The NBA Thread (79 Viewers)
- Thread starter Giovinco20
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And if it weren't for Scottie and Horace Grant, among others, the argument could be made that Jordan would have had a career parallell with Dominique Wilkins.
Keep in mind it took Jordan 8 years before he won his first title. He had no help early in his career, certainly not the help that would have brought him an NBA Championship.
I think that the fundemental difference are that players such as Jordan and Bryant stuck it out with their respective franchises until the teams were Championship ready, and played their entire career, or in the case of Jordan, the overwhelming majority of his career, and certainly all of his prime years with the same orginization.
Lebron stuck it out for 8 years. Danny Ferrry, who by all accounts, and all reviews of his dealings and drafting, received universal praise for the moves that he was able to do not only considering the restraints of the Salary Cap, but also by the unwilingness of the owner (Who, in hindsight, is one of the biggest tools in sports) to exceed the luxury tax threshold.
If an owner gives you a lemon, and demands that you make champagne out of it, you do what you can. James even led them to the NBA Finals as a 21 year old. Not many players can do that. Magic did it as a 20 year old rookie with the Lakers back in 1980 (Any laker fan will never, ever, ever, forget his majestic 42 points, 15 rebounds, 7 assists, and 3 steals filling in for Kareem when he was hurt in Game 6), but those instances are few and far between. Keep in mind. 21 years old. Its an amazing feat.
In the end, he did what he had to do, and yes, I harshly criticized it. I thought that he should have stayed in Cleveland. He should have done what the others before him did, and stuck it out with the franchise. But history has a way of being revisionist when all the facts are presented. The fact of the matter is, Dan Gilbert was not going to spend the money needed to get him the truly quality pieces. It was not going to happen. Proof positive of this was when his e-mail was leaked last year during the Chris Paul fiasco, complaining not so much about the trade, but how it was going to impact all of the other teams financially with the Lakers having a lower luxury tax hit. A luxury tax, by the way, that gets divided equally amongst the teams that are under the luxury tax threshold.
THAT moment convinced me to change my mind in regards to the Lebron situation. If you have an owner who is unwilling to do what it takes to get a championship, then you must, as a player, look elsewhere.
Did I like what happened in Miami? Certainly not. For the reason that I felt, that Miami basically got a franchsie player, and an all-star caliber player without having to give up anything in return except for money for the contracts. I thought that it would set a bad precedent, and when you hear about Dwight Howard, and Deron Williams basically dictating where they want to go in trade scenarios, knowing full well that being on the last year of their contracts that they could hold their current teams hostage, the seeds were in place for the players having total autonomy in the league, and that shouldn't happen anywhere, in any sports league.
The one thing that really upset me, and I still shake my head at this, was not that Lebron left Cleveland, but the way that he did it. I couldn't care less if it was for charity. It was self-serving, egotistical, and basically fairly classless to do that to the city and the fans of Cleveland. And in the end, I think he learned from that.
Keep in mind it took Jordan 8 years before he won his first title. He had no help early in his career, certainly not the help that would have brought him an NBA Championship.
I think that the fundemental difference are that players such as Jordan and Bryant stuck it out with their respective franchises until the teams were Championship ready, and played their entire career, or in the case of Jordan, the overwhelming majority of his career, and certainly all of his prime years with the same orginization.
Lebron stuck it out for 8 years. Danny Ferrry, who by all accounts, and all reviews of his dealings and drafting, received universal praise for the moves that he was able to do not only considering the restraints of the Salary Cap, but also by the unwilingness of the owner (Who, in hindsight, is one of the biggest tools in sports) to exceed the luxury tax threshold.
If an owner gives you a lemon, and demands that you make champagne out of it, you do what you can. James even led them to the NBA Finals as a 21 year old. Not many players can do that. Magic did it as a 20 year old rookie with the Lakers back in 1980 (Any laker fan will never, ever, ever, forget his majestic 42 points, 15 rebounds, 7 assists, and 3 steals filling in for Kareem when he was hurt in Game 6), but those instances are few and far between. Keep in mind. 21 years old. Its an amazing feat.
In the end, he did what he had to do, and yes, I harshly criticized it. I thought that he should have stayed in Cleveland. He should have done what the others before him did, and stuck it out with the franchise. But history has a way of being revisionist when all the facts are presented. The fact of the matter is, Dan Gilbert was not going to spend the money needed to get him the truly quality pieces. It was not going to happen. Proof positive of this was when his e-mail was leaked last year during the Chris Paul fiasco, complaining not so much about the trade, but how it was going to impact all of the other teams financially with the Lakers having a lower luxury tax hit. A luxury tax, by the way, that gets divided equally amongst the teams that are under the luxury tax threshold.
THAT moment convinced me to change my mind in regards to the Lebron situation. If you have an owner who is unwilling to do what it takes to get a championship, then you must, as a player, look elsewhere.
Did I like what happened in Miami? Certainly not. For the reason that I felt, that Miami basically got a franchsie player, and an all-star caliber player without having to give up anything in return except for money for the contracts. I thought that it would set a bad precedent, and when you hear about Dwight Howard, and Deron Williams basically dictating where they want to go in trade scenarios, knowing full well that being on the last year of their contracts that they could hold their current teams hostage, the seeds were in place for the players having total autonomy in the league, and that shouldn't happen anywhere, in any sports league.
The one thing that really upset me, and I still shake my head at this, was not that Lebron left Cleveland, but the way that he did it. I couldn't care less if it was for charity. It was self-serving, egotistical, and basically fairly classless to do that to the city and the fans of Cleveland. And in the end, I think he learned from that.
@King of Kings 
And to ass to that Kobe vs Lebron debate, many fans don't know that Kobe asked for a trade in the summer of 2006, because he couldn't win with the Lakers anymore, and he wanted to go to the clippers and was mad at the lakers for drafting Bynum, but Mitch went to trade for Gazol THE next year and to keep Kobe happy.
And Kobe went 2 straight years without making it our of the first round when shaq left, Lebron took a team of Gibson ( Rookie back then) pavlocic ( Meh), Gooden ( Meh²)
and Ilguaskas to the finals as 21 years old.
And to ass to that Kobe vs Lebron debate, many fans don't know that Kobe asked for a trade in the summer of 2006, because he couldn't win with the Lakers anymore, and he wanted to go to the clippers and was mad at the lakers for drafting Bynum, but Mitch went to trade for Gazol THE next year and to keep Kobe happy.
And Kobe went 2 straight years without making it our of the first round when shaq left, Lebron took a team of Gibson ( Rookie back then) pavlocic ( Meh), Gooden ( Meh²)
and Ilguaskas to the finals as 21 years old.
the king indeed
out of the east then(how many mehs is that)
@King of Kings
And to ass to that Kobe vs Lebron debate, many fans don't know that Kobe asked for a trade in the summer of 2006, because he couldn't win with the Lakers anymore, and he wanted to go to the clippers and was mad at the lakers for drafting Bynum, but Mitch went to trade for Gazol THE next year and to keep Kobe happy.
And Kobe went 2 straight years without making it our of the first round when shaq left, Lebron took a team of Gibson ( Rookie back then) pavlocic ( Meh), Gooden ( Meh²)
and Ilguaskas to the finals as 21 years old.
And to ass to that Kobe vs Lebron debate, many fans don't know that Kobe asked for a trade in the summer of 2006, because he couldn't win with the Lakers anymore, and he wanted to go to the clippers and was mad at the lakers for drafting Bynum, but Mitch went to trade for Gazol THE next year and to keep Kobe happy.
And Kobe went 2 straight years without making it our of the first round when shaq left, Lebron took a team of Gibson ( Rookie back then) pavlocic ( Meh), Gooden ( Meh²)
and Ilguaskas to the finals as 21 years old.
