The Lebanese political crisis!!! (3 Viewers)

[Azzurri7]

I watch it now for the third time...

I'm trying to find one advantage for your Bachir...

In the last episode when four of his gang were killed, he ordered his gang to get thei revenge, and they harvested the souls of two hundred people for nothing but because they were Muslims...

It was called "The Port Massacre"...

What do you call being a leader and telling your followers to make a massacre??

A heroine act??

I don't know what exactly you watched, but Al-Jazeera comp about the Lebanese war is almost 6hours.

Anyway, to answer your question, though I don't like answering to a question with a question, what I don't like in Bachir?

He's the perfect example and leader that Lebanon needed during the war, If you watch all his speeches, you'll realize he has nothing against Muslims, nor any other sects in Lebanon, Infact It's Muslims who do have a problem with him for fighting Arabs, (Palestine, Syria).....

As a Lebanese Forces leader, he never spoke on the bahalf of the Christians but on behalf of Lebanon. He wanted to free lot of cities for the Muslims in Lebanon that were occupied by Syrians and Palestinians...."Saida, Damour, Beqa'aa etc" Lot of Muslims where in these areas and Bachir did Indeed free 80-85% of them during the war.

He believed in something called 10452, meaning that all Muslim Areas to Christians to Druz to every single sects in Lebanon, should live in this 10452, without any foreign soldier in this country but the Lebanese soldier. He even used to criticize the States more than Syria.

It's simple, he didn't want any foreigner in our country. Isn't that a right?

He was also kidnapped by the palestinians when he was a college student, this affected him alot, when he became Lebanese Forces leader, he said "The worst thing is to be kidnapped in your land by strangers".

Don't get me wrong here Rebel, like I told you before I do repsect "Qadeeyya l Falasteneyye" to be more clear, but when It comes to someone's land, I'll have to step with my Lebanese leader/pal.


Like Bachir always said...."We were attacked for being Christians, but we fought as Lebanese". Thats how a true leader would think.

 

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[Rhizoid]

I'm not defending what Palestinians did. The pics of that ghetto I showed you has a refugee camp there full of Palestinians, which by the way Hezballah are against their naturalisation into Lebanese citizens and FOR their right of return to their homeland.

Of course, I just hate a few laws (Hezballah support this) where they're not allowed to work etc. THat's against human rights.

This has led to several grey areas which till today are baffling the current regime - i.e. if a Palestinian resided in Lebanon for over 10 years. If a Palestinian holds a recognised university degree in Lebanon. If a Palestinian is married to a Lebanese etc.

Re Bachir Gemayel him along with his Leb Forces are a bunch of hypocrites. Where the hell were they when our 10452 was being occupied by the IDF? Of course Hezballah (Amal were the first ones, actually) were going to side with the PLO at the time since they were "fellow" Arabs.

It was inevitable that the PLO would leave Lebanon somehow, if not Israel, then one of the militias would've turned on them. No way the people would've accepted a Beirut suburb as a huge "Ain el Helweh"-style camp.

 

[Rhizoid]

I don't know what exactly you watched, but Al-Jazeera comp about the Lebanese war is almost 6hours.

Anyway, to answer your question, though I don't like answering to a question with a question, what I don't like in Bachir?

He's the perfect example and leader that Lebanon needed during the war, If you watch all his speeches, you'll realize he has nothing against Muslims, nor any other sects in Lebanon, Infact It's Muslims who do have a problem with him for fighting Arabs, (Palestine, Syria).....

As a Lebanese Forces leader, he never spoke on the bahalf of the Christians but on behalf of Lebanon. He wanted to free lot of cities for the Muslims in Lebanon that were occupied by Syrians and Palestinians...."Saida, Damour, Beqa'aa etc" Lot of Muslims where in these areas and Bachir did Indeed free 80-85% of them during the war.

He believed in something called 10452, meaning that all Muslim Areas to Christians to Druz to every single sects in Lebanon, should live in this 10452, without any foreign soldier in this country but the Lebanese soldier. He even used to criticize the States more than Syria.

It's simple, he didn't want any foreigner in our country. Isn't that a right?

He was also kidnapped by the palestinians when he was a college student, this affected him alot, when he became Lebanese Forces leader, he said "The worst thing is to be kidnapped in your land by strangers".

Don't get me wrong here Rebel, like I told you before I do repsect "Qadeeyya l Falasteneyye" to be more clear, but when It comes to someone's land, I'll have to step with my Lebanese leader/pal.


Like Bachir always said...."We were attacked for being Christians, but we fought as Lebanese". Thats how a true leader would think.

Bachir Gemayel allied with Israel. An illegitimate state, that time and time again f*cked our country. Their supporters to this day still dream about slaughtering Muslims by their identification cards (a qatl 3al hawiyye). Their logo isn't any more peaceful than Hezballah's - a Crucifix in the shape of a dagger

 

[JCK]

Bachir Gemayel allied with Israel. An illegitimate state, that time and time again f*cked our country. Their supporters to this day still dream about slaughtering Muslims by their identification cards (a qatl 3al hawiyye). Their logo isn't any more peaceful than Hezballah's - a Crucifix in the shape of a dagger

Killing on the identification was taking place on both sides, get your facts straight, ask about Black Saturday, (al sabt el aswad)

ReBeL, trust me, under the effect of heroine, you will not be able to move yourself. Then again if you want to mention what Christian militias used to do, what al murabiton and amal used to do can also be mentioned, let us not go back to the ugly civil war. Or wait, you as a Palestinian actually benefit from it

Another thing to Rhizoid, no matter how you turn it, Bachir was the best thing that ever happened to Lebanon, this is why Syria got rid of him.

 

[Azzurri7]

I'm not defending what Palestinians did. The pics of that ghetto I showed you has a refugee camp there full of Palestinians, which by the way Hezballah are against their naturalisation into Lebanese citizens and FOR their right of return to their homeland.

I'm not talking about Hezbollah today, I'm talking about the Civil war time. Actually If it was up to Hezbollah, they'd be the first ones to get rid of the Palestinians in our land.

We all know what Hasan Nasrallah in South of Lebanon (Bezoreyye) did at the age of 17 or 18 to some Palestinians, which then forced him to leave the South and move to Baalbeck. We all know how he feels towards Palestinians, but the sad thing is that Palestinians do believe him.

Re Bachir Gemayel him along with his Leb Forces are a bunch of hypocrites. Where the hell were they when our 10452 was being occupied by the IDF? Of course Hezballah (Amal were the first ones, actually) were going to side with the PLO at the time since they were "fellow" Arabs.

My friend....By the time that Hezbollah party began or started in1982, Bachir was dead (Incase you didn't know). There was nothing called IDF when Christians were in a battle with Palestinians. So I really fail to get your point.

Fellow Arabs? hehe, also incase you didn't know, your fellow Arabs are the reason civil war started in Lebanon. Unfortunately you would go to their side, I wouldn't. Neither I would go to Israeli side.

The thing most of you fail to see/realize is that you consider the likes of Yasser Arafat, Hafez Assad, and his son to be "fellow" While the likes of Olmert and Sharon as an enemy....When Infact these arabs that I mentioned their names did mess up our country twice If not more than what Israeli did.

When Muslim leaders were recieving arms/money etc from Syria, Arafet of course I'd want Christians to recieve arms/money from the Israeli's....

Why these party's Hezbollah and others are allowed to recieve arms and cash from Syria, and others are not allowed to recieve from Israel? I'd take Olmert anyday/anytime over Assad's regime....and I would also be more than happy to be helped by the IDF or whatever you wanna call them, If my life is Indeed in danger. We've seen what Syria's regime did to our Lebanon, and we've see what Sharon did before. I wont choose any of them but If I was forced I'll go with Sharon.

 

[ReBeL]

Thanks, Rab...

Although I have some points against your last post, but I don't think I'll convince you ever, so be it...

ReBeL, trust me, under the effect of heroine, you will not be able to move yourself. Then again if you want to mention what Christian militias used to do, what al murabiton and amal used to do can also be mentioned, let us not go back to the ugly civil war. Or wait, you as a Palestinian actually benefit from it

What can I benefit from a war in an Arab country??

 

[Azzurri7]

Bachir Gemayel allied with Israel. An illegitimate state, that time and time again f*cked our country. Their supporters to this day still dream about slaughtering Muslims by their identification cards (a qatl 3al hawiyye). Their logo isn't any more peaceful than Hezballah's - a Crucifix in the shape of a dagger

Are you for real? Did you even follow the Lebanese civil war my friend?

Qat3 3al haweiyye took place ON BOTH SIDES.......

and FFS lets stop with their supporters to this day would dream about slaughtering Muslims, If thats the case then sure Aoun's supporters have the same wish. Get your facts straight.

 

[ReBeL]

There was nothing called IDF when Christians were in a battle with Palestinians. So I really fail to get your point.

When Muslim leaders were recieving arms/money etc from Syria, Arafet of course I'd want Christians to recieve arms/money from the Israeli's....

Those two points make me think twice before going on in this dicussion...

Did you hear of Tal Alza'atar, by the way??

 

[Azzurri7]

Those two points make me think twice before going on in this dicussion...

Did you hear of Tal Alza'atar, by the way??

Of course I know about Tal l Zaatar.

In 1976, IDF wasn't as the same IDF in 1982. What happened in Tal Al Zaatar was a revange to what Yasser Arafat did in Christian areas, killing 200 women and children. Bashir that day lost his temper and couldn't support Arafat's gang.

What happened in Tal l Zaatar was 100% backed by Hafez Al Assad, my friend. The same goes in Sabra and Shatilla.

 

[JCK]

Thanks, Rab...

Although I have some points against your last post, but I don't think I'll convince you ever, so be it...


What can I benefit from a war in an Arab country??

Why did the Palestinians start the war in Lebanon?

 

[ReBeL]

Of course I know about Tal l Zaatar.

In 1976, IDF wasn't as the same IDF in 1982. What happened in Tal Al Zaatar was a revange to what Yasser Arafat did in Christian areas, killing 200 women and children. Bashir that day lost his temper and couldn't support Arafat's gang.

What happened in Tal l Zaatar was 100% backed by Hafez Al Assad, my friend. The same goes in Sabra and Shatilla.

My point exactly is that Syria was the party that rocked that camp on the heads of its inhabitants, and you tell me later that Arafat was armed by Syria!!

I think Oun will get his punishment for what he did in that camp though...

 

[Azzurri7]

My point exactly is that Syria was the party that rocked that camp on the heads of its inhabitants, and you tell me later that Arafat was armed by Syria!!

I think Oun will get his punishment for what he did in that camp though...

I don't think I ever said Arafat was armed by Syria....I think he was armed by Lybia (not sure though) maybe you know better.

 

[ReBeL]

Why did the Palestinians start the war in Lebanon?

Look, Jacque...

I totally understand your point...

Those palestinians that were a part of the Lebanon war are the same idiots who are trying to make a civil war in Gaza...

They became just like the other Arab leaders, "So Corrupt"...

They live by making more troubles and by the support of USA & Israel...

Those idiots don't represent me ever, and they hurt your country so much, I know...

Well, I even think that you have to catch the criminal called "Sultan Abul3ainin" who's hiding like a chicken in Al-Rashedeyya Camp because he doesn't bring anything good to Palestinians in Lebanon, but more troubles...

My point briefly: "I know that SOME Palestinians were so hurtful to Lebanon, but going on with treating ALL Palestinians in Lebanon as animals won't make the peace prevail between the two neighbour peoples since thousands of years..."

 

[ReBeL]

I don't think I ever said Arafat was armed by Syria....I think he was armed by Lybia (not sure though) maybe you know better.

He was supported by the Gulf countries, especially Kuwait and Saudi Arabia...

 

[Rhizoid]

Killing on the identification was taking place on both sides, get your facts straight, ask about Black Saturday, (al sabt el aswad)

ReBeL, trust me, under the effect of heroine, you will not be able to move yourself. Then again if you want to mention what Christian militias used to do, what al murabiton and amal used to do can also be mentioned, let us not go back to the ugly civil war. Or wait, you as a Palestinian actually benefit from it

Another thing to Rhizoid, no matter how you turn it, Bachir was the best thing that ever happened to Lebanon, this is why Syria got rid of him.

I'm not trying to justify anyone's actions during the war. I was never in Lebanon during the civil war, and even if I was, I wouldn't have been old enough to understand wtf was going on.

I am aware that everyone did killing on identification in late '75 from all sides. Unfortunately there are still extremist LFers who are stuck back in those days. You get your facts straight! Leb Forces ulterior motive that Gemayel-Geagea wanted to establish an all Christian Lebanon that stretches beyond al Arz all the way up to Lattakia in Syria. Allying with Israel would've been the key to this goal, and had they succeeded no doubt their Lebanon would've been extremely prosperous.

Where does that leave the Shi'a? Mind you, at that time the Shi'a were still under the influence of Moussa Sadr's Haraket el Mahroumin. They wanted a voice in government and better standards of living. The Sunni's were divided into Mourabitoun, Al Saaeka and other "Nasserist" style groups.

I'll be the first to admit, Bachir's speeches are very much appealing from a Lebanese perspective. But when you see LF today, their points of view are very much different than his "discourse". Even subtle anti-Muslim propaganda could be seen on their website, not sure if they edited that out now since it's in "fashion" to be anti-sectarian. How can I know what was Bachir's main goal? Allying with Israel, and then committing Sabra & Chatila...seems to be quite dodgy for a man proclaiming to be someone who wants to unite Lebanon.

 

[mnementh]

No he will go down in history as an inspirational leader that lead his FREEDOM FIGHTERS against the foreign aggressors in our land. His humble army fought one of the most technically advanced armies in the world, and emerged victorious.

Ya 3ayb el shoum 3al Arab who cannot see this. For FIFTY years plus, going on sixty, nobody has done jack shit against the Zionist enemy, and now you're trying to undermine Hezballah's accomplishment.

You're like one those people in the 1984 novel by George Orwell, ever read it ? Can't believe you actually believe that stuff lol.

 

[mnementh]

Shut up, my dear...

Enjoy the few years you'll stay there...

Don't tell other users to shut up. Nobody is going anywhere.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Don't tell other users to shut up. Nobody is going anywhere.

I think the Sicarii said that once, and we all know what happened

 

[mnementh]

Yeah, Israel exists and the Romans are just a (crappy?) football team

 

[Igal]

Shut up, my dear...

Enjoy the few years you'll stay there...

"my dear" tell to your girlfriend, not to me. And don't tell me to shut up as I live in a free country where I'm entitled to speak my mind. This forum is for everybody, not just for your personal opinions and false propaganda.
Enjoy your illusions about the end of Israel. You and I both know it's not gonna happen...