US Army Sergeant Goes Berserk (3 Viewers)

[Nzoric]

It's still based on choice. So what if it's easier to become a murderer in one place than it is in another. Now you have even more choice, with the whole new country, new government thing.

Free will and free choice isn't present in equal measure everywhere.

 

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[Enron]

Free will and free choice isn't present in equal measure everywhere.

Bah, now you're really selling the snake oil.

 

[Nzoric]

Bah, now you're really selling the snake oil.

I'm not. I just don't understand the thought process behind comparing the choice of a US marine and a suicide bomber in Afghanistan based on the argument of "free will". Which is basically what you're saying.

 

[WΏΏdy?]

The whole, "people signed up to go to war" thing. That doesn't exist in our military.

You don't get to pick whether you go to Iraq, Afghanistan, or a Florida. You join and they send you where you're needed. Only the Army and Coast Guard have a guaranteed job selection (meaning you get to choose what you do) and even so you may still be a radio operator assigned to an infantry unit (which means people will be shooting at you).

Some guys are lucky and really good at what they do and can get assigned non-combat positions, but those are few.
A friend of mine is an aviation electrician and was assigned to a special ops support wing and got to go to England, Germany, Japan. I had another friend who was a Marine and asked to be assigned to logistics (what he did in school) but got put into the infantry, did four tours, got wounded four times before getting a medical discharge. So things are very much a lottery.

So by joining the military, you are in some way "going to war". The guys that really want to kill people and guys like the fellow from the article deserve everything the get and more. But it's a little more complicated than most would believe.

You think i didnt know that E ? When u said i was ignorant to the concept of soldiering i thought u were gonna enlighten me with something new.

I know people don't sign up a fortnight before leaving for the war. Soldiers who have been in the army years before the war began left for it as well and that is not justifiable either. I think you have to face some jail time or something if u refuse to go to war but that brings me back to the original point anyway, would you rather destroy families and kill people because if u dont you go to jail?

 

[Enron]

I'm not. I just don't understand the thought process behind comparing the choice of a US marine and a suicide bomber in Afghanistan based on the argument of "free will". Which is basically what you're saying.

That's not at all what I'm saying. I'm just not making excuses for either. Not every little kid in Afghanistan grows up to be a suicide bomber.

 

[Nzoric]

That's not at all what I'm saying. I'm just not making excuses for either. Not every little kid in Afghanistan grows up to be a suicide bomber.

And not every college student joins the army. Let's end this discussion though, we're making no ground at all

 

[Enron]

You think i didnt know that E ? When u said i was ignorant to the concept of soldiering i thought u were gonna enlighten me with something new.

I know people don't sign up a fortnight before leaving for the war. Soldiers who have been in the army years before the war began left for it as well and that is not justifiable either. I think you have to face some jail time or something if u refuse to go to war but that brings me back to the original point anyway, would you rather destroy families and kill people because if u dont you go to jail?

It's your job. You go where you're needed. That's what you sign up to do, whether you're in the US military or Indian military, Taliban, etc. I don't think most people sign up for military service with the intent of killing civilians and destroying families as you put it.

 

[JuveJay]

I don't even know what we're arguing anymore. If we're trying to argue about with group of assholes is more compassionate, then I think we've made the point already.

I won't contest the similarities because essentially they are people out to kill, but saying that the reasoning and excusing of their actions is one and the same seems off. There are different reasons people reach a certain point of killing, some can carry it off in a clinical and precise way, others just completely lose it.

 

[Enron]

And not every college student joins the army.

I never said it was difficult on this end. Life is easy here, no doubt about it. The suicide bomber and Sargent Psychopath don't start out at the same place, they just end up there.

 

[Nzoric]

Agree.

 

[Enron]

I won't contest the similarities because essentially they are people out to kill, but saying that the reasoning and excusing of their actions is one and the same seems off. There are different reasons people reach a certain point of killing, some can carry it off in a clinical and precise way, others just completely lose it.

Wait, so you can't completely lose it and remain clinical and precise?

 

[JuveJay]

Wait, so you can't completely lose it and remain clinical and precise?

That's not what I said, as you know.

 

[WΏΏdy?]

It's your job. You go where you're needed. That's what you sign up to do, whether you're in the US military or Indian military, Taliban, etc.

But anyway, killing is never justified. Even if it is your job.

So you agree with me?

 

[Enron]

So you agree with me?

On the principle of killing is bad. But not the whole "every member of the military deserves to kill their families" thing.

---------- Post added 13.03.2012 at 13:21 ----------

That's not what I said, as you know.

I pulled a Martin.

 

[JuveJay]

I pulled a Martin.

I didn't even know he was your type!

 

[WΏΏdy?]

On the principle of killing is bad. But not the whole "every member of the military deserves to kill their families" thing.

I never said that

Fuck the US govt and each and every member of their troops including every women in their family. I hope they go back home, snap and shoot themselves and their army comrades.

I want them to kill their fellow troops, yes every member who goes to war. I don't get your point, in one post you say killing is not justified even if its your job and then the next post you start defending them?

 

[Enron]

I never said that



I want them to kill their fellow troops, yes every member who goes to war. I don't get your point, in one post you say killing is not justified even if its your job and then the next post you start defending them?

This confuses you?

 

[swag]

I want them to kill their fellow troops, yes every member who goes to war. I don't get your point, in one post you say killing is not justified even if its your job and then the next post you start defending them?

Given suicide rates, they may not even get that far.

 

[WΏΏdy?]

This confuses you?

You are one of the guys here who actually has a open mind and wont debate a point that is plain wrong. So yes it does confuse me.

Given suicide rates, they may not even get that far.

Good. They deserve worse than that. Even if its an british,american or indian troops who go to war when it is not justified.

 

[Enron]

You are one of the guys here who actually has a open mind and wont debate a point that is plain wrong. So yes it does confuse me.

Circumstance primarily. I grew up in a military family. I have friends in the military, family in the military. If I were in the military I'd probably have Born To Kill written on my helmet next to a peace sign.

It's not like I'm overly in favor of one or the other. In fact, I'm actually pretty conflicted on the issue.