UAPs (5 Viewers)

JuveJay

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Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
72,472
#41
What are you suspecting at this point, some Chinese drones?
I suspect most if not all are experimental craft of some sort over time, but that's just my view.

I'm almost certain there is alien life out there given the statistical likelihood, but at the same time the distances involved for possible advanced life capable of visiting Earth make it quite unlikely that they have visited within the era of modern human history.
 

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OP
U Picciriddu
Jun 16, 2020
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  • Thread Starter #42
    I suspect most if not all are experimental craft of some sort over time, but that's just my view.

    I'm almost certain there is alien life out there given the statistical likelihood, but at the same time the distances involved for possible advanced life capable of visiting Earth make it quite unlikely that they have visited within the era of modern human history.
    The distances can be bypassed with technology though. Look at quantum entanglement (the communication between entangled particles no matter at what distance) or simply worm holes, even though they shouldn’t be stable with our understanding so far, they fit in general relativity. We’d need centuries to build something close to all of this, but it should be possible. And than there are the things we don’t know yet of course.

    If some species succeed in travelling to another planet just by the sheer distances it surely won’t be by traditional travel like how we are planning to visit Mars.
     

    swag

    L'autista
    Administrator
    Sep 23, 2003
    83,483
    #43
    I like the thought proces behind all of this. If you ask very black and white if aliens exist than the answer is obvious given the enormous size of the universe plus the age of it. If I may quite Brian Cox: “life could be a byproduct of the right circumstances”

    Then let’s say hypothetical that we get disclosure. Governments lied, aliens decided not to land for whatever reason (contamination for example is a good one, just look what happened to South-America when Europeans arrived). How will it affect us and how did they got here? Will we head to a revolution, a sort of second enlightenment? What about religion? Will it be the end of fossil fuels? Or will we go to the opposite end with mass protests and possibly (civil) wars?

    I’m not really interested in the traditional UFO stories. I just want to know the truth and see how science and politics evolve around it.

    Personally I hope that it are aliens. We’d have so much luck if we’re part of the generation that get answers to one of the most fundamental questions (are we alone). Imagine having an open communication line with a civilisation thousands of years ahead of us. In the grand scheme of time humans are still babies
    I believe in panspermia pretty much. It's pixie dust sprinkled everywhere, where we even have ecosystems forming at volcanic vents 1-2km under the ocean. You can align that with Brian Cox or not.

    So I'm with you to the extent that I believe that life is spread all over the universe like @ßöмßäяðîëя 's jizz in every Motel 6 he's ever stayed in.

    But saying, "Hey, I can grow Sea-Monkeys in my toilet" isn't the same as saying, "There are alien lives visiting us from thousands of light years away with the explicit purpose of wasting tons of energy but ensuring they are never officially detected by governments."

    I think most of society is too navel-gazing, individualistic, and lonely these days to give a crap about anyone other than themselves and maybe their immediate family, let alone Space-Monkeys. Some will geek out and be giddy fangirls, like Rhianna released a new album. Others will be like, "So, it's like we discovered a new species of bear that flies spaceships. Now pass me the X Box controller."

    And I find some half-truths to what Stephen Hawking said at a talk I was at of his: "If superintelligent aliens have ever visited earth, we would know in the worst ways" (paraphrasing that it would be like the Africans when the European slave ships came).
     
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    PedroFlu

    Senior Member
    Sep 20, 2011
    7,163
    #44
    Until let’s say 6 months ago not, then by coincidence I listened to the podcasts of Grusch and Fravor. Now the burden of proof has shifted with all the radar data, it’s up to the government to convince me of something else
    I think you copied that phrase from Michu Kaku (not Lukaku). If you didnt, look it up
     

    PedroFlu

    Senior Member
    Sep 20, 2011
    7,163
    #46
    I guess Grusch also lives in a trailer park.

    For decades people that talk about UFOs are being presented as nutjobs, people laugh at them. But this time around it's a kinda different story, no
    People who have no interest in the theme think these sightings/experiences are rare. They're not. Very similar things are told to happen literally everyday, in different parts of the world, by different people, in different times. There's also a lot of physical evidence that is accumulated through time.

    The sheer volume of reports by common and simple people and the fact that they have nothing to gain from this, corroborrated by other circunstancial evidence, is more than enough for me to believe it. They are constantly validated by multiple people, sometimes entire cities, claiming the same stuff.

    It's really illogical to discard this possibility simply based on the sense of what we think we already know. I mean, it's not exactly a matter of belief, but of interest and oppeness on the theme.

    If someone tells me they saw an elephant fly, I won't be able to believe it. I think I know how elephants work. So if one has some solid supposed internal knowledge in the way that these things don't make sense, one won't be able to believe. Point is, there must be some openess to it, and also some basic level of understanding - we need to comprehend some before acceptance.

    So I'd say the proper word is acceptance, not belief.

    Anyway, It doesnt really make sense to think these things fly throught the universe. But they do somehow appear and disappear here. And Im not talking only about people seeing weird lights, but acually complex experiences/interactions that arent subject to interpretation of "what it was". It simply did happen or not. And as I said, there's a huge, huge cummulation of vestiges of it happening that, when seen in general context, actually become overwhelming. A big puzzle you fit the pieces, and it becomes clear as day when you distance yourself from it.

    Will USA government assume it explicitly now? Hell no. They probably dont know for sure what it is, theres few people with this knowledge, and they would have to admit to lying for 80 yrs or stg. Not gonna happen. Its not even the point though. If you're open to look for the 'cases' and what thounsands of people are saying, reality is shoving itself on our faces.

    I think this thing will be slowly be accepted as common truth by people overtime, and governement will only talk openly about it when it is no longer a "secret" - when majority of people accept it as a reality.

    Btw, I like the Jung correlation - quite on Jacques Valle direction.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I suspect most if not all are experimental craft of some sort over time, but that's just my view.

    I'm almost certain there is alien life out there given the statistical likelihood, but at the same time the distances involved for possible advanced life capable of visiting Earth make it quite unlikely that they have visited within the era of modern human history.
    I'd suggest you to look deeper into the evidence of these things actually happening before trying to find a reasonable explanation on how it happens. I mean, to really give it a try.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I believe that UFO/UAPs are a real and global phenomenon in the sense that people have been seeing them for millennia, and believe that other life exists out there in our galaxy/universe, but imo the evidence we have up to today does not offer anywhere near enough proof that UAPs are either alien vehicles or man-made tech engineered from retrieval of such vehicles, as suggested by the recent "disclosure". As Carl Sagan said, “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”.

    Until such evidence is presented, I believe that the theatre around it (especially in the US) is a continuation of the psychological/information campaign used by the CIA during the first Cold War, in which the UFO phenomenon was exploited as cover for classified military development and testing, as fear mongering of Soviet military capabilities (or conversely, to suggest to Soviets that US had access to far superior tech), and as distraction from clandestine operations (e.g. the coup in Guatemala in 1954).

    I think much of that playbook is being rehashed now as part of the new Cold War with China/Russia. This includes the race to militarize space, with the ramp up in “official” UFO disclosure since 2017 coinciding with a shift in focus towards space and satellite weaponry/defence.
    This is a solid pov, but thing is, this far, far away from being a strict American conspiracy theory. In Brazil there are thousands of cases involving very, very humble people, that have absolutely nothing to do with the USA.

    I mean, it literally happens the whole time here, repeatedly in some regions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The open-minded mystic in me thinks this is all really cool, and I'm excited to see where all of this conversation and info leads.

    The cynic in me suspects this is the US army looking for yet more funding to fight threats that are so dangerous we can't even see them.

    Btw

    I really recommend everybody read Carl Jung's essay on 'Flying Saucers' as he called them. Jung wrote extensively on his conceptualisation of the human psyche, and in that essay he affirms that whether or not they are physically real is of less importance than what he really understood was happening - the UFO phenomenon is the latest in a long line of myths that illustrate human history. Myths were a really important part of his work, as their congruency and ubiquitousness across the spectrum of human societies seem to point to shared aspects of the wider psyche of humanity- what Jung referred to as the Collective Unconscious, where as human beings we have a shared heritage of motifs and images from which we draw our myths, stories, concept of reality and therefore much of our lived experience. He called them archetypes, Plato had the same idea with his Forms.

    What I find especially interesting is *I'm about to get hella esoteric here, but if not in this thread then where, right? :grin: * what Jung mentioned in that many of the pervading myths share characteristics with the correspondences of the sign of that astrological age as per the precession of the equinox. This is a whole other can of worms, but in short Jung studied astrology extensively in his work when founding the analytical school of psychology, and found it a useful tool- not one working on a causal basis as does the world made of atoms and governed by the laws of chemistry and physics, but one which worked via what he called 'synchronicity': an "a-causal connecting principle"; which is much closer to how the subconscious and unconscious parts of the psyche work.

    To illustrate: both the myth of Christ and the myths of the Buddha follow similar threads in their teachings. These include forgoing material desires in favour of spiritual ones, compassion, empathy, love and charity. These are all decidedly Piscean traits, and we have been in the age of Pisces for the past two millennia. Even the idea of 'surrender' which is in the word 'Islam' has a link to Pisces, and from little I understand of Islam's teachings it also teaches Piscean ideals like pursuit of spiritual riches rather than material. These are three Piscean religions for the Piscean Age. I know more about the piscean motifs in christianity, and they include the word 'episcopalian', catholic bishop mitres shaped like fish heads, in scripture the repeated mention of fish: 'a fisher of men', the miracle of the fishes, the loaves and the fishes, the Ichthys, Jesus given fish to eat after his resurrection to name some. The recurrence of the washing of the feet is interesting because Pisces rules the feet. Then of course the baptism through water. I don't know, but I suspect those compiling the bible may have known that they were writing a Piscean myth, and I suspect that because of the importance in the story of astrologers following signs in the stars to find the prototype Piscean man at his birth.

    By contrast, Judaism strongly correlates with Aries, with the blowing of the ram's horn, Abraham seeing a Ram when he's stopped from sacrificing Isaac, the smearing of the Lamb's blood to ward off the plagues, the designs given in Exodus, Leviticus and Numbers for the tabernacle adorned with Ram's heads, Moses being described as having horns, and notably his fury at the Israelites worshipping a bull; which represented the previous age of Taurus. There are other myths from the same era which have similar characteristics. Romulus and Remus were cast out as kids, but were raised as kings (like Moses). Jason and the Argonauts were pursuing a golden ram's fleece, in Greece Theseus was a bull-slayer, Egypt attempted monotheism with Amun-Ra the ram-headed sphynx and in Persia the cult of Mithra emerged, who was also a bull-slayer.

    The point is Jung looked forward and considered what sort of myths we could expect in the incoming Age of Aquarius. He concluded that the UFO phenomenon was one such myth. We already have Scientology, which has a mythology based around ETs. The probable incoming of worship (or similar) of AI systems would also be strongly aquarian. Aquarius is linked to the archetypes of the mad scientist, the inventor and, especially through its ruling planet Uranus, high science and high technology. The other main thing is humanitarianism- which tbh we can see how existential threats to humanity have been emerging in the last century or so via nuclear weapons, global warming and of course the threat of alien invasion. The more any/all of these factors (or myths if you rather) lead humanity to work more closely together rather than to divide ourselves further and to develop technological solutions to these global problems the more Aquarian we'll be acting.

    This was probably hard to follow, sorry lol. Main point is that for me the physical truth of the UFO stuff isn't as interesting as what it represents in a wider picture and the wider frame of history.

    - - - Updated - - -

    1690453951634.png
    I dont know if you took this from Jacques Vallee, if you dont know him, go look at it. Its precisely the correlation he makes, and as an interesting coincidence, just today I was learning about this pov. and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronicity
     
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    OP
    U Picciriddu
    Jun 16, 2020
    10,968
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #47
    People who have no interest in the theme think these sightings/experiences are rare. They're not. Very similar things are told to happen literally everyday, in different parts of the world, by different people, in different times. There's also a lot of physical evidence that is accumulated through time.

    The sheer volume of reports by common and simple people and the fact that they have nothing to gain from this, corroborrated by other circunstancial evidence, is more than enough for me to believe it. They are constantly validated by multiple people, sometimes entire cities, claiming the same stuff.

    It's really illogical to discard this possibility simply based on the sense of what we think we already know. I mean, it's not exactly a matter of belief, but of interest and oppeness on the theme.

    If someone tells me they saw an elephant fly, I won't be able to believe it. I think I know how elephants work. So if one has some solid supposed internal knowledge in the way that these things don't make sense, one won't be able to believe. Point is, there must be some openess to it, and also some basic level of understanding - we need to comprehend some before acceptance.

    So I'd say the proper word is acceptance, not belief.

    Anyway, It doesnt really make sense to think these things fly throught the universe. But they do somehow appear and disappear here. And Im not talking only about people seeing weird lights, but acually complex experiences/interactions that arent subject to interpretation of "what it was". It simply did happen or not. And as I said, there's a huge, huge cummulation of vestiges of it happening that, when seen in general context, actually become overwhelming. A big puzzle you fit the pieces, and it becomes clear as day when you distance yourself from it.

    Will USA government assume it explicitly now? Hell no. They probably dont know for sure what it is, theres few people with this knowledge, and they would have to admit to lying for 80 yrs or stg. Not gonna happen. Its not even the point though. If you're open to look for the 'cases' and what thounsands of people are saying, reality is shoving itself on our faces.

    I think this thing will be slowly be accepted as common truth by people overtime, and governement will only talk openly about it when it is no longer a "secret" - when majority of people accept it as a reality.

    Btw, I like the Jung correlation - quite on Jacques Valle direction.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I'd suggest you to look deeper into the evidence of these things actually happening before trying to find a reasonable explanation on how it happens. I mean, to really give it a try.
    And let’s not forget it’s supported by data gained by high tech radars, plus visual sightings by pilots who have insane resumes. They have a lot to lose

    What I forgot to add at my last post about possible ways to reach other planets is the holographic principle, as said by Grusch during the hearings. There really are a few travel option out there, of which we don’t posses the technology yet.

    What also happened during one of the encounters with navy pilots is that a UAP got between two jets flying in formation. It’s a strong example of why it possibly isn’t any human technology, for the simple reason that we won’t take such risks with jets worth 50 million dollars. Unless it’s China or Russia out of the blue with something we don’t understand, but even than we might ask ourself what’s there to gain in a training zone for them.
     

    PedroFlu

    Senior Member
    Sep 20, 2011
    7,163
    #48
    And let’s not forget it’s supported by data gained by high tech radars, plus visual sightings by pilots who have insane resumes. They have a lot to lose

    What I forgot to add at my last post about possible ways to reach other planets is the holographic principle, as said by Grusch during the hearings. There really are a few travel option out there, of which we don’t posses the technology yet.

    What also happened during one of the encounters with navy pilots is that a UAP got between two jets flying in formation. It’s a strong example of why it possibly isn’t any human technology, for the simple reason that we won’t take such risks with jets worth 50 million dollars. Unless it’s China or Russia out of the blue with something we don’t understand, but even than we might ask ourself what’s there to gain in a training zone for them.
    Yep, if you put it all together, evidence is actually crushing. And military are telling just one bit of the story
     
    OP
    U Picciriddu
    Jun 16, 2020
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  • Thread Starter #49
    Yep, if you put it all together, evidence is actually crushing. And military are telling just one bit of the story
    Its mind blowing. I had to recover a few days after the hearing

    But still somewhere in the back of my head I keep asking myself that if it indeed are aliens, why not landing on Times Square, or if thats too much than why not showing your ships in a way that we know 100% that they're out there. And by that I mean not in a way thats its just visible for the navy.
     

    JuveJay

    Senior Signor
    Moderator
    Mar 6, 2007
    72,472
    #52
    Btw, I'd suggest you to look deeper into the evidence of these things actually happening before trying to find a reasonable explanation on how it happens. I mean, to really give it a try.
    First port of call for anything like this should always be to find the reasonable explanation before the fantastic, but these things will always flourish because the fantastic is more interesting, it's human nature. It's why people chase bigfoot, Loch Ness monster, Bermuda triangle and any multitude of phenomena, folklore or mysteries.

    I'm not closed to the idea, I used to be very interested in all of this back in the X-Files days, but I think now there's more "evidence" but also more exposure, more ways to discuss it to a broader audience than ever before. And the more it's discussed the more real it becomes.

    You can go onto social media and find a compelling and thought-out argument for any number of these mysteries or even far-fetched conspiracy theories, but I think if you're more predispositioned to believe in in something then that will always be your starting point.

    I mean, it's far, far, far more likely to be man made that anything from an alien planet, that shouldn't really be a controversial view.
     

    PedroFlu

    Senior Member
    Sep 20, 2011
    7,163
    #55
    First port of call for anything like this should always be to find the reasonable explanation before the fantastic, but these things will always flourish because the fantastic is more interesting, it's human nature. It's why people chase bigfoot, Loch Ness monster, Bermuda triangle and any multitude of phenomena, folklore or mysteries.

    I'm not closed to the idea, I used to be very interested in all of this back in the X-Files days, but I think now there's more "evidence" but also more exposure, more ways to discuss it to a broader audience than ever before. And the more it's discussed the more real it becomes.

    You can go onto social media and find a compelling and thought-out argument for any number of these mysteries or even far-fetched conspiracy theories, but I think if you're more predispositioned to believe in in something then that will always be your starting point.

    I mean, it's far, far, far more likely to be man made that anything from an alien planet, that shouldn't really be a controversial view.
    Me, personally.. I've never considered myself predispositioned to believe in it. I started taking the theme seriously a few years ago, almost by chance, and was surprised to see how actually serious this stuff is.

    While this predisposition to believe is true, it also works backwards - many people are predispositioned to NOT believe it, despite evidence. They are equally believers, despite calling themselves skeptics.

    Anyways. It's like someone who is deeply entrenched in kardecism asks a random person if he believes in it. "NO" shouldn't be an adequate answer for people who doesn't know the theme in similar depth. "I haven't sufficient knowledge or interest to say yes or no" would be better.

    I'm not talking specifically about you btw.

    To finish it off, your last sentence about likelihood of being man made covers only the "tic tac" stuff - that, I repeat, is only a tiny bit part of the whole stuff. It's much more than that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Its mind blowing. I had to recover a few days after the hearing

    But still somewhere in the back of my head I keep asking myself that if it indeed are aliens, why not landing on Times Square, or if thats too much than why not showing your ships in a way that we know 100% that they're out there. And by that I mean not in a way thats its just visible for the navy.
    It has to be by design (purposely furtive).
     

    JuveJay

    Senior Signor
    Moderator
    Mar 6, 2007
    72,472
    #57
    Me, personally.. I've never considered myself predispositioned to believe in it. I started taking the theme seriously a few years ago, almost by chance, and was surprised to see how actually serious this stuff is.

    While this predisposition to believe is true, it also works backwards - many people are predispositioned to NOT believe it, despite evidence. They are equally believers, despite calling themselves skeptics.

    Anyways. It's like someone who is deeply entrenched in kardecism asks a random person if he believes in it. "NO" shouldn't be an adequate answer for people who doesn't know the theme in similar depth. "I haven't sufficient knowledge or interest to say yes or no" would be better.

    I'm not talking specifically about you btw.

    To finish it off, your last sentence about likelihood of being man made covers only the "tic tac" stuff - that, I repeat, is only a tiny bit part of the whole stuff. It's much more than that.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It has to be by design (purposely furtive).
    Can you post some of the better things you have seen?
     
    OP
    U Picciriddu
    Jun 16, 2020
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  • Thread Starter #58
    Can you post some of the better things you have seen?
    I’d really advise listening to the podcasts or David Fravor and Ryan Graves at Joe Rogan (there are more options though if you don’t like JR).

    Skip to 2:20 here:


    Look how this one goes under water:


    Honestly there’s a lot of footage and I don’t have the time to write a long post. Just search in ‘pentagon released uap footage’ or something like that to stay out of interviews of local farmers somewhere

    Btw @JuveJay genuine question did you do a deep dive into this rabbit hole with recent data or are you writing from a pov of someone who didn’t?
     
    Last edited:

    JuveJay

    Senior Signor
    Moderator
    Mar 6, 2007
    72,472
    #59
    I’d really advise listening to the podcasts or David Fravor and Ryan Graves at Joe Rogan (there are more options though if you don’t like JR).

    Skip to 2:20 here:


    Look how this one goes under water:


    Honestly there’s a lot of footage and I don’t have the time to write a long post. Just search in ‘pentagon released uap footage’ or something like that to stay out of interviews of local farmers somewhere

    Btw @JuveJay genuine question did you do a deep dive into this rabbit hole with recent data or are you writing from a pov of someone who didn’t?
    No and I don't intent to. My initial reply was in response to the amount of "evidence" available for it possibly being alien technology. I'm open to the idea, but the phenomena of UFO/UAPs should not be synonymous with aliens.

    I'd imagine these events will become more frequent as time goes on, and I don't think it's because we suddenly got more interesting to aliens.
     

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