US Presidential Elections thread - the fate of the world to be decided (4 Viewers)

Who would you vote to be the next President of the United States?

  • John McCain

  • Barack Obama

  • undecided


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
83,479
When Bush ran for president in 2000, he said that he was entirely against the notion of "nation building". The one place where he has lived up to those promises has been in "nation building" at home. ;)

Bush/Cheney chose foreign affairs as the subject of the first debate in hopes that it would be a knock-out punch, since that's where they felt their campaign was stronger. A lot of attention has been focused there. For one, because what now looks to be about a $215 billion and counting war in Iraq is going to influence a lot of what's possible domestically. For another, a question of national security. And another take is that foreign affairs can be a smokescreen for failed policies at home.

Domestic issues abound, but they are not in as brilliant a focus as a war can give you.

Health care is a frigging mess in this country -- for all the chest-beating people here do about how we have the best care in the world, it's ironic that we're running to Canada for prescription drugs (Bush basically didn't want to create conflict with American pharmas) and we're in a sort of dark ages compared to, say, Europe for what appears on formularies. (As a Type I diabetic, I can't access convenient meds that Europeans have had for years.) Fact is that we're drinking our own Kool Aid if we think our health care system is superior to other nations out there ... it no longer is.

But more important are the economics of health care -- the pay-by-proxy system is falling apart, costs are skyrocketing, the insured are subsidizing the uninsured more and more as they fall off the ranks of the covered, and every labor strike in this country over the past couple of years has almost exclusively dealt with health care costs. Bush talks about OB/GYN's getting massacred by malpractice lawsuits, and in that specific field he's right. But that represents about 1% of health care expenditures. Most of the rising costs can be attributed to an aging population, prescription costs, new mandatory minimums for nurse-patient ratios, and a system that encourages innovations but not efficiencies. About the only candidate I saw that comprehensively "got it" in this area with a health care policy was Howard Dean, but then he was a doctor (and a nut case of sorts, but that's another story). The rest are fumbling around.

As for the Patriot Act, who was going to vote against something with a name like that right after 9/11? There's always an us-versus-them mentality though ... it's easy to sign away rights when you think you can comfortably say you're never subject to those laws. And then your name shows up accidentally on a no-fly list, or your brother wants to marry an Arab-American, etc. There has to be a balance.

As for economics, the budget deficit will do probably what Reagan's did in the 1980s to Bush Sr.: whatever presidential administration inherits it in the future, it will kick them out of office when the economics catch up. My theory is that Bush is probably trying to run up a massive deficit to justify cutting entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare in the future, but it's politically unpopular to say so. In the meantime, the U.S. dollar is trading at some all-time lows against other currencies because of all the mounting debt.
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
83,479
...before half of this country wants to secede from the Union and the other half, regardless of the election's outcome. :dazed:

Actually, give it another two weeks with the opposing lawyers before the winner is determined. Then we'll get to that point. :rolleyes:
 

Layce Erayce

Senior Member
Aug 11, 2002
9,116
swag you might not realise this but there is tension within the republican party itself.

whether this will actually cause any division will depend on whether bush is elected or not.
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
83,479
Actually, you're spot on, Duke.

For a presidential candidate who stood on a platform of "I'm a uniter, not a divider" back in 2000, he's been the complete opposite ... and even within his own party.
 

Layce Erayce

Senior Member
Aug 11, 2002
9,116
That comment was political rhetoric, pure and simple. Nobody can take it seriously.

For now though, it seems like all the moderates in the party are keeping quiet, at least until he is out of office- whether in the coming months or in another 4 years.

The division I feel is more along the lines of Christian Evangelicals vs everybody else. Its a pity its come to that, really.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
111,601
This election might come down to the number of young voters who show up to the polls. If I'm not mistaken, it seems like more of those new voters will be choosing Kerry, at least from what's been reported so far.
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
83,479
++ [ originally posted by DukeVonEggwaffle? ] ++
The division I feel is more along the lines of Christian Evangelicals vs everybody else. Its a pity its come to that, really.
A group I see as little different than an American flavor of the Taliban. Same approach, different religion.
 

Vinman

2013 Prediction Cup Champ
Jul 16, 2002
11,481
++ [ originally posted by Loppan ] ++


I think it's Bush who can't protect his country since 9/11 happend under his watch.

We only hear about when CIA etc fails not when their succed in their job.
The PLANNING for those attacks came on Clintons watch.....

He KNEW we had a problem on our hands, but he chose to ignore it
 

Vinman

2013 Prediction Cup Champ
Jul 16, 2002
11,481
++ [ originally posted by swag ] ++


Hmmm, so if I follow this logic, if George Bush v1.0 got re-elected instead of Clinton, all the Islamic death cult fanatics would have said, "Oh -- well, now that George is still in office, I don't care if he got the world to put troops on Arab soil ... particularly in the holiest places in the Koran in Saudi Arabia. We're afraid of him and we better not do anything, because he might do something that could defend his nation against guerrila attacks from a nationless terror organization..."

Err... uhhh... I'm still thinking about this one, but it just isn't coming to me.
Read the above post

And the difference would have been that EITHER Bush would have acted, while Clinton was too busy screwing around with Monica !!!!!!!!!!
 
OP

Zlatan

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2003
23,049
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #117
    ++ [ originally posted by Vinman ] ++


    The PLANNING for those attacks came on Clintons watch.....

    He KNEW we had a problem on our hands, but he chose to ignore it
    OK then. If he knew the US had a problem when he left, them Bush most probably knew it when he arrived in office. The attacks were 9 months after that, and yet he chose to ignore it, and was completely unprepared. How d you explain that? Why didnt he do something in those 9 months?
     
    OP

    Zlatan

    Senior Member
    Jun 9, 2003
    23,049
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #118
    ++ [ originally posted by Vinman ] ++


    Read the above post

    And the difference would have been that EITHER Bush would have acted, while Clinton was too busy screwing around with Monica !!!!!!!!!!
    Not really, Bush is too busy screwing the american people.
     

    Bjerknes

    "Top Economist"
    Mar 16, 2004
    111,601
    ++ [ originally posted by Vinman ] ++


    Read the above post

    And the difference would have been that EITHER Bush would have acted, while Clinton was too busy screwing around with Monica !!!!!!!!!!
    It's rather sad that die-hard Republicans can only use the Monica issue as an attack against Clinton.

    And just for the record, how exactly would Bush have "acted" to take away the terrorist threat before 9/11?
     

    Vinman

    2013 Prediction Cup Champ
    Jul 16, 2002
    11,481
    ++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++


    It's rather sad that die-hard Republicans can only use the Monica issue as an attack against Clinton.

    And just for the record, how exactly would Bush have "acted" to take away the terrorist threat before 9/11?
    Die-hard republican ????

    Andy, I just switched parties from Democrat to Republican in May

    I'd had enough !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    Status
    Not open for further replies.

    Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 3)