, with everyone receiving a "basic" amount of money every month without having to work - keep in mind here that in this scenario technological improvements have increased output dramatically while reducing the need for labor, so the major threat I see to growth is actually too little a demand due to a poor unemployed mass. There would still be incentive to work however, be it simply for an increased amount of money and luxury, as well as other, non-monetary incentives. These actually get overlooked very often in economics, but are very important imo, even disregarding financial issues, unemployed people are seldomly happy being unemployed. It sounds a bit silly at first, but work also gives sense and purpose to many people's lives, and especially seeing as plenty of the unpopular, low-skilled jobs people hate will be gone, I don't really see the problem of a too high amount of people getting complacent.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,289
You do realize that the idea of paying people for not working will get you burned at the stake with half of my country...
Basic Income is gaining popularity in Europe though. It's a big topic of discussion these days and it's just a matter of time before countries will start experimenting with it.
 

Ocelot

Midnight Marauder
Jul 13, 2013
18,943
Basic Income is gaining popularity in Europe though. It's a big topic of discussion these days and it's just a matter of time before countries will start experimenting with it.
There's something a little bit similar to it already in place here in Austria, though it doesn't cover 100% of the population, you gotta officially6 be "willing to work".
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
72,590
There's something a little bit similar to it already in place here in Austria, though it doesn't cover 100% of the population, you gotta officially6 be "willing to work".
And what is the criteria for proving that, community work etc?

The Tories here plan to force 18-21 year olds to work for basic income support.
 

Ocelot

Midnight Marauder
Jul 13, 2013
18,943
And what is the criteria for proving that, community work etc?

The Tories here plan to force 18-21 year olds to work for basic income support.
Basically you gotta attend to some sort of regular job centre counsels and schooling programs. Don't exactly know how it works or if you can get certified "unwilling to work", but it's certainly no unconditional basic income.

- - - Updated - - -

And you gotta have Austrian citizenship and live in Austria.
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
72,590
Basically you gotta attend to some sort of regular job centre counsels and schooling programs. Don't exactly know how it works or if you can get certified "unwilling to work", but it's certainly no unconditional basic income.
Seems more lenient than the UK. Here you have to do those things just to earn income support. You are also forced to apply for jobs, even if they don't necessarily suit your skills or experience.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,289
And what is the criteria for proving that, community work etc?

The Tories here plan to force 18-21 year olds to work for basic income support.
All of that becomes pretty silly when there are no jobs. I know people who have worked in the car industry for 20 years. Now the factory is shutting down. What on Earth are these people going to do? What job is out there for them? I don't see it. I honestly don't.
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
72,590
All of that becomes pretty silly when there are no jobs. I know people who have worked in the car industry for 20 years. Now the factory is shutting down. What on Earth are these people going to do? What job is out there for them? I don't see it. I honestly don't.
By jobs I mean council, charity or other otherwise 'voluntary' work. It could be litter picking or planting flowers, but as it hasn't come into power yet there are no examples.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,289
By jobs I mean council, charity or other otherwise 'voluntary' work. It could be litter picking or planting flowers, but as it hasn't come into power yet there are no examples.
Yeah, but that's making people do silly things that aren't really necessary. As an economic plan that's just nonsense. I don't think this is the path we'll choose in the future.
 

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