UK Politics (4 Viewers)

Hist

Founder of Hism
Jan 18, 2009
11,393
I'm not sure what the BLM movement hopes to gain from removing every monument or statue involving someone who once upon a time did or said something racist. Times were different. Doesn't make it acceptable to a 21st century spectator but that was the world they lived in, it wasn't 2020 it was 1720 or 1920. The thing about history is that you read it and understand it and learn from it. Creating a "blackwash" of history and pretending those things were not part of history because they hurt your feelings is not the way forward, no one learns anything from that. It's just another form of ignorance to pretend that minorities were not persecuted. Look at world or human history to see this tale repeated again and again.

Many of these in question were great Britons who doubtless saved the country from huge military defeats and probable invasion/occupation (Churchill, Nelson, Drake, for example) which would have made the country very different to the one they currently live in. They are immortalised because of those achievements and what they did for the country and the empire. I can understand why that upsets a minority of people but this is the United Kingdom, this is our history. Denying it only ensures that it happens again.

And I think that generally behind a lot of great people there is a trail of shit and people left in their wake that we may not like, but you often couldn't be a nice person and get things done then, which perhaps is still true even today.

Think of it this way. When the statues of these figures were erected, it was not because of the racist/ugly parts of their legacy but rather the good parts of it.But when non-whites look at the same statue they remember what that person thought/did to them. When these statues were erected, white culture was the dominant/mainstream culture. Now that non-whites are getting a stronger voice and are wielding more influence on the mainstream the ugly aspects of these figures are being emphasized.

For example, White people look at a Churchill statue and see his leadership in the war and fight against Nazi Germany. They never think of what he did to Indians. No one sane would ever praise that side of him. But Indians look at him and remember what he did to them. British Indians are becoming more influential on the mainstream whereas in the past their opinion didnt have much weight. (People are also increasingly identifying with their race compared to in the past but thats a different discussion)


As the demographics of Western societies change and as marginalized voices become more influential on the mainstream. a review of who to honor in shared public places will happen. The BLM smashing of statues is an angry version of this review process. I am hoping that eventually this will become a rational democratic process of review. Some statues will remain and others will be removed.
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
72,082
Which makes Boris'/UK's Covid policy the hardest to follow. Whenever guidelines and the signals from your government change once in a few weeks, it's hard to really adjust your behaviour to the infection risks. Boris went from 'eat out to help out' to closing the hospitality industry in just a few months. From negotiating with mayors from the North a few weeks and a policy of regional matters to another UK-wide lockdown.

Just seems like it's another hail mary call every now and then but no real strategy (or sticking with it)
If it has worked for other countries then well done to them, but I don't think there is such thing as having a blanket policy that deals with this in a perfect way. What works somewhere also has no guarantee of working in another country.

I think mistakes have been made but it's also a fluid situation where you regularly have to try to make the right calls, and often have no choice but to make tough calls.

People rightly have a pop at BoJo for things he does and says but for me this is a unique situation where MPs or your man on the street can talk all the talk they want about how they would do this or would have done that. All great with hindsight and no level of responsibility, but I would certainly hate to be making these calls.

Lockdown does two things above all - takes a load off the NHS, and hurts the economy. But imagine nothing is done and the infection rate spirals. Then the NHS is overrun and probably would have an even greater impact, without even mentioning the human cost.

It's a shitshow but I'll repeat that I expected staggered lockdowns all along, people have to adapt. We're all suffering.
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
72,082
About 300,000 people are expected to leave Hong Kong for Britain using a new visa route which opens on Sunday.

Hong Kong's British National (Overseas) passport holders and their immediate dependants will be able to apply for the visa using a smartphone app.

About 7,000 people from Hong Kong have already been allowed to settle in the UK since July, the Home Office said.

The Chinese foreign ministry said from 31 January, it will no longer recognise the BNO passport as a travel document.

It will not be accepted as proof of identity either, China said, and they "reserve the right to take further measures".

The visa was announced in July after China imposed a new security law in Hong Kong.

Beijing has previously warned the UK not to meddle in domestic issues.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson said the move honoured the UK's "profound ties of history and friendship" with the ex-British colony.

Those who apply and secure the visa will be able to apply for settlement after five years and then British citizenship after a further 12 months.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55847572
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
72,082
It does seem like the government are ramping up the armed forces for the late 2020s and beyond, it's a very slow rate. Before then the navy will shrink to its smallest size since time immemorial, simply because they can't build ships fast enough. Two things are pushing this - the China and Russia problem, and Brexit.

BTW, I actually LOL when I see Starmer talk about Tory military cuts. The guy who wants to introduce a "Prevention of Military Intervention Act", following on from the idiot Corybn, who would have destroyed the armed forces and jeopardised national security.
 

IliveForJuve

Burn this club
Jan 17, 2011
18,363
It does seem like the government are ramping up the armed forces for the late 2020s and beyond, it's a very slow rate. Before then the navy will shrink to its smallest size since time immemorial, simply because they can't build ships fast enough. Two things are pushing this - the China and Russia problem, and Brexit.

BTW, I actually LOL when I see Starmer talk about Tory military cuts. The guy who wants to introduce a "Prevention of Military Intervention Act", following on from the idiot Corybn, who would have destroyed the armed forces and jeopardised national security.
:tup: I love that Russia and especially China are seen as a problem. I already feel more British.
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
72,082
There should be riots over this.

Boris Johnson to make protests that cause 'annoyance' illegal, with prison sentences of up to 10 years
https://www.businessinsider.com/bor...ests-that-are-noisy-or-cause-annoyance-2021-3
Imagine doing this in France :lol:

Some people protest for the sake of protesting, especially at the moment where they feel they are being extra edgy doing it when they are supposed to be distancing. As long as there are students there will be protestors, it's almost a rite of passage for some of them. So cracking down on the garbage is one thing, but if the lines become blurred then it's a potentially dangerous precedent.
 

AFL_ITALIA

MAGISTERIAL
Jun 17, 2011
29,438
Imagine doing this in France :lol:

Some people protest for the sake of protesting, especially at the moment where they feel they are being extra edgy doing it when they are supposed to be distancing. As long as there are students there will be protestors, it's almost a rite of passage for some of them. So cracking down on the garbage is one thing, but if the lines become blurred then it's a potentially dangerous precedent.
:agree: Who is to say what is annoying and when it is? Seems very subjective.
 

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