The games are afoot: general Euro 2004 discussion thread (9 Viewers)

[Kevin]

++ [ originally posted by River ] ++


Yes he is a good talent. I agree with that.

But what your saying about always crossing to the far post is total crap. There isnt a routine to do every time you go down the wing. It requires thinking on the players part and this is what ronaldo lacks. Does Beckham cross to the far post everytime?

A simple chip on a few occasions would have set up goals. And he hasnt time to look up? Please. Whats he looking at, his feet, wondering when to do another stepover?

blaming the forwards? If there isnt a forward their dont waste posession by kicking the ball to nowhere. Try some of your stupid tricks then and make another oppertunity.

Again im not talking about that match hardly at all. Ive watched most ManU games this season. And although he is skillful im just sick and tired of watching him stepover and try fancy things when they are not needed AT ALL. He once did 2 consecutive stepovers with no players near him. He holds the ball way to long before making up his mind what to do with it and the chance is usually missed.

True he is improving, and its not like i dont rate him or hate him. I think hes a fantastic potential. But he has alot to learn and lacks alot in important areas. And for the money that was paid for him, i expect a player who dosent have to be 'taught' were to cross a ball.

And yeah the fans and other players will love him because he is entertaining to watch. And Man Utd fans are desperate to think they have replaced Beckham. Not by along shot. I dont care what they think, this is what i think and i bet he'll go and have the best tournament and ill look way of the mark. But this season he has annoyed me much.

About the crossing thing: they weren't my words but I agree with the poster. You don't and I'll leave it at that as you seem incredibly wound up and not ready to listen to anything about Ronaldo being decent.

You say you don't hate him but reread your post. Lots of bitterness from that (the usual stepover ramblings from an average ronaldo-hater or abu (Anything But United), bringing up the Beckham replacement thing which they don't think at all - they realize they are different type of players who bring different qualities and look at their age difference ffs Ronaldo is still developing!, etc etc). You're totally tearing him apart by saying he can't cross, can only do stupid stepovers and tricks, and that he needs to be 'taught' where to cross, etc etc, yet you end up saying you think he's a fantastic potential? Was that just a cliche sentence which you didn't mean at all but had to put in your ronaldo slagging post to cover your bitterness towards him? Seriously, re-read it and make up your mind. Fantastic potentials are at least able to show something decent right, not being totally useless with dumb tricks and zero efficiency (even though he made more in 10 minutes today than most of the other players and did 1 assist and 3 dangerous crosses of which one lead to a hurried punch away from the keeper which lead to a scramble that nuno gomez should have scored from).

 

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[Kevin]

Btw are you a Beckham fan? Honest answer pls, might explain certain things...

 

[River]

The 'taught' part was quoting what you were saying explaining how he had been taught how to do that. Is he a robot or something? Any player who has a mind for the game knows not to do something if its pointless.

"you seem incredibly wound up and not ready to listen to anything about Ronaldo being decent."

I didnt say he wasnt decent. I said i think he has alot of potential.

And yes im totally tearing him apart because im telling you what isnt so great about this player. I dont need to tell you what i like about him do i?

And you might aswell dump all the 'they' about Utd fans. Because i am a ManUtd fan and have been all my life. Ive seen him waste too much this season. THATS why im bitter. I can be bitter.

If Juventus payed that much money for a player, who is completely wasteful and is being taught how to play you would be bitter too.

I do like the player, and i more than you hope he comes good. I'll gladly eat my words and United can stop Arsenal next season perhaps

 

[River]

++ [ originally posted by Kevin ] ++
Btw are you a Beckham fan? Honest answer pls, might explain certain things...

of course im a Beckham fan. But dont think im dumb enough to let player preferences skew my ratings of a player. I have no reason to hate him, i dont hate him.

Do you want me to be like every other United fan and gloat how fantastic this player is? I perfer to have my own opinions

 

[Kevin]

++ [ originally posted by River ] ++And you might aswell dump all the 'they' about Utd fans. Because i am a ManUtd fan and have been all my life. Ive seen him waste too much this season. THATS why im bitter. I can be bitter.

uh oh, the Beckham fan question gathers more importance... you DO sound like a frustrated Beckham fan who is angry that he left and that now the United fans are not cheering for Beckham anymore but HIM...

 

[Kevin]

++ [ originally posted by River ] ++


of course im a Beckham fan. But dont think im dumb enough to let player preferences skew my ratings of a player. I have no reason to hate him, i dont hate him.

Do you want me to be like every other United fan and gloat how fantastic this player is? I perfer to have my own opinions

I am an unbiased United fan and I still think he's a great potential. He's not quite as bad as you're saying, he's still naive and can be inconsistent at times with his crossing, but he's started to cut down on the tricks and has done very well for a young lad. The way you bashed him I've never seen any United fan do (not even the most sensible ones who are generally not asskissers and "buy big name players" idiots) apart from 1 oir 2 real real muppets who are bigtime beckham fans... your rants sounded familiar tbh... that's why I guessed ur a beckham fan...

 

[Kevin]

++ [ originally posted by River ] ++
The 'taught' part was quoting what you were saying explaining how he had been taught how to do that. Is he a robot or something? Any player who has a mind for the game knows not to do something if its pointless.

"you seem incredibly wound up and not ready to listen to anything about Ronaldo being decent."

I didnt say he wasnt decent. I said i think he has alot of potential.

And yes im totally tearing him apart because im telling you what isnt so great about this player. I dont need to tell you what i like about him do i?

And you might aswell dump all the 'they' about Utd fans. Because i am a ManUtd fan and have been all my life. Ive seen him waste too much this season. THATS why im bitter. I can be bitter.

If Juventus payed that much money for a player, who is completely wasteful and is being taught how to play you would be bitter too.

I do like the player, and i more than you hope he comes good. I'll gladly eat my words and United can stop Arsenal next season perhaps

Hope he comes good? The lad is still developing ffs, he's had a pretty good season for a 19-year old coming to a foreign league!
And about the robot thing: he expected players at the far post and crossed. It was dumb of him to do it several times though and he's corrected that today. That was his first match away from United and he still had that habit (although he overdid it and that is admittedly not smart) - he's adapted today and did very well. So no he's no robot.

Sorry for the amount of posts, it's late here and I'm kinda reading multiple forums. Only picked out other quotes when I read your posts again more carefully.

 

[River]

If this is the way you want this to go, then yeah suure.

Anyone would be bitter at losing a player of beckhams quality. But dont paint me with that brush please, if you dont have anything to comment on the previous post i made feel free to leave it. No point to get all worked up and resort to something thats wasting my time. Im not here for that, so chill

And to show how im not biast heres what i dont like about beckham:
He was pretty useless his last season with Utd. He cant use his left foot at all and isnt even willing to try even for simple passing. He thinks he is God when it comes to free kicks. HOW MANY did he waste with united? I lost count. Yes hes good but is he so stupid that he cant realise he wont score from 40 yards? He was usually more worried about how he looked, than how he played. The posh and becks thing was really getting on my nerves.

My ratings on Ronaldo has nothing at all to do with David Beckham.

 

[River]

++ [ originally posted by Kevin ] ++


Hope he comes good? The lad is still developing ffs, he's had a pretty good season for a 19-year old coming to a foreign league!
And about the robot thing: he expected players at the far post and crossed. It was dumb of him to do it several times though and he's corrected that today. That was his first match away from United and he still had that habit (although he overdid it and that is admittedly not smart) - he's adapted today and did very well. So no he's no robot.

Yes, i agree. Where did i say he didnt have a good season for a 19 year old? Where did i say he didnt do well. Im only adding some reality to everyones unrealistic views of this player. Dont put words in my mouth that i didnt say.

I didnt say he was a robot. I was merely showing how your comments about him being taught to pass to that post warrent an excuse were rediculous.

 

[Kevin]

++ [ originally posted by River ] ++
If this is the way you want this to go, then yeah suure.

Anyone would be bitter at losing a player of beckhams quality. But dont paint me with that brush please, if you dont have anything to comment on the previous post i made feel free to leave it. No point to get all worked up and resort to something thats wasting my time. Im not here for that, so chill

And to show how im not biast heres what i dont like about beckham:
He was pretty useless his last season with Utd. He cant use his left foot at all and isnt even willing to try even for simple passing. He thinks he is God when it comes to free kicks. HOW MANY did he waste with united? I lost count. Yes hes good but is he so stupid that he cant realise he wont score from 40 yards? He was usually more worried about how he looked, than how he played. The posh and becks thing was really getting on my nerves.

My ratings on Ronaldo has nothing at all to do with David Beckham.

In your other post you made comments about Ronaldo and you asked if I wanted to know what you DID like about him with a confident smiley implying that there are many things you appreciate of little ron. Then pls tell me, as I don't see how you can come up with a decent list of good things to say about him without contradicting that HUGE "crappy things about horrendous ronaldo" list.

 

[River]

I apreciate his skill, speed, set piece ability and shooting/goalscoring ability.

And i completely agree about him improving. But i thought you were one of the people who thought he was a God. So the built up negativity is a response to that

Anyways im not liking where this is going because im arguing with you to show you how i dont hate him. Thats not my job you can think i hate him if you want.

And believe me in calling his name as loud as anyone, but its usually been shouting at him to pass the dam ball already

The beckham points you are making arent important to this. Ive told you to me it has nothing to do with beckham, believe or dont your choice. And i can tell you alot of fans agree with what im saying. Go to Old Trafford and when Ronaldo is doing his tricks you will hear alot of people shouting PASS

Anyways im glad you agree with some of the points ive made and good discussion

 

[Kevin]

++ [ originally posted by River ] ++
I apreciate his skill, speed, set piece ability and shooting/goalscoring ability.

And i completely agree about him improving. But i thought you were one of the people who thought he was a God. So the built up negativity is a response to that

Anyways im not liking where this is going because im arguing with you to show you how i dont hate him. Thats not my job you can think i hate him if you want.

And believe me in calling his name as loud as anyone, but its usually been shouting at him to pass the dam ball already

The beckham points you are making arent important to this. Ive told you to me it has nothing to do with beckham, believe or dont your choice. And i can tell you alot of fans agree with what im saying. Go to Old Trafford and when Ronaldo is doing his tricks you will hear alot of people shouting PASS

Anyways im glad you agree with some of the points ive made and good discussion

He's not very good at shooting, and set piece ability? Have you seen his corners? these are one of the points where even the 'he's god' type of United fans seem to agree on - he needs to work on that. He's scored two decent goals against tottenham and aston villa with good shots but generally they are going wayward bigtime...
I don't think he's god, I think he's very good and a fantastic prospect but he's still inconsistent and will remain so during his developing stages which he's going through atm (deja vu? yes you said something similar before and I agreed with you as my view is exactly the same, but you were confusing me with the beckham shit and the long rants about how crappy he is. Now that you explained that you thought I was a "even his farts smell great" type of Ronaldo fan and thus you were extra harsh and negative in your words, it clears it up a bit I guess. Because it's funny how I thought you were a Beckham fanatic and lashed out in the a similar way). I have no doubt however that he'll become a top class player.

And are you sure the pass the ball shouts weren't from his first half season? redissue is full of matchgoers and they're all poetic about him and the runs he makes and the tricks he does is exactly why they love him and they'd not want him to change that... and anyway he's really started to cut down on holding the ball too long, he's mixing it up nicely. Even Ferguson said that you can't hold down these players and make them robots, you must let them express themselves artistically. That's what he did with Cantona and that's what he's doing with Ronnie... so... I'm not so sure about the pass the ball shouting... they love him to bits...

 

[River]

Set pieces i meant his freekicks mostly crossing. Corners i dont know why he takes them at all. And i think his shooting is good minus the ultra long range impossible shots he likes to try.

I was extra harsh and negative mostly because of your thats what hes been taught excuse. That was silly. but yeah also because of what you mentioned.

And while i have my doubts, i remain hopeful

 

[Kevin]

++ [ originally posted by River ] ++
Set pieces i meant his freekicks mostly crossing. Corners i dont know why he takes them at all. And i think his shooting is good minus the ultra long range impossible shots he likes to try.

I was extra harsh and negative mostly because of your thats what hes been taught excuse. That was silly. but yeah also because of what you mentioned.

And while i have my doubts, i remain hopeful

I don't think that was a poor excuse, it was brought up by several ppl. It doesn't excuse him for being dumb for doing it several times, but it is a habit you can build and to be honest, he probably DID expect players at the second post at some point because, as many portuguese posters and every football fan knows, usually there SHOULD BE players there. Pauletta wasn't happy about it at all.

Hate to go on about this, but you have your doubts that he'll succeed yet you think he has fantastic potential? Sure, potential doesn't mean the player will necessarily fulfil it, but what's so doubtful when you agreed with me that he's so far had a very good season for a 19-year old adapting to a new league? Maybe it's late and I might be affected, but you seem to contradict yourself sometimes...

 

[River]

No i have my doubts. Like you dont have any doubts. Whats the difference?

Im sure he'll become a good and useful player but i wont throw out top class tags that easily

 

[Kevin]

Well anyway, we'll see. I'm still not sure about you not being slightly bitter about the Beckham thing (and you might still not be convinced I'm not a ronaldo is god type of fan) from what I'm picking up from your posts (contradicting hints and a bit 'acted "ronaldo is a fantastic prospect" attitude' IMO...), but I'm not interested in bashing or muppet branding type of discussions so I guess we'll leave it at this and let time tell. Ronaldo did very well today however

 

[River]

I am bitter about Beckham. But im bitter with Ferguson about that, not Ronaldo. That would be narrowminded

 

[Kevin]

Narrowminded? YOU? Never

 

[River]

Exactly.

And if im sure a Beckham fan why would i be ripping him off in my signature?

 

[Kevin]

++ [ originally posted by River ] ++
Exactly.

And if im sure a Beckham fan why would i be ripping him off in my signature?

Well you've just said u're still bitter about him with Fergie, meaning you do miss him... love can be strange you know, especially when snubbed