UK Politics (1 Viewer)

Nov 25, 2005
30,559
As a Scot I hope we never go independent, it would be an utter disaster. There is no mandate for another referendum. We were promised the last one 5 years ago was "once in a generation" and it was an overwhelming no.

As usual it is the minority who shout the loudest who get the attention , so what if there is a minor gathering in Edinburgh. Do they speak for the country?. The majority don't want independence. In the last election the majority of people (55%) again did not vote SNP. This is more than in the previous election (straight after the SNP's high of the last referendum) there is no reason for another divisive referendum. Let the Scottish politicians try and fix their failing economy, education and healthcare.

Also there is no guarantee Scotland would be accepted win the EU. Do we meet the conditions to join? Would Spain allow a separatist nation to join?
Why not tho? As a representative of a newly independent nation myself, it is so mind-blowing to me. Just doesn't compute. (Not judging btw).
 

Boksic

Senior Member
May 11, 2005
9,045
Why not tho? As a representative of a newly independent nation myself, it is so mind-blowing to me. Just doesn't compute. (Not judging btw).
No problem, I get that it is appealing for some countries. I also appreciate that to an outsider it seems exciting.

But there are so many reasons going against this and I won't go into them all but here are a few:

- We do not have our own currency. We would plan to still use the pound or Euro not our own, meaning we would lose one of the most crucial methods to control our economy. If we did decide to create our own currency, would you risk all you investments/home etc. for a brand new currency with a low rating?
- We borrow more funds from the UK government than we generate (more than any other UK country). We would not be self sufficient and in a deficit on day one (which we would need to repay) and would only increase. In the last referendum the figures provided by the SNP were barely manageable and highly reliant on an overly ambitious oil price which is nowhere near the current value. The economic argument does not stand up.
- We have the highest proportion of people in the UK working for the UK public sector. This links to the point above, we are in no way self sufficient and who is going to pay for these people?
- Outside of public sector we are reliant on oil. A highly volatile economic resource and one with a finite lifespan.
- Our biggest trade partner is the rest of the UK. Why make it more difficult to trade with them?
- What will be the expense to create and manage our own border with England? What will be the cost of setting up our own military and public sector banking function?
- The current ruling party in the Scottish government have proven to fail in education, economy, healthcare, infrastructure, drug issue prevention. I would not trust them with more powers.
- Despite the failing public services we are currently the highest taxed part of the UK (as decided by the current Scottish Government). I do not want to be taxed more to pay for the above.
- There is no guarantee we would be in the EU.
 
Nov 25, 2005
30,559
No problem, I get that it is appealing for some countries. I also appreciate that to an outsider it seems exciting.

But there are so many reasons going against this and I won't go into them all but here are a few:

- We do not have our own currency. We would plan to still use the pound or Euro not our own, meaning we would lose one of the most crucial methods to control our economy. If we did decide to create our own currency, would you risk all you investments/home etc. for a brand new currency with a low rating?
- We borrow more funds from the UK government than we generate (more than any other UK country). We would not be self sufficient and in a deficit on day one (which we would need to repay) and would only increase. In the last referendum the figures provided by the SNP were barely manageable and highly reliant on an overly ambitious oil price which is nowhere near the current value. The economic argument does not stand up.
- We have the highest proportion of people in the UK working for the UK public sector. This links to the point above, we are in no way self sufficient and who is going to pay for these people?
- Outside of public sector we are reliant on oil. A highly volatile economic resource and one with a finite lifespan.
- Our biggest trade partner is the rest of the UK. Why make it more difficult to trade with them?
- What will be the expense to create and manage our own border with England? What will be the cost of setting up our own military and public sector banking function?
- The current ruling party in the Scottish government have proven to fail in education, economy, healthcare, infrastructure, drug issue prevention. I would not trust them with more powers.
- Despite the failing public services we are currently the highest taxed part of the UK (as decided by the current Scottish Government). I do not want to be taxed more to pay for the above.
- There is no guarantee we would be in the EU.
Guess independence from a fellow democratic Union is way different than independence from imperialist Russia. Because you're not their satellite.

Thanks for the reply.
 

s4tch

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Contributor
Mar 23, 2015
12,021
corona effects

the same problem exists in germany as well, despite UNFORTUNATELY still being in EUSSR
dunno about romania, but hundreds of non-resident hungarians left the uk at the beginning of the year because their work permit wasn't prolonged. in my book that's a brexit effect, regardless of the coronavirus.
 

lgorTudor

Senior Member
Jan 15, 2015
25,906
dunno about romania, but hundreds of non-resident hungarians left the uk at the beginning of the year because their work permit wasn't prolonged. in my book that's a brexit effect, regardless of the coronavirus.
might be overlapping effects since here seasonal workers from eastern europe weren't allowed in due to travel restrictions
 

JuveJay

起死回生
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
60,358
It's well known that the majority of the crop labour in the UK is Eastern European. It became that way purely because they will live in cheap and crammed accommodation that English people will not live in, on minimum wage, so the farmers not only get labour but they get extra money from tenants living in a caravan or outhouse on their land. I know a guy who has a family of Romanians living in a converted shed, because it backs onto fields.

There have been plenty of out of work people going to help in the fields but the shortfall is still there.

Coronavirus is the clear issue right now, but Brexit will eventually have an effect.

There was a case a few weeks ago where a farmer flew in 30 people into the country on a private plane so they could work his land, he couldn't get English people to do the work for the money involved.

Cheap labour is an issue across the world, it's no different with Mexicans in the US, or a lot worse in Middle East and Asian countries.
 

DAiDEViL

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2015
43,276
It's well known that the majority of the crop labour in the UK is Eastern European. It became that way purely because they will live in cheap and crammed accommodation that English people will not live in, on minimum wage, so the farmers not only get labour but they get extra money from tenants living in a caravan or outhouse on their land. I know a guy who has a family of Romanians living in a converted shed, because it backs onto fields.

There have been plenty of out of work people going to help in the fields but the shortfall is still there.

Coronavirus is the clear issue right now, but Brexit will eventually have an effect.

There was a case a few weeks ago where a farmer flew in 30 people into the country on a private plane so they could work his land, he couldn't get English people to do the work for the money involved.

Cheap labour is an issue across the world, it's no different with Mexicans in the US, or a lot worse in Middle East and Asian countries.
This is like Germany flying in cheap workers to go dig out asparagus for them. Or in the meat industrie, where everything has to be cheap as fuck. Those east european workers are living jammed together just like the pigs they are supposed to chop.
 

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