UK Politics (5 Viewers)

Maddy

Oracle of Copenhagen
Jul 10, 2009
16,541
Of course. I agree that he probably was behind it.

I'm just hesitant to accept these kinds of accusations as fact without evidence. It wouldn't be the first false accusation of this nature
Always a good thing to be critical. Remember to apply to this to yourself; auto-reactions, your self-knowledge, knowledge on a matter etc.

Being critical without doing any research is intellectual laziness. Don't.
 

Kopanja

Senior Member
Jul 30, 2015
5,457
Did he really need that help for an election he was always going to win by a landslide, considering the political fallout that followed?
Another pro of the attack is signal for Russian intelligence and oligarchs – we are gonna get you, no matter where, when, resources needed to do it, and how insignificant you think you are, so keep your mouth shut. The timing for this kind of signal couldn't be much better, just before another six years of putin.
 

Dantes

Senior Member
Dec 15, 2017
1,042
Putin's presidency thrives in times of international tensions. His single most important tool in the box is 'us vs them' narrative/victimhood (where is da proofs? we dindu nuffin). So he goes out, sets little geopolitical fires here and there, collecting harsh words and sanctions from the EU/UK/US, plugs them into his state controlled media, goebbels effect occurs, his approval ratings to through the roof. I am not even excluding the possiblity that the attack was timed for presidential elections cos no matter how many kids are left to burn alive in Kemerevo, russians always look up to the guy who stands up against western provocation and aggression :touched:
Agree with this. It's most plausible explanation of motive. The quality of life in Russia is very poor in comparison with every other 'first world' country. The Russia vs The West narrative is one which keeps the focus away from their own real problems. Also the EU, NATO and the UN seem convinced Russia is responsible, leading to an initial response of expelling around 115 Russian spies from more than 20 countries. Very much a case of Occam's razor for the layperson who will never see the actual evidence.

I can't imagine it's any more complex than this. Russia must've known this attack would strengthen the UK.

We say the Russians did it and our allies agree - particularly the USA (no surprise there). Brexit has no impact on intelligence or defence (that's not really what membership of the EU is about) and the states of influence are still members of NATO and still bound by those Articles, including Article 5 on Collective Defence. And, at home, divisions arise in the Labour party as a result of some wanting to give Russia the benefit of the doubt. So Government's hold on Parliament is at it's strongest for some time, and as a direct result.

Think I'll give going to the World Cup a miss though :p
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
72,082
All I will say is that it was an obvious mistake from the beginning, but overturning a democratically voted referendum at this late stage? Hands up for career suicide? Can't see all that many takers. Yeah, you done goofed.

I'm not sure who is worse, May, Corbyn, or that pisshead from the little tax haven country.

This is almost the only way that someone like Corbyn could become Prime Minister. It's hilarious if you think about it. If Trump can become US President then the time is ripe for a cast member of Geordie Shore to be the next Prime Minister.
 

Dantes

Senior Member
Dec 15, 2017
1,042
British politics is fucked.

May tries to please everyone, which she should know is impossible, and just ends up alienating everyone - even her own party. She's got no backbone. And Corbyn just disagrees with everything without offering any actual alternative policy or solutions.

We kind of have to leave the EU now. God knows how or to what end. But to overturn or re-run a referendum in which 72% of the electorate have already voted has no place in a democratic society. If we carry on at this rate turnout at future elections is going to be so low - due to a total lack of confidence in the system and our MPs - that future Parliaments won't have any real mandate, to govern, at all.
 

Elvin

Senior Member
Nov 25, 2005
36,809
Really fucked-up situation Brits got themselves into.
"We're doing generally great, let's complicate our lives" :tup:
and in the process, give the anti-Western propaganda (Russian mainly) some priceless material to go on.
 

Dantes

Senior Member
Dec 15, 2017
1,042
Is there any way they get a second referendum, or they will stubbornly go jump from the cliff?
They may just have to jump off the cliff. This literally is a no win situation.

If there's a second referendum then Parliament are basically saying "fuck democracy, you'll keep voting until you give us the answer we want." And if we don't, we'll basically be leaving on crappy terms, and with no real idea what sort of situation we'll end up with.

Most of us are bored of all this nonsense now. And the longer it all goes on the more fucked up it seems to be getting.
 

Kopanja

Senior Member
Jul 30, 2015
5,457
They may just have to jump off the cliff. This literally is a no win situation.

If there's a second referendum then Parliament are basically saying "fuck democracy, you'll keep voting until you give us the answer we want."
I think it depends on how you sell it. You can flip it to "we didn't know what are we getting into, now we can make an informed decision". Especially if you pack it with some re-election or cabinet reformatting, some real or fictional crimes of "leave" campaign discovering and some heads rolling.
 

Dantes

Senior Member
Dec 15, 2017
1,042
I think it depends on how you sell it. You can flip it to "we YOU didn't know what YOU are we getting into, now we YOU can make an informed decision. YOU ARE ALL IDIOTS". Especially if you pack it with some re-election or cabinet reformatting, some real or fictional crimes of "leave" campaign discovering and some heads rolling.
There's no way of selling it.

I've amended your statement above with some words in caps as to how it will come across to half the population. This is on Cameron's head for not doing his job, there shouldn't have been a referendum. We voted for Parliament to make decisions. Now they have to live with the consequences of him abdicating that responsibility to the general public.

This is so divisive. Whatever happens, 50% of the UK will be hacked off with the outcome.
 

Kopanja

Senior Member
Jul 30, 2015
5,457
There's no way of selling it.

I've amended your statement above with some words in caps as to how it will come across to half the population. This is on Cameron's head for not doing his job, there shouldn't have been a referendum. We voted for Parliament to make decisions. Now they have to live with the consequences of him abdicating that responsibility to the general public.

This is so divisive. Whatever happens, 50% of the UK will be hacked off with the outcome.
Well, you are right, there is no way to sell it to the whole population. Simply because the other half would've cry robbery and rightfully so. The stupid political game of few ended up with shooting the whole nation in a dick.
 

Dostoevsky

Tzu
Administrator
May 27, 2007
88,428
Will British people even lose anything? I think majority sees this as a horrible thing but I doubt it's gonna hit their people hard. It may more reflect on EU itself rather than Britain.
 

Kopanja

Senior Member
Jul 30, 2015
5,457
Will British people even lose anything? I think majority sees this as a horrible thing but I doubt it's gonna hit their people hard. It may more reflect on EU itself rather than Britain.
Not a Brit, obviously, but from what I heard it’s not only hit them economically pretty hard, without agreement they’d need a hard border in Ireland. And that fuck ups good Friday agreement.
 

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