The NBA Thread (67 Viewers)

ALC

Ohaulick
Oct 28, 2010
46,255
My point is that no one gives a shit about a competition that is not the best. Unless youre in it for some locality bullshit.

Half the forum became Juve fans in Serie A's hay day.

Tuz would be dead if it was launched this year.
youre right, we’re better off with just the EPL thread
 

zizinho

Senior Member
Apr 14, 2013
51,816
So Warriors beat Nuggets in a MVP matchup between Curry and Jokic. I don't know who id pick honestly right now, no one has a clear case over the other because the best performers statistically don't play for the best teams.

Curry's pros are he's playing at the highest level offensively right now compared to anyone, but Warriors are 30-30. With him they are 29-23 though, and without him 1-7. They are a lottery team without him. So if he gets them into the playoffs that's his case.

Jokic is playing great all season consistently (played all games as well I think), but his team isn't in the top of the league either. Right now they are 4th in the west and 6th in the whole league (would be one spot lower if not for AD and Lebron injuries), and with voter consistency in mind, only Westbrook won the award with his team not being in the top2 in his conference, in the last XX years (no idea how long, but it's been decades), so that definitely works against his chances. Others who are playing great seasons but not on the level of those 2, but their teams aren't at the top are Doncic, Lillard, Butler, but neither has a case over those 2...

Then you have to look at the best teams to find counter candidates. Utah is the top seed, Mitchell carries the offensive part with a well balanced supporting cast, while Gobert (DPOY imo) is the defensive leader. Can't say much, I barely follow them, but imo Mitchell deserves a mention.

Now Phoenix. Chris Paul. The guy goes to OKC and they make the playoffs when everyone thinks they are lottery after PG and Westbrook leave. But they make the playoffs. This season without him they are bottom of the west. Suns last season were 34-39 (after being 8-0 in the bubble). This season they currently sit at 42-17, 2nd in the league. This can not be coincidence. The guy improves teams with his presence, defensively (top 5 defense this year) and offensively. His stats aren't on the level of Curry and Joker, but he transformed a lottery team into a contender. A 20+ wins turnaround (don't know how much exactly) and he leads the team in assists and steals, 2nd in scoring, 3rd in rebounds! He also missed only one game. There is the sentimental value of him being one of the greatest PGs ever, never winning it and maybe this being his last shot. But I don't hear anyone mention him so maybe they don't even consider him. To me personally, he'd be a candidate with Jokic and Curry, each having something going for them.

Clippers are 3rd in the league but they have 2 co starts. Kawhi played well but the team is about the same winning percentage when he sits and he has George performing on a similar level. He's not in it imo.

Brooklyn has Durant, Harden and Kyrie. Normally that would exclude each of them but they all played great, when they played. Harden carried them with Durant out for a long while, people even said he should be a MVP candidate, but he sits a lot. To counter that, they are 6-7 when he's out since he arrived. But he has no shot at winning, even though he played a great season and is leading the league in assists. KD missed majority of the season, the little he played he was great. If he had that level over an entire season, maybe he'd be a prime candidate. Kyrie also missed quite a lot time but this is one of the best regular seasons he had. But no one will pick him over KD or Harden.

Philly had a MVP candidate in Embiid when he played regularly, but he's just out too much. At his best, he's a little bit better than Jokic. He doesn't have the same level of playmaking but he makes it up on the defensive as a rim protector. But as I said, he is out too much to be MVP.

Giannis is again having a great year, same as last 2. But the Bucks aren't the no.1 team in the league anymore, so his chances are smaller than before. Maybe if they finish with the best record in the east, he becomes a prime candidate. Still games left to play...

Honorable mention, Julius Randle :touched: should ave never let him go for nothing

If I had to vote right now, probably Jokic with Curry and Paul behind. Giannis 4th. But let's see. If Phoenix finishes with the best record I'd give it to CP3. If Warriors finish higher and enter the playoffs, Curry's chances are big as well
 

ALC

Ohaulick
Oct 28, 2010
46,255
Nash had the stats to back it up and also was the key player in that team. The best player in the Suns is Booker. Also, don’t forget that these Suns were the same team that went undefeated in the bubble. They were already starting to click late last season and now are just continuing that trend. CP3 is a huge addition no doubt but he’s providing veteran leadership and play making, he’s not the only reason they’re as good as they are.
 

zizinho

Senior Member
Apr 14, 2013
51,816
Nash had the stats to back it up and also was the key player in that team. The best player in the Suns is Booker. Also, don’t forget that these Suns were the same team that went undefeated in the bubble. They were already starting to click late last season and now are just continuing that trend. CP3 is a huge addition no doubt but he’s providing veteran leadership and play making, he’s not the only reason they’re as good as they are.
Nash 19-4-10.5 without defense. Marion was 22-12-2-2-2, was he the best player (or Stoudemire in 05)? 54-28 record (Dallas 60-22, Spurs 63-19, Lakers 45-37). Kobe 35.5, 5.5, 4.5, 2 with Odom as his only good teammate (Mihm, Kwame and Smush starters lol). So if Kobe didn't win, why should this time Jokic or Curry?

CP3 16-5-9, defense and 42-17 record (only Utah ahead), top 5 defense in the league, top 7 offense. Booker was there last year when they were 12th offense and 17th defense and were a lottery team. OKC last season was 7th defense, this season 22nd. The impact he has is clear. It's called Most "Valuable" Player for a reason
 

ALC

Ohaulick
Oct 28, 2010
46,255
Nash 19-4-10.5 without defense. Marion was 22-12-2-2-2, was he the best player (or Stoudemire in 05)? 54-28 record (Dallas 60-22, Spurs 63-19, Lakers 45-37). Kobe 35.5, 5.5, 4.5, 2 with Odom as his only good teammate (Mihm, Kwame and Smush starters lol). So if Kobe didn't win, why should this time Jokic or Curry?

CP3 16-5-9, defense and 42-17 record (only Utah ahead), top 5 defense in the league, top 7 offense. Booker was there last year when they were 12th offense and 17th defense and were a lottery team. OKC last season was 7th defense, this season 22nd. The impact he has is clear. It's called Most "Valuable" Player for a reason
They would still be close to where they are without CP3. He is not the best player in that team, period. Why would he win MVP when there are other players in that team better than him?

You can bring up stats all you want, but it was clear Nash was the best player in that team. Also, keep in mind stats have been inflated since then, ball was a lot slower in the mid 00's.

I think you're the only person I've seen who's trying to make a case for Chris Paul as MVP this year. He's stil la great player but he just ended up joining the Suns as they were headed upwards. They already started clicking last season and have been playing better together. CP3 going there makes them much more solid but it is far from the reason they're as good as they are.
 

zizinho

Senior Member
Apr 14, 2013
51,816
They would still be close to where they are without CP3. He is not the best player in that team, period. Why would he win MVP when there are other players in that team better than him?

You can bring up stats all you want, but it was clear Nash was the best player in that team. Also, keep in mind stats have been inflated since then, ball was a lot slower in the mid 00's.

I think you're the only person I've seen who's trying to make a case for Chris Paul as MVP this year. He's stil la great player but he just ended up joining the Suns as they were headed upwards. They already started clicking last season and have been playing better together. CP3 going there makes them much more solid but it is far from the reason they're as good as they are.
Again, they were a lottery team last year without him. And not just last year. For a while now, since Nash left to the Lakers I think. Look at the Thunder with and without him. I provided you with facts that support his case, you only counter with he's not their best player. Was Nash the best player for the Suns when Stoudemire was raping teams? Booker has had better seasons scoring wise AND creation wise, where did that get the Suns? Look how Paul's presence transformed them into a top5 defense, while he's facilitating a top7 offense for them. If they finish with one of the 2 best records, he needs to be considered. I'd probably still give it to Jokic, but that he's not even mentioned by these voters is a disgrace.

How was it clear? Based on what criteria you say Nash is the best for those Suns, while at the same time say Paul is not here? You're using numbers to discredit one guy and then those same numbers don't apply for the other guy. IMO Kobe was the clear MVP that year, but based on the criteria the NBA has themselves established, Paul needs to be atleast considered. If he's out of top3 then it will put even more shade on this popularity contest

Maybe you should look closer then. A simple google search of Chris Paul MVP and see that maybe I'm not the only one claiming that. But sure, voters that know little about the game and don't even pay attention to games and just go by popular narrative might be on your side

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