The Moral Law. Ratonality of Faith (3 Viewers)

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
38,294
#82
Wait, you think that in some point at time rape was actually moral?
Sure. At least, at some point in time people didn't really care about raping the women of the enemy. Who cares if Caesar rapes a girl in Gaul? As long as he doesn't rape a Roman woman, it's all good.
 
OP
rounder
Jun 13, 2007
7,233
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  • Thread Starter #83
    Sure. At least, at some point in time people didn't really care about raping the women of the enemy. Who cares if Caesar rapes a girl in Gaul? As long as he doesn't rape a Roman woman, it's all good.
    Okay, the Romans may have been okay with it. As are Americans when they kill innocent civillians in Iraq, at least they aren't American, right? That's simply irrelevant though. Regardless of how some people feel about it, it's still wrong. If I think Terrorism is justified and morally sound, it doesn't make it correct. It will always be immoral no matter what anyone thinks.

    That's not quite the point. Let me clarify, I am not asking whether or not rape was considered moral, I am asking whether or not rape was moral.
     

    Seven

    In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
    Jun 25, 2003
    38,294
    #84
    Okay, the Romans may have been okay with it. As are Americans when they kill innocent civillians in Iraq, at least they aren't American, right? That's simply irrelevant though. Regardless of how some people feel about it, it's still wrong. If I think Terrorism is justified and morally sound, it doesn't make it correct. It will always be immoral no matter what anyone thinks.

    That's not quite the point. Let me clarify, I am not asking whether or not rape was considered moral, I am asking whether or not rape was moral.
    Ow, I'm sorry, I didn't know I was dealing with an utter EDITED here.

    I won't continue the discussion, but I will tell you this:

    moral is what people consider to be moral.
     
    Jan 7, 2004
    29,704
    #85
    I supposed this is an appropriate thread for this story-

    Man who fled chemo therapy may be with missing teen
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30824587/?GT1=43001

    What do you think of this? If the child (16 years old) and his parents refuse chemo therapy for the boy's tumor for religious reasons and believe they have access to natural cures, should they be forced by law to receive it?

    IMO,
    Whether you are religious are not, if you do not want medical treatment, the law should not force it on you. For example, there are times I might refuse a vaccine shot because I am suspicious of them and their sources. But if there is a pandemic now, and it is in your and the public's best interest (they say) for everyone to receive these vaccines, do you have the right to refuse?

    i agree, but let's leave those decisions to people over 18 which are old enough to make them
     
    OP
    rounder
    Jun 13, 2007
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  • Thread Starter #86
    Ow, I'm sorry, I didn't know I was dealing with an utter EDITED here.
    I won't continue the discussion, but I will tell you this:

    moral is what people consider to be moral.
    What?

    Moral is what people consider to be moral?

    If we all considered the holocaust to be moral, would the holocaust be moral then?
     

    Seven

    In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
    Jun 25, 2003
    38,294
    #89
    Yep
    If killing millions of people was widely accepted as moral then we would think its acceptable
    The real question is why some values change and some don't. It seems that there are certain values which play a defined role in almost every society and culture.
     
    OP
    rounder
    Jun 13, 2007
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  • Thread Starter #90
    Yep
    If killing millions of people was widely accepted as moral then we would think its acceptable
    Sure, we would think it's acceptable because public opinion influenced us to do so. Does that make it morally correct? If we all believed it to be morally acceptable, then is it morally acceptable? Do you honestly believe this?
     

    Seven

    In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
    Jun 25, 2003
    38,294
    #91
    Sure, we would think it's acceptable because public opinion influenced us to do so. Does that make it morally correct? If we all believed it to be morally acceptable, then is it morally acceptable? Do you honestly believe this?
    If we all believed it was, yes.
     

    IrishZebra

    Western Imperialist
    Jun 18, 2006
    23,327
    #92
    The real question is why some values change and some don't. It seems that there are certain values which play a defined role in almost every society and culture.
    Well yeah, those are the ones that bee logically reasoned without using the R word, which turns 'morals' into something suprahuman :soapit:
     
    OP
    rounder
    Jun 13, 2007
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  • Thread Starter #95
    Well yeah, those are the ones that bee logically reasoned without using the R word, which turns 'morals' into something suprahuman :soapit:
    I suggest you read my first post in this thread.

    If we all believed it was, yes.
    Don't you think this will have seriously dangerous implications? Hitler and the Nazi's believed the Holocaust was perfectly moral, who are we to say it wasn't. Since there is no absolute standard we apply to, nothing can really be deemed as moral or immoral, it is merely a matter of personal choice or taste.

    I find this rather ridiculous for some reason.
     

    Seven

    In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
    Jun 25, 2003
    38,294
    #96
    I suggest you read my first post in this thread.



    Don't you think this will have seriously dangerous implications? Hitler and the Nazi's believed the Holocaust was perfectly moral, who are we to say it wasn't. Since there is no absolute standard we apply to, nothing can really be deemed as moral or immoral, it is merely a matter of personal choice or taste.

    I find this rather ridiculous for some reason.
    Neither Hitler nor the Nazis thought the Holocaust was perfectly moral.
     

    Fred

    Senior Member
    Oct 2, 2003
    41,113
    #98
    Neither Hitler nor the Nazis thought the Holocaust was perfectly moral.

    But if they did, then it would be moral?

    I too find this logic extremely flawed and has very dangerous implications.


    and just out of curiosity, what made you think that Hitler didn't believe the Holocaust was moral?
     

    Seven

    In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
    Jun 25, 2003
    38,294
    #99
    But if they did, then it would be moral?

    I too find this logic extremely flawed and has very dangerous implications.


    and just out of curiosity, what made you think that Hitler didn't believe the Holocaust was moral?
    Fred,

    if you really, really want me to explain why I think Hitler didn't believe it was moral, I will, but it might be a long story.

    The logic does have dangerous implications, but moral is a dangerous thing. It is not flawed though. You show me ONE error in that logic. In fact it's the only possible logic here. Look, I know you're a muslim and all, but deep down you know religion is a manmade product. Hell, I'm not even saying there is no God, but Islam has been, at the very least, influenced by man. Ultimately the humanists did have a point: it all boils down to man himself.
     

    Fred

    Senior Member
    Oct 2, 2003
    41,113
    Fred,

    if you really, really want me to explain why I think Hitler didn't believe it was moral, I will, but it might be a long story.

    .
    If you've got the time in your hands, then by all means do. I'm interested to know why you think he thought it was immoral. In fact he really believed he was doing his race a favor by eliminating the jews from Germany


    The logic does have dangerous implications, but moral is a dangerous thing. It is not flawed though. You show me ONE error in that logic. In fact it's the only possible logic here. Look, I know you're a muslim and all, but deep down you know religion is a manmade product. Hell, I'm not even saying there is no God, but Islam has been, at the very least, influenced by man. Ultimately the humanists did have a point: it all boils down to man himself.
    But going by that logic Seven then i can conclude that laws in Saudi Arabia like forbidding women from driving are moral. Because most Saudi's are convinced that it is not moral for a woman to be driving a car and walking in the street without a veil. Using your logic, it is moral because it is widely accepted by the Saudi people, right?
     

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