UK Politics (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter Red
- Start date
![Juventino[RUS]](https://www.juventuz.com/data/avatars/m/5/5409.jpg?1650619365){kind=avatar}
![Juventino[RUS]](https://www.juventuz.com/data/avatars/s/5/5409.jpg?1650619365){kind=avatar}
Ok first of all @Bjerknes and @pjanic21 you are kidding yourselves if this referendum was won by anti-globalist intelligentsia or for any kind of anti-globalist cause. It was won primarily on the immigration issue. Of course the ideas upheld by The Schengen Zone are partly globalist by nature but in this case it has more to do with upper-middle ages middle Englanders whose only access to news is mainstream newspapers and television. That same media (which incidentally tends to be run by multi-millionaires who one would suppose have globalist tendencies) swallowing all the hype about EU immigrants running in to steal British jobs and about terrorists posing as refugees entering the EU to destroy their comfortable way of life. There is also the aside point that they often aren't shown the view that those refugees have been 'created' by wars perpetrated in a big way by 'Our boys' - the UK military forces.
If you couple that fear of immigration and islamo-terrophobia with the idea of Turkey being on the brink of becoming an EU member and, as one could suppose, a member of the Schengen zone while sharing a land border with Syria, already playing host to a huge number of refugees and the fact that they are a Muslim country - and therefore 'one of them' then what you get is a stampede of 50-somethings tripping over their family holiday photos from Marbella and Butlins to go and vote to get out of the EU.
--------
@Pirlo's Beard
As for the Scottish Independence Referendum (Indyref) - the three main points which were pushed by the Better Together campaign were;
- A NO vote to remain in the UK would see a 'DevoMax' situation where many more legislative and governmental power would be devolved to the Scottish Parliment and taken out of Westminster's hands
- An independent Scotland would not be able to use the pound
- The only way to secure your place in the EU was to vote NO and remain in the UK
These issues had a huge effect on the Indyref as they, especially the last two, carried a reasonable doubt to anybody with the capability to think rationally. We can see how since yesterday the pound does not seem so solid anymore and in fact the day after the NO result the backtracking began on all of our shiny new powers at Holyrood.
Most obvious and concrete, though is the fact that voting to remain in the UK did not in fact preserve my or any other Scot's place in the EU. We are being led out after an unquantifiable but assuredly notable percentage of voters in the Indyref voted NO to remain in the UK and in the EU. Now that seemingly solid guarantee has been reversed it is reasonable to assume that a large number of voters (remember that the NO vote won by a 5% margain - only a 2.5% swing) are now reconsidering their vote and would vote YES to an Independent Scotland in order to remain an EU citizen.
You could also add that people may have changed their mind due to the backpedalling on 'The Vow' as our promised new powers were collectively labelled and because of the uncertainty of the pound's future. There are many other points to consider, but this overall majority of Scots who wished to remain in the EU should and must not be ignored and while I agree with @JuveJay to an extent that talking of a second independence referendum is opportunistic in a way it is also a conversation well worth having considering how much the fundamental arguments which drove the result in 2014 to a NO vote have changed. It may be opportunistic but to ignore the change which has occurred would be neglegent, particularly for an elected head of Government whose heavily pro-independence party won a staggeringly convincing victory across Scotland in the most recent elections, to ignore.
- - - Updated - - -
Sorry if parts of that are less than coherent, I don't have time to re-read it
If you couple that fear of immigration and islamo-terrophobia with the idea of Turkey being on the brink of becoming an EU member and, as one could suppose, a member of the Schengen zone while sharing a land border with Syria, already playing host to a huge number of refugees and the fact that they are a Muslim country - and therefore 'one of them' then what you get is a stampede of 50-somethings tripping over their family holiday photos from Marbella and Butlins to go and vote to get out of the EU.
--------
@Pirlo's Beard
As for the Scottish Independence Referendum (Indyref) - the three main points which were pushed by the Better Together campaign were;
- A NO vote to remain in the UK would see a 'DevoMax' situation where many more legislative and governmental power would be devolved to the Scottish Parliment and taken out of Westminster's hands
- An independent Scotland would not be able to use the pound
- The only way to secure your place in the EU was to vote NO and remain in the UK
These issues had a huge effect on the Indyref as they, especially the last two, carried a reasonable doubt to anybody with the capability to think rationally. We can see how since yesterday the pound does not seem so solid anymore and in fact the day after the NO result the backtracking began on all of our shiny new powers at Holyrood.
Most obvious and concrete, though is the fact that voting to remain in the UK did not in fact preserve my or any other Scot's place in the EU. We are being led out after an unquantifiable but assuredly notable percentage of voters in the Indyref voted NO to remain in the UK and in the EU. Now that seemingly solid guarantee has been reversed it is reasonable to assume that a large number of voters (remember that the NO vote won by a 5% margain - only a 2.5% swing) are now reconsidering their vote and would vote YES to an Independent Scotland in order to remain an EU citizen.
You could also add that people may have changed their mind due to the backpedalling on 'The Vow' as our promised new powers were collectively labelled and because of the uncertainty of the pound's future. There are many other points to consider, but this overall majority of Scots who wished to remain in the EU should and must not be ignored and while I agree with @JuveJay to an extent that talking of a second independence referendum is opportunistic in a way it is also a conversation well worth having considering how much the fundamental arguments which drove the result in 2014 to a NO vote have changed. It may be opportunistic but to ignore the change which has occurred would be neglegent, particularly for an elected head of Government whose heavily pro-independence party won a staggeringly convincing victory across Scotland in the most recent elections, to ignore.
- - - Updated - - -
Sorry if parts of that are less than coherent, I don't have time to re-read it
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-independence-after-brexit-vote-a3280261.html
Bring it on! Come on lads, you can do it.
Bring it on! Come on lads, you can do it.
Don't know if been posted 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...edge-disowns-350-million-pounds-a7099906.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...edge-disowns-350-million-pounds-a7099906.html
Chiellini has a degree in economics from the University of Turin, so was inevitably asked about the UK’s decision to leave the European Union.
“It’s a story which shocked everyone this morning,” the defender admitted.
“Yesterday we went to sleep thinking that Britain would remain in the EU. Unfortunately that didn’t happen, and I think the biggest concern is the domino effect that this choice could cause.
“I don’t think it’ll change the economy, the only concern is a referendum in other states. I’m sorry that, having worked hard to create Europe, this vote is a symbol of the discontent felt across Europe.
“We should come together, and look for a political solution for these problems.
“A referendum in Italy? I’m not convinced that Italy would support leaving Europe. When there’s discontent you vote for change, even without definitive plans and I think that’s what has happened in England.
“I’ve read so many things. It happened in such a short time and there’s sorrow for Britain’s exit from the European Union.
“Maybe it won’t change much, but it’s a bad signal from such an important nation.”
http://www.football-italia.net/86320/chiellini-'spain-are-italy’s-bogey-team’
“It’s a story which shocked everyone this morning,” the defender admitted.
“Yesterday we went to sleep thinking that Britain would remain in the EU. Unfortunately that didn’t happen, and I think the biggest concern is the domino effect that this choice could cause.
“I don’t think it’ll change the economy, the only concern is a referendum in other states. I’m sorry that, having worked hard to create Europe, this vote is a symbol of the discontent felt across Europe.
“We should come together, and look for a political solution for these problems.
“A referendum in Italy? I’m not convinced that Italy would support leaving Europe. When there’s discontent you vote for change, even without definitive plans and I think that’s what has happened in England.
“I’ve read so many things. It happened in such a short time and there’s sorrow for Britain’s exit from the European Union.
“Maybe it won’t change much, but it’s a bad signal from such an important nation.”
http://www.football-italia.net/86320/chiellini-'spain-are-italy’s-bogey-team’
I don't remember what he ever did originally
Well sniffed out tho
Well sniffed out tho
Sorry I thought you are opposing the view of the posted article. That chart 1 is crazy 