The History Thread (1 Viewer)

[Turk_Bianconero]

Nope, the communists of Greece tried to become leaders there and soviet gorvernment said that they will support them, then Truman learned about it and asked congress to "help" to greece government, so US congress agreed to send $400 million in military and economic aid to support the government of Greece, and after it Greece and Turkey became members of NATO, it was signal from Truman that if communits will try to do revolution there then 3rd world war could begin, but of course nobody wanted it from the both sides of the world, get your facts straight before you talk

Where? In Turkiye, a communist revolution?

 

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[Juventino[RUS]]

Where? In Turkiye, a communist revolution?

yes, right after Greece, communits were minority in Greece back then but with the support from USSR they could easily organize revolution and greece could become another "red" country, after it Turkey could be next, it's obvious, and Truman couldn't allow it, have you ever heard about his doctrine? jeez.....

 

[Raz]

The only thing that Soviet Union has is Kasparov, he's awesome

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

yes, right after Greece one, communits were minority in Greece back then but with the support of USSR they could easily organize revolution and become another "red" country, after it Turkey were next it's obvious, Truman could not allow it

There is bigger chance of Islamic revolution happening in France then a communist revolution in Turkiye. It was not the revolution but the fear of soviet invasion which was at the gate made them join nato. You get your facts straight.

Attempted annulment

After World War II, the Soviet Union attempted to annul the Kars treaty and regain its lost territory. On June 7, 1945, Soviet Foreign Minister Vyacheslav Molotov told the Turkish ambassador in Moscow that the provinces of Kars, Ardahan and Artvin should be returned to the USSR, in the name of both the Georgian and Armenian republics. Turkey found itself in a difficult position: it wanted good relations with the Soviet Union but at the same time they refused to give up the territories. Some British diplomats noted that as early as 1939, Soviet politicians might reopen the question of possibly annulling the Kars treaty. Turkey itself was in no condition to fight a war with the Soviet Union, which had emerged as a superpower after the Second World War. By the autumn of 1945, Soviet troops in the Caucasus were already assembling for a possible invasion of Turkey. Soviet territorial claims to Turkey were supported by all shades of the Armenian diaspora, including the anti-Soviet Armenian Revolutionary Federation.

Soviet claims were put forth by the Armenians to the leaders of the Allies of World War II; however, opposition stemmed from British leader Winston Churchill who objected to these territorial claims as additional areas where the Soviet government could exert its influence while President of the United States Harry S. Truman, felt that the matter should not concern other parties. Ultimately, the USSR gave up its claims against Turkey.

During the crisis, the USSR also asked Turkey for a military base on the Bosphorus. Turkish politicians worked hard, with the help of the British Government, to secure the help of the United States. During this period, the Turkish ambassador to Washington D.C. died and the United States sent his coffin to Istanbul on board the USS Missouri. This was the first large scale American military visit to Turkey and also a symbolic gesture. Only after this event did the USSR back down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Kars#The_agreement

 

[R.A.B.]

The only thing that Soviet Union has is Kasparov, he's awesome

and good linesmans too

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

There is bigger chance of Islamic revolution happening in France then a communist revolution in Turkiye. It was not the revolution but the fear of soviet invasion which was at the gate made them join nato. You get your facts straight.

Attempted annulment

After World War II, the Soviet Union attempted to annul the Kars treaty and regain its lost territory. On June 7, 1945, Soviet Foreign Minister Vyacheslav Molotov told the Turkish ambassador in Moscow that the provinces of Kars, Ardahan and Artvin should be returned to the USSR, in the name of both the Georgian and Armenian republics. Turkey found itself in a difficult position: it wanted good relations with the Soviet Union but at the same time they refused to give up the territories. Some British diplomats noted that as early as 1939, Soviet politicians might reopen the question of possibly annulling the Kars treaty. Turkey itself was in no condition to fight a war with the Soviet Union, which had emerged as a superpower after the Second World War. By the autumn of 1945, Soviet troops in the Caucasus were already assembling for a possible invasion of Turkey. Soviet territorial claims to Turkey were supported by all shades of the Armenian diaspora, including the anti-Soviet Armenian Revolutionary Federation.

Soviet claims were put forth by the Armenians to the leaders of the Allies of World War II; however, opposition stemmed from British leader Winston Churchill who objected to these territorial claims as additional areas where the Soviet government could exert its influence while President of the United States Harry S. Truman, felt that the matter should not concern other parties. Ultimately, the USSR gave up its claims against Turkey.

During the crisis, the USSR also asked Turkey for a military base on the Bosphorus. Turkish politicians worked hard, with the help of the British Government, to secure the help of the United States. During this period, the Turkish ambassador to Washington D.C. died and the United States sent his coffin to Istanbul on board the USS Missouri. This was the first large scale American military visit to Turkey and also a symbolic gesture. Only after this event did the USSR back down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Kars#The_agreement

here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Straits_crisis
"After the Soviet Union defeated Nazi Germany, it returned to the issue in 1945 and 1946. Throughout 1946, American and Turkish diplomats frequently conversed on the issue. The Russians grew angry over Turkey's allowing of non-Black Sea naval vessels to cross the straits during the course of the war and shortly afterwards. The April 6, 1946 visit of the American battleship USS Missouri further angered the Soviets. "

Well done Turkey, well done They wanted USSR to keep silence over it? Son of a bitches
Unfortunately Stalin passed away and new pussy leader of USSR stepped back

"Turkey abandoned its policy of neutrality and accepted USD $100 million in economic and defense aid from the US in 1947 under the Truman Doctrine's plan of ceasing the spread of Soviet influence into Turkey and Greece. The two aforementioned nations joined NATO in 1952."

Truman and his doctrine and it still working

 

[Trequartista]

The issue is that we hardly have any written sources from the second sack of Rome until Charlemagne.

We have quite a few (Gildas, Bede, Isidore of Seville, Gregory of Tours, Paul the Deacon, etc.) but yeah, from about 410 to 800 we have much less written sources than for later periods.

Have you read "Historia Arcana" by Procopius? I had a semester about emperor Justinian and reading this nearly made me piss myself from laughter . Must be the most badass source we have as Historians - Wars which is relatively objective, Buildings of Justinian which was an ordered work from the emperor himself and then Secret History which he wrote for himself, completely taking the piss out of the ruling couple

I have indeed read the Secret History. It is quite funny and it is so different to Procopius' other work. He praised Justinian in the Wars but completely destroys him in the Secret History. I don't know exactly why but there are interesting theories on there explaining such disparity.

The things he says about Theodora are interesting, to say the least.

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Straits_crisis
"After the Soviet Union defeated Nazi Germany, it returned to the issue in 1945 and 1946. Throughout 1946, American and Turkish diplomats frequently conversed on the issue. The Russians grew angry over Turkey's allowing of non-Black Sea naval vessels to cross the straits during the course of the war and shortly afterwards. The April 6, 1946 visit of the American battleship USS Missouri further angered the Soviets. "

Well done Turkey, well done They wanted USSR to keep silence over it? Son of a bitches
Unfortunately Stalin passed away and new pussy leader of USSR stepped back

"Turkey abandoned its policy of neutrality and accepted USD $100 million in economic and defense aid from the US in 1947 under the Truman Doctrine's plan of ceasing the spread of Soviet influence into Turkey and Greece. The two aforementioned nations joined NATO in 1952."

Truman and his doctrine and it still working

Are you purposely ignoring the fact? Threat came first, truman and his doctrine later.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

Are you purposely ignoring the fact? Threat came first, truman and his doctrine later.

threat not from USSR, but from commies inside greece and then turkey

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

threat not from USSR, but from commies inside greece and then turkey

Apparently you're really living in parallel universe. There was no commies in Türkiye.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

Apparently you're really living in parallel universe. There was no commies in Türkiye.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Turkey_(historical)

"The party was founded by Mustafa Suphi in 1920, and was soon to be banned. It worked as a clandestine opposition party throughout the Cold War era, and was persecuted by the various military regimes."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Turkey_(current)
Game. Set. Match.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domino_theory

American morons doing the same even nowadays but they are using "terrorists" instead of communists as the reason

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Turkey_(historical)

"The party was founded by Mustafa Suphi in 1920, and was soon to be banned. It worked as a clandestine opposition party throughout the Cold War era, and was persecuted by the various military regimes."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Turkey_(current)
Game. Set. Match.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domino_theory

American morons doing the same even nowadays

some scary shit there, Turkish communist party are about to make a revolution! Let's join nato

1999 General Election: 37,671 votes (0.12%) as Sosyalist İktidar Partisi
2002 General Election: 50,496 votes (0.19%)
2007 General Election: 80,092 votes (0.22%)
2011 General Election: 64,006 votes (0.15%)

So it was not USSR invasion but fear of non-existant commies in Turkiye made them join nato

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

some scary shit there, Turkish communist party are about to make a revolution! Let's join nato

1999 General Election: 37,671 votes (0.12%) as Sosyalist İktidar Partisi
2002 General Election: 50,496 votes (0.19%)
2007 General Election: 80,092 votes (0.22%)
2011 General Election: 64,006 votes (0.15%)

So it was not USSR invasion but fear of non-existant commies in Turkiye made them join nato

USSR never tried to invade turkey, Stalin was angry that you allowed Nazi and US ships to travel through bosphorus easily, that's why he wanted to take full control under that zone, on the other hand you don't understand that it's not about number of commies in ur country only, if USSR would give weapons to local communits in Greece, then most of them could travel to turkey and alongside with soviets agents they could easily organize revolution in Turkey too, it's simple, revolutions is like flu - it can easily spread

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

USSR never tried to invade turkey, Stalin was angry that you allowed Nazi and US ships to travel through bosphorus easily, that's why he wanted to take full control under that zone, on the other hand you don't understand that it's not about number of commies in ur country only, if USSR would give weapons to local communits in Greece, then most of them could travel to turkey and alongside with soviets agents they could easily organize revolution in Turkey too, it's simple, revolutions is like flu - it can easily spread

That's the point my friend. We didn't want that flu of yours called communism, Muslim people would have died million times instead living under godless communist dictatorship. Nato sucks but you left us no choice, witnessing what happened to Azerbaijan and other Turkic nations there was no option but getting the vaccine despite of side effects.

 

[R.A.B.]

That's the point my friend. We didn't want that flu of yours called communism, Muslim people would have died million times instead living under godless communist dictatorship.

Exactly, and millions in eastern europe died, were sent to the siberia and imprisoned because cancer called "soviets" were spreading communism to the half of europe. From Nazi to Soviets, from one shit to another

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

That's the point my friend. We didn't want that flu of yours called communism, Muslim people would have died million times instead living under godless communist dictatorship. Nato sucks but you left us no choice, witnessing what happened to Azerbaijan and other Turkic nations there was no option but getting the vaccine despite of side effects.

Muslims do live under sharia laws from stone ages, it's 100 time worse than communism, all muslims countries lived good in USSR while now they are poor and dying, except Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan who has oil and gas

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Exactly, and millions in eastern europe died, were sent to the siberia and imprisoned because cancer called "soviets" were spreading communism to the half of europe. From Nazi to Soviets, from one shit to another

flam

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

Muslims do live under sharia laws from stone ages, it's 100 time worse than communism, all muslims countries lived good in USSR while now they are poor and dying, except Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan who has oil and gas

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flam

Instead of trying to export that weird regime of yours, showing respect to values and religion of the people living in the region would have been better for you. Maybe your army would not have been buried in Afganistan as well. You know the Ottomans aka barbarians didn't touch the belief of the people in the lands they conquered so they lived 600 years in three continents.

 

[R.A.B.]

Muslims do live under sharia laws from stone ages, it's 100 time worse than communism, all muslims countries lived good in USSR while now they are poor and dying, except Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan who has oil and gas

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/132202.Man_Is_Wolf_to_Man?from_search=true myth
Yes, everyone lived great under communism, Russia is so great to others, how delusional are you.
Sad russians dont live in great condition , the biggest amount rate in diying because alcohol in eastern europe, really communism were good for you

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

Instead of trying to export that weird regime of yours, showing respect to values and religion of the people living in the region would have been better for you. Maybe your army would not have been buried in Afganistan as well. You know the Ottomans aka barbarians didn't touch the belief of the people in the lands they conquered so they lived 600 years in three continents.

Huge mistake of ussr government, brainless idiots were too stupid to learn from US bad experience in vietnam, we lost our boys for nothing but the fact that NATO aka USA helped to the fucking muslim terrorits....i can't take it, never

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Yes, everyone lived great under communism, Russia is so great to others, how delusional are you.
Sad russians dont live in great condition , the biggest amount rate in diying because alcohol in eastern europe, really communism were good for you

That only confirms the fact that you know nothing about Russia. Where did i said that Russia is so great to others nowadays? we have a trillion of problems, Putin is the first one, then others

 

[Vinny Del Pogba]

Poor American soldiers died for nothing there( still dying in the stupid war "against terrorism" tho) and they struggled badly in Vietnam because m16 has been very poor gun, you really never heard about it? M-16 had a bunch of problems - jamming, overheating and M-16 had poor ability to function under adverse conditions, just imagine platoon of Vietcongs has surrounded you and your god damn gun can't shoot because of water, dust, sand etc.
"We left with 72 men in our platoon and came back with 19, Believe it or not, you know what killed most of us? Our own rifle. Practically every one of our dead was found with his [M16] torn down next to him where he had been trying to fix it.
- Marine Corps Rifleman, Vietnam." (from the wiki on the M16)

So you are taking one anecdote and using that to prove that the war was lost because of the M-16? That's retarded. It really is.

Personally, I think the AK-47 is the superior weapon, but the M-16 is not the reason the US failed to achieve their goals in that war. The basic reason was that the North was able to keep the war lasting long enough to erode American public opinion. The US never lost a major battle in Vietnam. The NVA/VC's 'Tet Offensive, while crippling American moral at home, was a crushing defeat for the communists on every front it was fought, completely wiping out the Viet Cong insurgents. After Tet, the US was mainly facing off against NVA regulars disguised as VC or in full on NVA uniform. If equipment was the major issue in the US war effort then they should have lost more engagements.