The Holocaust (14 Viewers)

[Lawnchair Bes]

I think he has a reason, but he can't really answer the question, can't explain it. It's a gut feeling, well more than a gut feeling.

didn't george bush take a lot of his decisions based on that theory?

 

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[Lawnchair Bes]

Fred is putting himself in a strange situation. On the one hand he's not "religious" like some cleric. On the other hand he's committed to his faith.

So if I may ask "how" religious are you?

did someone say new thread + poll?

 

[Eddy]

Not enough gunfights.

The Pianist ? One of my favourites.

 

[Martin]

didn't george bush take a lot of his decisions based on that theory?

Cmon man, it's not the same thing. Following a religion with strict rules based on irrational foundations is one thing, making a preference of which nationality to marry is pretty harmless. I mean what's the risk factor?

 

[Fred]

Q. Who is a Muslim?
A. Someone who says he is.

See how that works? I don't know what people actually believe or not. The best I can do is take a statement, like the cops do. Of course you can say he's not technically a Muslim, but you can't prove it. And someone who's in a sensitive situation will say it to get out of a jam, yes?

Wait, so if Seven say's he's a muslim then he's a muslim?

Nope there are certain criteria to be satisfied before one can be considered a muslim.
Faith or belief in the Oneness of God and the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad

Without that, you are not a muslim period.

 

[Zé Tahir]

Q. Who is a Muslim?
A. Someone who says he is.

See how that works? I don't know what people actually believe or not. The best I can do is take a statement, like the cops do. Of course you can say he's not technically a Muslim, but you can't prove it. And someone who's in a sensitive situation will say it to get out of a jam, yes?

You're absolutely right but the question is who on earth has claimed to be a Muslim but doesn't believe in God? It doesn't make sense. It's like believing in education but not believing in textbooks.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

martin, because it sees people based on the lowest common denominator. it's the idea behind it that bothers me, the conscientious decision

and fred, the laws of canada state that it is not the government who decides the validity of one's religion and one's belief in that religion. think of the consequences if that were the case

 

[Fred]

Fred is putting himself in a strange situation. On the one hand he's not "religious" like some cleric. On the other hand he's committed to his faith.

So if I may ask "how" religious are you?

Is it all black and white to you?

Of course i am not as religious as a cleric, that does not mean i am willing to let go of my faith.

 

[Martin]

You're absolutely right but the question is who on earth has claimed to be a Muslim but doesn't believe in God? It doesn't make sense. It's like believing in education but not believing in textbooks.

Hey, I used to say I was Catholic and I never believed in god. But I was "in the club". There are lots of Jews who don't believe in god. Are you saying it can't happen?

Religious belief is not some kind of hygienic aspect separate from everything else, it's deeply intertwined with social life, as it indeed makes great efforts to be.

 

[Martin]

Is it all black and white to you?

Of course i am not as religious as a cleric, that does not mean i am willing to let go of my faith.

If it were black and white would I be asking the question?

Isn't it precisely because it's not black and white that I did?

 

[Zé Tahir]

Hey, I used to say I was Catholic and I never believed in god. But I was "in the club". There are lots of Jews who don't believe in god. Are you saying it can't happen?

Religious belief is not some kind of hygienic aspect separate from everything else, it's deeply intertwined with social life, as it indeed makes great efforts to be.

No, it's possible..it's just funny

 

[Fred]

martin, because it sees people based on the lowest common denominator. it's the idea behind it that bothers me, the conscientious decision

and fred, the laws of canada state that it is not the government who decides the validity of one's religion and one's belief in that religion. think of the consequences if that were the case

Yes it is not up to the government to decide the validity of one's religion. When did i say otherwise?

 

[Martin]

Wait, so if Seven say's he's a muslim then he's a muslim?

Nope there are certain criteria to be satisfied before one can be considered a muslim.
Faith or belief in the Oneness of God and the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad

Without that, you are not a muslim period.

So all Seven would have to do is to say those things and he'd be a legit Muslim, wouldn't he? Basically whatever a person says goes, doesn't it?

Explain to me how you can verify that someone who claims to be a Muslim isn't.

 

[Joaco]

Hey, I used to say I was Catholic and I never believed in god. But I was "in the club". There are lots of Jews who don't believe in god. Are you saying it can't happen?

Religious belief is not some kind of hygienic aspect separate from everything else, it's deeply intertwined with social life, as it indeed makes great efforts to be.

Really? that's very interesting. I've never heard something like that before, but, as you say, must be something intertwined with social life, the need to be accepted by the rest.

 

[Fred]

So all Seven would have to do is to say those things and he'd be a legit Muslim, wouldn't he? Basically whatever a person says goes, doesn't it?

Explain to me how you can verify that someone who claims to be a Muslim isn't.

We cannot verify, and actually its not up to us to verify.

If Seven say's he's a muslim, it doesn't mean that he is a muslim, unless he satisfies the said criteria. Now i can't see whats inside his mind and heart, so i'd never know if he was really a muslim or if he wasn't. But like i said, its not up to me to verify if he is or if he's not.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

Yes it is not up to the government to decide the validity of one's religion. When did i say otherwise?

same goes for you.


martin said it

So all Seven would have to do is to say those things and he'd be a legit Muslim, wouldn't he? Basically whatever a person says goes, doesn't it?

Explain to me how you can verify that someone who claims to be a Muslim isn't.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

We cannot verify, and actually its not up to us to verify.

If Seven say's he's a muslim, it doesn't mean that he is a muslim, unless he satisfies the said criteria. Now i can't see whats inside his mind and heart, so i'd never know if he was really a muslim or if he wasn't. But like i said, its not up to me to verify if he is or if he's not.

and you are the same guy who said 7 wasnt a muslim

 

[Fred]

read my above post. It's not up to me to verify if Seven is a real muslim or if he's just faking it.

 

[Zé Tahir]

So all Seven would have to do is to say those things and he'd be a legit Muslim, wouldn't he? Basically whatever a person says goes, doesn't it?

Explain to me how you can verify that someone who claims to be a Muslim isn't.

We cannot verify, and actually its not up to us to verify.

If Seven say's he's a muslim, it doesn't mean that he is a muslim, unless he satisfies the said criteria. Now i can't see whats inside his mind and heart, so i'd never know if he was really a muslim or if he wasn't. But like i said, its not up to me to verify if he is or if he's not.

I think you're looking too much into it Fred.

If any person says the Shahada, basically what Fred said: to accept that there is one God and that Muhammad was his messenger then you are a Muslim.

 

[Martin]

We cannot verify, and actually its not up to us to verify.

If Seven say's he's a muslim, it doesn't mean that he is a muslim, unless he satisfies the said criteria. Now i can't see whats inside his mind and heart, so i'd never know if he was really a muslim or if he wasn't. But like i said, its not up to me to verify if he is or if he's not.

So what I said, basically you have no objection to it. I said whatever the person says you have to believe cause you have no choice. Who cares if Seven is Muslim or not if we can never establish that. The only thing that is useful to anyone is his statement.