Kareem’s my personal GOAT, but stepping back and trying to be a little more objective, I acknowledge MJ is the actual GOAT. Just got to a higher level, even if it lasted nowhere near as long.
And Barkley wouldn’t last two minutes in the league today. Well, not as a star player anyways. Fat, slow, overrated turd.
Blatt was the best coach James had, that's why I mentioned him. James didn't like him so he had to go, but it wasn't because of results or bad coaching. Spoelstra made it to the finals without James/Wade/Bosh, Jackson never did it without a prime top10 player ever. Not saying Spo is better but to say they aren't in the same stratosphere is based on nothing really.
Wade was a 6-7apg player in his prime. Pippen when he was the man managed 5.5, less than when he played with Jordan. AD also is a terrific creator for his position. Both Wade and AD are elite defenders on their positions. Pippen is probably the best defensive SF ever tho, I'll give you that. But on offense? Way behind those 2. Also, he made 1 All NBA 1st team in the Bulls championship runs, same as (now) AD.
Regarding competition, Cavs were outclassed against 07 Spurs (like every other EC team as well), and the Durant Warriors. Every other year he had either the better team or even playground. But you're looking only at finals opposition which is the wrong approach.
Magic is a top5 ever player (top3 to me) and that year led the Lakers to the finals without Kareem. He was still going strong and without the disease wouldn't have retired and led the Lakers to another trip to the finals probably. He faced Barkley and Malone (top5 PFs ever) in their MVP seasons with 2 all time great PGs in K. Johnson and Stockton. Those are 4/6 Jordans finals runs. KD is the 2nd best player either faced in a finals.
it doesent tell the whole story but regarding competition:
Jordan played the Bucks with 2 All NBA 2nd team players in Moncrief and Cummings his rookie year. Then Celtics with All NBA 1st team Bird his sophomore year. Then the same Celtics with All NBA 1st team Bird AND McHale. This was before the All NBA 3rd team was invented. 89 against All NBA 3rd team Prices Cavs and All NBA 2nd team Ewings Knicks. 90 vs 76ers with Barkley (1st) and Pistons with Dumars (3rd). 91 vs Knicks with Ewing (2nd), 76 with Barkley (1st), Pistons with Dumars (3rd) and Lakers with Magic (1st) and Worthy (3rd). 92 vs NY with Ewing (2nd), Cleveland with Price and Daugherty (both 3rd) and Drexler (1st). This is the 1st time he also had a All NBA teammate in Pippen (2nd). 93 vs Hawks with Nique (2nd), Cavs with Price (1st) and Suns with Barkley (1st). Pippen was 3rd team. 95 really shouldn't count since he came back late into the season but there he faced Magic with Penny (1st team) and Shaq (2nd team), while Pippen made 1st team. 96 again with Pippen making 1st team against Orlando with Penny (1st team) and Shaq (3rd team) and Sonics with Payton and Kemp (both 2nd). This was the only championship he had a all NBA 1st team player along him. 97 vs Miami with Hardaway (1st) and Utah with Malone (1st) and Stockton (3rd). Pippen was 2nd team. 98 vs Hornets with Rice (3rd), Pacers with Reggie (3rd) and Utah with Malone (1st). Pippen was 3rd team.
He played against 14 All NBA 1st team players (13 without 95), 9 All NBA 2nd team players (8 without 95) and 10 All NBA 3rd team players (with 4 seasons without giving out 3rd team awards). In 13 playoff runs (12 without 95). 37 series (35 without 95, no all NBA 3rd teams for 5 of them). Teammate made 2x 1st (one without 95), 2x 2nd and 2x 3rd.
James faced: 06 Washington with Arenas (3rd) and Detroit with Wallace and Billups (both 2nd). 07 Washington with Arenas (2nd, but missed series), Detroit with Billups (3rd) and SAS with Duncan (1st). 08 Boston with Garnett (1st) and Pierce (3rd). 09 Magic with Howard (1st). 11 vs Chicago with Rose (1st) and Dallas with Dirk (2nd). Wade made 2nd team. 12 vs NY with Melo and Chandler (3rd), Boston with Rondo (3rd) and OKC with Durant (1st) and Westbrook (2nd). Wade was 3rd team. 13 vs Pacers with George (3rd) and Spurs with Duncan (1st) and Parker (2nd). Wade was 3rd team. 14 vs Charlotte with Al Jefferson (3rd), Indiana with George (3rd), and SAS with Parker (2nd). 15 Cavs had Kyrie who was 3rd team (missed 5 games of finals), and played the Bulls with P. Gasol (2nd) and Warriors with Curry (1st) and Klay (3rd). 16 vs Pistons with Drummond (3rd), Toronto with Lowry (3rd) and Warriors with Curry (1st), Green (2nd) and Klay (3rd). 17 Toronto with DD (3rd), Boston with IT (2nd) and Warriors with KD and Steph (2nd) and Green (3rd). 18 vs Indiana with Oladipo (3rd), Toronto with DD (2nd) and GS with KD (1st), Steph (3rd). 2020 AD made 1st team, they played Portland with Lillard (2nd), Houston with Harden (1st) and WB (3rd), Nuggets with Jokic (2nd).
He played against 10 All NBA 1st team players, 14 All NBA 2nd team players and 18 All NBA 3rd team players in 14 playoff runs, or 49 series. His teammates were 1x 1st team, 1x 2nd team and 3x 3rd team.
Both probably faced 3 historically great teams, KDs Warriors, Duncans Spurs and Garnetts Celtics for James. Birds Celtics, Magics Lakers and Isiahs Pistons for Jordan.
In his 12 full seasons in Chicago, Jordan won half of his playoff runs. The 6 times he lost it was the Celtics with 4-5 HOFs, Pistons with 3-4 HOFs, and Moncriefs Bucks as a rookie. He never lost as a favorite, he never lost on even ground, he never missed the playoffs until his late late 30s after a 3 season break and on bad knees (they started the season on track of comfortably making them with Jordan being one of 2 players with atleast 26-6-5 in the league, until the injury). He never had more than one teammate make the all-star team (Pippen made 5 while with Jordan). He never had a player capable of averaging 25ppg+ in the regular season, let alone playoffs. He has won more titles and MVPs in less seasons. Won DPOY and made more all defensive teams in less seasons. 3peated (twice). Never lost internationally. Led the league in 2 different major stats multiple times. He is the clear #1
Scrunity aside, we can only judge on what we see. Pressure is something all athletes deal with and overcoming it is part of their greatness.
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It's arguable if players are more athletic. Look at guys like Jordan, Pippen, Robinson, young Shaq, Malone etc. The rules and emphasis on outside shooting allow a much easier game offensively for superstars. It's more difficult to double team, it's more difficult to clog the lane and have rim protection. Stats are less valuable imo. You have for example long rebounds from 3s, teams not attacking the offensive boards due to fear from transition points so it's mostly just the ball falling into hands of (often smaller) players, big men outside the paint. Lot of assists being just pass it to the open teammate and not you yourself creating easy baskets. Lot of triple doubles or high rebound/assist games from guys that aren't great at either
However, 1) Bulls team complement him perfectly. It's not like MJ start to won with them right after he arrove so I disagree about "he just had pippen" thing.
2) MJ had one of the best coach in the nba history
3) Once Piston went down, MJ didn't actually face a really great team
4) I know it was more physical back then but Ref were pro MJ always
I'd found really unlikely 90's Bulls would have been able to defeat GS team years in and years out... just like LBJ couldn't
However, 1) Bulls team complement him perfectly. It's not like MJ start to won with them right after he arrove so I disagree about "he just had pippen" thing.
2) MJ had one of the best coach in the nba history
3) Once Piston went down, MJ didn't actually face a really great team
4) I know it was more physical back then but Ref were pro MJ always
I'd found really unlikely 90's Bulls would have been able to defeat GS team years in and years out... just like LBJ couldn't
I wouldn't say the teams compliment him perfectly. It was 2 different set of players for the 2 3peats.
Most successful yes. Wonder how people would rate Phil if he never coached Jordan > Shaq > Kobe.
You mean once his team took them down
Late 90s Bulls are a bad matchup for the Warriors defensively. Harper-Jordan-Pippen-Kukoc-Rodman can switch everything on their death lineup. On the other hand the Warriors have no answer for Jordan. I'm not saying they would have won for sure (imo they'd have better chances) but it's a tough series. Pre KD Warriors get run out of the building
I wouldn't say the teams compliment him perfectly. It was 2 different set of players for the 2 3peats.
Most successful yes. Wonder how people would rate Phil if he never coached Jordan > Shaq > Kobe.
You mean once his team took them down
Late 90s Bulls are a bad matchup for the Warriors defensively. Harper-Jordan-Pippen-Kukoc-Rodman can switch everything on their death lineup. On the other hand the Warriors have no answer for Jordan. I'm not saying they would have won for sure (imo they'd have better chances) but it's a tough series. Pre KD Warriors get run out of the building
However, 1) Bulls team complement him perfectly. It's not like MJ start to won with them right after he arrove so I disagree about "he just had pippen" thing.
2) MJ had one of the best coach in the nba history
3) Once Piston went down, MJ didn't actually face a really great team
4) I know it was more physical back then but Ref were pro MJ always
I'd found really unlikely 90's Bulls would have been able to defeat GS team years in and years out... just like LBJ couldn't
80s had the best teams in basketball. More parity too. 90s had some good teams, but the top level talent was spread pretty thin, and weren’t really the super teams of the 80s aside from the Bulls. I still think the 80s Lakers and Celtics are the best teams of all-time.
80s had the best teams in basketball. More parity too. 90s had some good teams, but the top level talent was spread pretty thin, and weren’t really the super teams of the 80s aside from the Bulls. I still think the 80s Lakers and Celtics are the best teams of all-time.
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Those Warriors trying to guard Magic and Kareem would be hilarious to watch. Lol
At the end of the day it´s all just opinions. I just stated mine. I do agree it´s just speculative to compare eras. The game is different.
I was just a little kid when MJ ruled during the 90´s but have gone back and watched a lot of his games, he was amazing. No NBA player will ever reach his iconic status as he took the game global. Not to talk about his sneakers too.
Allen Iverson was actually our idol where I grew up, so relatable in terms of style, size etc. We used to copy all his swag, pull the left sweatpants leg up, his Reebok shoes, way he walked, crossover etc lol those were good times.
At the end of the day it´s all just opinions. I just stated mine. I do agree it´s just speculative to compare eras. The game is different.
I was just a little kid when MJ ruled during the 90´s but have gone back and watched a lot of his games, he was amazing. No NBA player will ever reach his iconic status as he took the game global. Not to talk about his sneakers too.
Allen Iverson was actually our idol where I grew up, so relatable in terms of style, size etc. We used to copy all his swag, pull the left sweatpants leg up, his Reebok shoes, way he walked, crossover etc lol those were good times.
At the opposite end, what a stinker from AD. Awful awful game from him. And Lebron kept it close for 3 and bit quarters and then had an Absolutely terrible last 8-10 minutes. Those fucking turnovers. Dude turned the ball over only twice in the first two games, guess he decided to make up for that with 8 tonight
they were great at getting rebounds and defending the basket but it's impossible to run around enough to cover Curry, KD, and Klay. Matter of fact, KD is unguardable, there is no way to defend against him other than injuring him.
I missed the 1st half, just checked the stats and he played just 11 minutes with 5pts, had foul trouble (2 in 1st qt and 3 at the half). But later, I dont remember him touching the ball in the 4th quarter. Blatant missuse of what should be our no.1 option on offense. Expecting him to go 30+ again next game
they were great at getting rebounds and defending the basket but it's impossible to run around enough to cover Curry, KD, and Klay. Matter of fact, KD is unguardable, there is no way to defend against him other than injuring him.
Jordan and Pippens on ball defense would be key on Curry and Durant. Harper on Klay would actually be the weakest link, but if you slow down (not stop, that would be too much) the star duo youre in a great spot. Who and how does guard MJ tho?
If Miami win game 4, big if, then we have a very interesting and entertaining series. However, this is how it's going to play out. Lakers jump to an early lead, and then Miami claw their way back in the 3rd quarter, reducing the deficit to 7-9 points going into the 4th. The Heat will make it interesting, probably cutting the lead down to 4, but in the last 3.30, The Lakers will stretch their lead to 11, closing out game 3 and winning by 6-7 points.
Lebron carrying us to that W in the 2nd half. Just killed it. Cut out all his shitty game 3, and 1st half turnovers from today, and put up 20 pts - 9 boards - 4 assists in the 2nd half tonight to pull us over the line against a Heat team that just kept battling and never let us build a double digit lead. Super clutch performance from LBJ. 0 turnovers, 7-7 from the free throw line, and scored or assisted 16 of our 27 pts in the 4th quarter.
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And AD’s D on Jimmy Butler was just fantastic, especially in the 2nd half. He hasn’t really gotten going again offensively yet, but his D is still so dominant that it makes up for slow games on the other end. Those 4 blocks
I never denied that. I actually think he's top 5 all time, but he's such a poser, a fake, pretending to be something he isn't. I can't stomach the guy. I once met a BEIN Basketball Sportscaster on a flight from Cairo to Doha, and he confirmed that LeBron is a bonafide Douche.
Now, go get me some quality maple syrup, so I can drizzle it over my pancakes, scrambled eggs and bacon
He's conducted a few interviews with the guy. You can gauge someone's personality from a few interactions, and first impressions do count. I'm not saying he's right, but there might be some element of truth to his words.
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