The Lebanese political crisis!!! (24 Viewers)

[Zé Tahir]

If only members Add something to their mind from this thread, there is really a good discussion is going on here, Tahir is also adding reasonable thoughts here, I agree with most of his points (I hope Rebel doesn't announce me Arab Hater for that :faq1: )..

Thanks man. I really hope Rebel doesn't think of as anti-Arab either. I'm not in any way being that.

But there is something I strongly disagree with you Tahir, France's Law for the religous Symbols is Arguable, it could be good or bad, it is something to do with the level of mind (how open it is). If you are a believer, you would ask the freedom to wear or have those Symbols, But If you are not, you might think in different way, those symbols sometimes are provocative or shows some fanatism, but seriously, why can't believers care that much about it?? it's not like you will go to hell without those Symbols..

Dude, those were just examples from the top of my head. But while we're on the subject...I do not agree with their law at all. I think things like the hijab, the Sikh pagri, the jewish yamaka (spelling), etc. aren't "symbols". They are ascribed by their respective religions. Now, as far as objects such as religious necklaces, rings, or what not are symbols. If that was what France didn't want, than I have nothing against it. There are symbols in every other country, and I don't see any problems. I've never seen anyone fight someone because of they were wearing.

About the Loudspeakers of mosques, churches or whatever, same here, If you are not a believer, well, to be honest, It is Annoying to hear Azan at 4 Am for example, or the time when you try to get some sleep. no? don't take it offensive, but try to look at it from the non-believer's point of view.

None taken. Again, I can totally understand that a country where the majority isn't Muslim, doesn't want to hear the call to prayer over a loudspeaker. If they don't want it, so be it. It's not like we absolutely need it. In this day an age we know when it's time to pray. In the same way, Christians shouldn't feel insulted that they can't ring their church bells in a majority Muslim country (just as an example, I'm not saying they do).

But comparing Bikinis to these like claiming it is acceptable against France's or westerns law about religious issues? is complete non sense.. Bikini is not a symbol of Christianity or any other Religion (be it Satan or Satan folowers).. it's not like the only people who are wearing bikinis are Christians, Try Turkey for example, or Lebanon or other non christian countries, it has something to do with freedom, freedom of thoughts.. But Education is a must to bring the mind to that level.

Again, I wasn't trying to give exact examples or anything like that. I was just trying to point out that certain countries don't allow certain practices based on their way of thinking, their morals, their traditions, their cultures, etc.

This whole bikini example has gotten way out of hand by the way

 

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[Ahmedios]

The thing is the way I see things is that fighting never leads anywhere but more destruction and more bloodshed and we all saw what happened in Lebanon in the summer. I laugh at the headlines that said Hezballa scored a historical victory.

Who wants more bloodshed? None. But the point here is that you find yourself suddenly entering a war you had no hand in it. What would you do then? You just have two choices; to fight or to die.

Let us say all this jumbalaya that Nasralla is doing works out in his favour and he gets the power he wants, what's after? Declare war on Israel and ask all the Arabs that feel like you to come to Lebanon and fight with him? Why do it from Lebanon? Why not from Syria? Why not from Jordan?

Do you think that I'm willing to fight Israel using the Lebanese land? What is the point? Just to destroy Israel and the method that I use makes no difference and the most important is that to achieve my aim. No, your conclusion is totally untrue.

What happens in Lebanon nowadays is an internal subject and if we can give a hand, we'll never hesitate and here I'm talking about the arabic nations excluding their vile leaders and governments. The war that Israel declared in the summer had nothing to do with us, I mean that we should have made more and more as Arabs for Lebanon but after the retreat of the Israeli troops, it was over and no more external clashes.

If we have to solve our problems with Israel, so this must be away from Lebanon. At the same time, I've mentioned before that we have to be one hand and to solve our problems with each other provided that not hurting or using anybody to achieve that aim.

 

[Zé Tahir]

I agree with you 100% that it is all up to the woman, at the end it is the relation between her and Allah. Maybe the point of difference between us is the firmness in applying pressure on females to wear El Hijab and I'm speak here about my country, I don't remember that I see a husband forcing his wife or a father forcing his daughter to wear el Hijab, also I've never heard that the government thinks about taking an idiot unreasonable step like resembling Afghanistan in making El Hijab as a law. Anyways, there are much bigger problems as you've just said.

In Islam we are taught to teach our children up until the age they can make decisions for themselves. After this period you are no longer allowed to physically punish them for ex. not praying, not doing hijab, etc. After this age we are adviced to pray for them. Therefore there shouldn't be an argument on who's firm and who's not. I'm a fully supporter of hijab, so you can't even argue that I'm a "liberal Muslim" (which by the way doesn't make any sense )

So, if I look under my nose, I'll perceive immediately that we are the scum of the earth. Thanks, Tahir.

What are you talking about man? I'm speaking of the leadership of the Muslim world and I'm speaking of the people with the sort of mentality I've been talking about. I don't know you, you probably are the exact opposite, but the problem is that there are less of you and more of them.

I've spotted, in your last paragraph, something very misleading. You are talking about more than 20 Arabic countries without concentrating in any of them, as if they all have lived the same problems with similar political and economical situations. Certainly, I know that we live in a vulnerable position but surely we should ask themselves when did the whole issue start?

The topic that you want to open needs a separate thread to be fully discussed. Who was responsible mainly for what happened in the entire Arabic countries that led them to the stand still situation that they are living these day? Every country is a complete different case.

First of all, I'm not talking just about Arabic countries. I speak of the whole Muslim world. But I mainly mention the Gulf countries most of them are sitting on money. No, I don't see any reason for a new thread to be opened. That goes against everything I've been trying to say here. This whole Lebanon problem is very much a part of what I've been talking about. If you haven't understood this, then you really need to go back and read my posts. This is like the foundation of my argument.

The Gulf countries differs completely from the Arabic countries of North Africa, also from Syria, Lebanon. Palestine and Iraq. I agree with you in every single word, simply, because you're saying the truth. The one who is responsible for such a farce is, without a doubt, the Arabs themselves who have been busy trying to just brag themselves and living a luxurious life, and at the same time thousands were dying from starvation.

I just want you to remember something; the Gulf countries only are the Arabic countries that your theory applies for, not the likes of Egypt, Syria, Algeria, Lebanon and Palestine. Iraq has been a unique case, I don't want to talk about now.

These countries are fairly new. How do you account for their actions prior to their creation?

What are you talking about? You are talking about the plight of my life (I can't find a better expression). I said before that I don't like to talk about the Arabic Presidents and Kings because just thinking about them makes me feel sick. They are just greedy bastards whose the aims of their lifes are to keep raising their money in Switzerland's banks and to inherit their illegal place to their generations and their symbol of life; my people could go to hell when the next train comes eventually.
Man, when I accept our social life, this absolutely doesn't mean that I accept the political one. I'm totally against it, in all the Arabic countries.

Good to hear that. Unfortunately though, they are a big part of the problem and ignoring them because they make you sick isn't going to help. If you want to fix something you have to tackle it at the root. That's the way I see it anyway.

Who are we?

What do you mean who's "we"?

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

i wanna reply to burke's post

yes, a woman is a property(all humans are the property of god:eyebrows

I don't know about that, I think there is no god.

 

[Bjerknes]

And people on this forum still claim my fingers smell like a cesspool.


Damn they really do.

 

[ReBeL]

Actually it is you who have to apologize since you blamed me for desrespecting Arabs or Muslims, when you knew I didn't do anyhting of those..

I didn't accuse you of disrespecting Arabs or Muslims ever...

And yes, you treat women like slaves when you force her not to wear clothes that are not "apropriate" for you.. I feel like I am repeating everything I said times and times again, If you don't want to admit that, I can't help you, it is not my problem.

This is the 50012th time I say that nobody forces her to wear whatever she wants, but she has to respect the traditions and norms. That doesn't mean that she has to wear Hijab, though...

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

And people on this forum still claim Andrew sticks his cesspool hands in my face and then i bend them back and call him a fucking jerk.

 

[Slagathor]

So, Erik,

Give me a list of countries that I can post from to be not HYPOCRITICAL...

I just find it a little disturbing that you would urge other people to risk their lives fighting rather than trying to establish some sort of peace while you're not joining the battle yourself.

Defending the Palestinian cause on an internet forum is hardly very helpful for those in Ramallah and beyond.

Maybe the word hypocritical doesn't apply here, but still. It seems a little... off.

He lives in Jordan

 

[JCK]

Who wants more bloodshed? None. But the point here is that you find yourself suddenly entering a war you had no hand in it. What would you do then? You just have two choices; to fight or to die.


Do you think that I'm willing to fight Israel using the Lebanese land? What is the point? Just to destroy Israel and the method that I use makes no difference and the most important is that to achieve my aim. No, your conclusion is totally untrue.

What happens in Lebanon nowadays is an internal subject and if we can give a hand, we'll never hesitate and here I'm talking about the arabic nations excluding their vile leaders and governments. The war that Israel declared in the summer had nothing to do with us, I mean that we should have made more and more as Arabs for Lebanon but after the retreat of the Israeli troops, it was over and no more external clashes.

If we have to solve our problems with Israel, so this must be away from Lebanon. At the same time, I've mentioned before that we have to be one hand and to solve our problems with each other provided that not hurting or using anybody to achieve that aim.

Well, the intentions of Hezballa are not what you say and that was the whole point of this thread. I rest my case.

 

[ReBeL]

I just find it a little disturbing that you would urge other people to risk their lives fighting rather than trying to establish some sort of peace while you're not joining the battle yourself.

I don't urge anybody to risk his life...I just say that nobody can blame what resistants are doing in Palestine, Iraq & Afghanistan...

Come and see how the corrupt leaders around Israel are protecting it, then tell me to try my luck with Israel...

If I have any possibility that I'll come face to face with one Israeli soldier, I'll be the first one to go, but I assure you that the soldiers of the Arab countries would shoot me before reaching my target...

There are examples for that, and I can send you names by PM - if you want - for people killed by Arab armies to forbid them from reaching Israeli borders...

Defending the Palestinian cause on an internet forum is hardly very helpful for those in Ramallah and beyond.

So, what do you suggest when I see lies in the forum about my people??

I know that I don't provide the Palestinians with anything useful talking to members in a football forum, but I'm trying to explain their viewpoints toward the accusations of terror and illogical violence...

 

[Slagathor]

I don't urge anybody to risk his life...I just say that nobody can blame what resistants are doing in Palestine, Iraq & Afghanistan...

Fair enough, I must've got the wrong impression

Come and see how the corrupt leaders around Israel are protecting it, then tell me to try my luck with Israel...

If I have any possibility that I'll come face to face with one Israeli soldier, I'll be the first one to go, but I assure you that the soldiers of the Arab countries would shoot me before reaching my target...

There are examples for that, and I can send you names by PM - if you want - for people killed by Arab armies to forbid them from reaching Israeli borders...

I don't doubt it

I know that I don't provide the Palestinians with anything useful talking to members in a football forum, but I'm trying to explain their viewpoints toward the accusations of terror and illogical violence...

Hey, I learned from it. I won't say I haven't.

 

[Ahmedios]

In Islam we are taught to teach our children up until the age they can make decisions for themselves. After this period you are no longer allowed to physically punish them for ex. not praying, not doing hijab, etc. After this age we are adviced to pray for them. Therefore there shouldn't be an argument on who's firm and who's not. I'm a fully supporter of hijab, so you can't even argue that I'm a "liberal Muslim" (which by the way doesn't make any sense )

So, there should be no arguments about that point anymore. Since, We have the same beliefs.

What are you talking about man? I'm speaking of the leadership of the Muslim world and I'm speaking of the people with the sort of mentality I've been talking about. I don't know you, you probably are the exact opposite, but the problem is that there are less of you and more of them.

Your first post about such an issue misled me. When you read it, it gives you an impression as if you are taking about all the Muslims. And this is confusing to talk about all Muslims in the world due to the reasons that I'll speak of after awhile. Besides, who are the people that you are talking about; the leaders or the whole Arabic nations? Just check it below.

To think that the birthplace of the greatest man to ever exist, the man who brought this beautiful religion is so back in the stone ages is embarrassing. How can you possible defend this. It's obvious that something needs to be done. We shouldn't defend our people just for the sake that they're our people. They are the scum of the earth and there's no denying that.

First of all, I'm not talking just about Arabic countries. I speak of the whole Muslim world. But I mainly mention the Gulf countries most of them are sitting on money. No, I don't see any reason for a new thread to be opened. That goes against everything I've been trying to say here. This whole Lebanon problem is very much a part of what I've been talking about. If you haven't understood this, then you really need to go back and read my posts. This is like the foundation of my argument.

this is completely irrelevant, you are the one who should return back to read your posts carefully. You've argued about lots of subjects at the sametime like the luxurious life of some Muslims, the reasons behind our situation, the armies protecting the Arab countries and etc...How can you connect all that to what is happening in Lebanon nowadays, and if I suppose that you want to return back to the main reasons behind all of this, you didn't mention the reasons but you only mentioned some scattered events.

These countries are fairly new. How do you account for their actions prior to their creation?

By the way, you are the one who started talking about the luxrious life that the Arabs have lived and when you mention that, so the first people who have to be taken into account are the Arabs from the Gulf area. And you were right, if you mean them, cause I can't exclude them from the whole mess of these days.

The point here is that you talk about the Muslims world as if they live the same life and they've faced the same troubles. Speaking generally about Muslims in, terms of politics, makes no sense due to the reasons that I've mentioned earlier. But if you talk generally about them from the religious point of view, so you can find specific points to argue about.

Good to hear that. Unfortunately though, they are a big part of the problem and ignoring them because they make you sick isn't going to help. If you want to fix something you have to tackle it at the root. That's the way I see it anyway.

I believe in the same theory as well. :eyebrows:

Oh, sorry...I have to be more civilised, the solution is the peaceful negotiations with both the strongest sides; The USA and Israel !!!

Why are they stronger? Think about it.

Sorry, I should have said who are they? And why?

 

[Ahmedios]

Well, the intentions of Hezballa are not what you say and that was the whole point of this thread. I rest my case.

At least, I've expressed my own viewpoint regarding the whole issue.

 

[Azzurri7]

If we have to solve our problems with Israel, so this must be away from Lebanon. At the same time, I've mentioned before that we have to be one hand and to solve our problems with each other provided that not hurting or using anybody to achieve that aim.

No thanks.

 

[Ahmedios]

No thanks.

What a comment! :eyebrows:

I'm not here to convince anyone about anything, I said it before. Maybe you think that I'm just saying some words which are usually said during demonstrations, it is up to you at the end though. :dontcare:

 

[JCK]

Like my friend Rab here, I don't have this Arab nationalism you keep talking about.

 

[ReBeL]

Like my friend Rab here, I don't have this Arab nationalism you keep talking about.

Arab Unity is impossible...

 

[Ahmedios]

Like my friend Rab here, I don't have this Arab nationalism you keep talking about.

Because, according to your profile, you don't live inside the Arabic world itself.

I said before that it is an old fashioned ideology and my country (Egypt) was the first one to buy the Arabian case and has kept losing its Arabian identity since the 70's of the last century. Even though, I'm proud to say that it is my ideology.

 

[Ahmedios]

Arab Unity is impossible...

Unity in what field?

So, how did Europe unite in just one organisation (European union)?

 

[ReBeL]

Because, according to your profile, you don't live inside the Arabic world itself.

I said before that it is an old fashioned ideology and my country (Egypt) was the first one to buy the Arabian case and has kept losing its Arabian identity since the 70's of the last century. Even though, I'm proud to say that it is my ideology.

But don't you think it is so hard to achieve it, Ahmed??

People now are not those who lived during Abdelnaser's era...Today's people don't really care about their roots. They care about how much they will get out of the unity thing...

I don't blame them though...