The Financial Situation (44 Viewers)

[Knowah]

It’s stunning how much Covid has affected the club.

It truly is a testament to the knife's edge financial balance the club has been run on for the last 4-5 years. A complete gamble at great risk to the club by Agnelli. Really, the club should've never gone that route. We could point back to Higuain (yes, he contributed a lot of great goals for us but at what cost) and Ronaldo (see Higuain) and say the dreaded WHAT IF in regards to other younger, cheaper options that were 17-18 and we were showing interest (Haaland).

We should've taken the safe route, been willing to NOT win the scudetto and instead focus on using the last 6-8 years of success to build a solid foundation for the club to flourish for the next two decades. Instead Agnelli took the very risky route and instead wiped out most of our gains in less than five years.

 

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[IlCapitano]

It truly is a testament to the knife's edge financial balance the club has been run on for the last 4-5 years. A complete gamble at great risk to the club by Agnelli. Really, the club should've never gone that route. We could point back to Higuain (yes, he contributed a lot of great goals for us but at what cost) and Ronaldo (see Higuain) and say the dreaded WHAT IF in regards to other younger, cheaper options that were 17-18 and we were showing interest (Haaland).

We should've taken the safe route, been willing to NOT win the scudetto and instead focus on using the last 6-8 years of success to build a solid foundation for the club to flourish for the next two decades. Instead Agnelli took the very risky route and instead wiped out most of our gains in less than five years.

That's very easy to say now, but everyone mostly agreed with the moves back then. Nobody was saying back then 'oh yeah I'm fine losing trophies for the next few years, let's sign some teenagers'. Everyone was obsessed with winning, reaching 10 in a row, winning the CL etc.

Another important thing is unless we have 90% Italian core we will never have to rebuild every few years. We could've had the foresight to sign Haaland and Bellingham and Kvara etc etc, but in a few years they would all leave and back then there weren't this many promising young Italians.

 

[Knowah]

That's very easy to say now, but everyone mostly agreed with the moves back then. Nobody was saying back then 'oh yeah I'm fine losing trophies for the next few years, let's sign some teenagers'. Everyone was obsessed with winning, reaching 10 in a row, winning the CL etc.

Another important thing is unless we have 90% Italian core we will never have to rebuild every few years. We could've had the foresight to sign Haaland and Bellingham and Kvara etc etc, but in a few years they would all leave and back then there weren't this many promising young Italians.

First point, I kind of agree but believe some of that was because we the fans didn't know the financial predicament the club was truly in. And I was mostly against the Higuain deal from the beginning because it was so expensive. Yeah, it was exciting and nice to take him from Napoli but it was us flexing a financial muscle we probably shouldn't have and that much was obvious even at the time. Same goes for Ronaldo. It was exciting, he's Ronaldo, I reveled in it too. But even then knowing his wages and transfer fee there was still the talk in the air of "maybe this is too expensive though its cool to see us be so aggressive and get a bonafide superstar."

As far as the second point, I agree and disagree. There's no shame in non-italians walking away after 4-5 years with the clubs and us collecting a good transfer fee. This obsession with players being here forever or not wanting to leave is so odd. As long as we're making a profit and they were here for 3-4 years, I'm fine with it. The old days are gone. And even the old days, players weren't here forever. Zidane was here for 5 years. Baggio was here for 5. Vialli was here for 4. Davids was here for 6. Thuram was here for 5. Cannavaro was here for two stints that equal 3 total years. And they can still be clubs legends. I don't need my players to be here for more than 4-5 years if we're making sound financial decisions.

Baggio was here from 23-28. Was he a mercenary? I wouldn't say so. And he's Italian. So why would I expect or WANT more from a non-Italian especially in this era of football and free agency? Davids, 25-31. And that's okay. He wasn't a mercenary because he left still in his prime.

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Of course, I want my club to have players here a long time but the nature of the sport means some players will be like Del Piero or Nedved (8 years) but most won't and that's still okay. We still think of them fondly.

 

[IlCapitano]

First point, I kind of agree but believe some of that was because we the fans didn't know the financial predicament the club was truly in. And I was mostly against the Higuain deal from the beginning because it was so expensive. Yeah, it was exciting and nice to take him from Napoli but it was us flexing a financial muscle we probably shouldn't have and that much was obvious even at the time. Same goes for Ronaldo. It was exciting, he's Ronaldo, I reveled in it too. But even then knowing his wages and transfer fee there was still the talk in the air of "maybe this is too expensive though its cool to see us be so aggressive and get a bonafide superstar."

As far as the second point, I agree and disagree. There's no shame in non-italians walking away after 4-5 years with the clubs and us collecting a good transfer fee. This obsession with players being here forever or not wanting to leave is so odd. As long as we're making a profit and they were here for 3-4 years, I'm fine with it. The old days are gone. And even the old days, players weren't here forever. Zidane was here for 5 years. Baggio was here for 5. Vialli was here for 4. Davids was here for 6. Thuram was here for 5. Cannavaro was here for two stints that equal 3 total years. And they can still be clubs legends. I don't need my players to be here for more than 4-5 years if we're making sound financial decisions.

Baggio was here from 23-28. Was he a mercenary? I wouldn't say so. And he's Italian. So why would I expect or WANT more from a non-Italian especially in this era of football and free agency? Davids, 25-31. And that's okay. He wasn't a mercenary because he left still in his prime.

- - - Updated - - -

Of course, I want my club to have players here a long time but the nature of the sport means some players will be like Del Piero or Nedved (8 years) but most won't and that's still okay. We still think of them fondly.

No I'm not saying I want them to stay here forever, I'm saying you will be in constant flux of rebuilding if you rely on them. You can't sign them as backups or rotation players, they want to play all the time to develop, that's why they choose Dortmund and similar clubs. But if you sell off veterans to play them regular minutes then by the time they develop enough to win with them as main guys you have to sell them and start over again with other youngsters. And we don't have the prestige of RM to sign a bunch of them and have them accept they're backing up older guys for years until they develop.

I think the only way to do that, to build a young team for now and the future is to do it with Italian players. They're the only ones who will stay long enough to develop until they're ready to win and be fine in a rotation for a few years until they develop.

 

[Knowah]

No I'm not saying I want them to stay here forever, I'm saying you will be in constant flux of rebuilding if you rely on them. You can't sign them as backups or rotation players, they want to play all the time to develop, that's why they choose Dortmund and similar clubs. But if you sell off veterans to play them regular minutes then by the time they develop enough to win with them as main guys you have to sell them and start over again with other youngsters. And we don't have the prestige of RM to sign a bunch of them and have them accept they're backing up older guys for years until they develop.

I think the only way to do that, to build a young team for now and the future is to do it with Italian players. They're the only ones who will stay long enough to develop until they're ready to win and be fine in a rotation for a few years until they develop.

I don't think there's a problem with young stars ascending here and then leaving. You make that part of the plan. I think 3-4 positions on the starting 11 and 4-5 positions on the bench should be young stars about to ascend or with the potential to ascend. Some will leave when they ascend, most will leave to be honest. But that's okay. It's the way the world is now. Expecting to build a powerhouse club and then keep people with all the money and prestige in the EPL and at clubs with money like PSG is unrealistic. Even for Italian players.

Look at Veratti. That was OUR fault. We let him slip because we suddenly got stingey with money. He was Serie A and Juventus ready and we just waited too long.

I look at it this way. Building for the future with young players IS them leaving for greener pastures or the EPL or PSG or Bayern after 4-5 years here and developing into stars. How? Because of the transfer return you get is part of the plan. You hope they stay but you plan for them to leave and collecting a big transfer fee. I don't agree that it would take 2-3 years to win with a squad of 2-3 regular starters being 19-20 up-and-coming stars and half the bench being the same. I completely disagree. I think you don't win 10 scudettos in a row. But you win 5-6/10 and are much better of as a club for it imo. Maybe I'm crazy. My wife does say I'm crazy sometimes.

 

[MrMonkey]

Not resigning ADM, Sandro, Rabiot, or accepting Paredes deal as permanent along finding ways to get rid of Bonucci. Rugani too but after last game might have to play him. more to see if he's worth keeping. Cuads too wish he was 3-4 years younger. He's one player that I think would accept a wage cut as a quality sub/semi-starter and still give GRINTA 100% all the time. let's not forget Ramsey's salary.

So that adds up to estimated 44M net off the books. If Rugs stays figure . goes down 3.5M and of course Juve would have to pay % of Bonucci's 6.5M. Add in McKennie's 2.5M maybe offset portion of Bono's money.

So I could go with midfield of Loca, Kostic, Miretti, Fagioli, Rovella and of course PP along with couple cheap add ons.. Good probability Loca would resign for close to same amount. That's 6 guys that can be had for around 18M and and signed through 2026 at average age of 25.

Forwards if Dusan comes back paired with Chiesa costs 12M. Haven't seen those two paired together yet. Can't wait and resign Milik for sure and maybe Kean? if both say 7M net. Count on two of Soule, Junior, Jorge, Aka to progress and probably around 21M net on forwards. For argument sake counting 6 players that average just under 25 of age.

Backline Bremer, Danilo, Gatti. hopefully good Rugani and for 1.5M saying MDS will produce as backup/limited starter. Counting say 3.5M to get rid of Bono and couple additions to 5 players staying estimated to be 22M net. Of course Tek, Perin and whoever will cost around 9M.

Just playing fantasy Juve management here but above could be had for roughly 70M total net. Younger team also that for paying a manager 9M I would expect someone who could grow young talent into a successful team. Not constant stopgaps each year that too many new key additions are required.

 

[Siamak]

 

[Niku]

More empty seats?
We got this.

 

[.zero]

 

[Cerval]

They will put a #liveahead sticker on the top corner of each seat

 

[U Picciriddu]

 

[Siamak]

During this season, #Juventus earned close to €52.9M from its path in the #ChampionsLeague

In #EuropaLeague they received €0.5m for the qualification to the playoffs and €1.2m for reaching the round of 16. Qualifying to the quarter final could provide an additional €1.8m

[Calcio e Finanza via Luca Fioretti]

 

[The Quazis]

How did Roma get into so much debt?

 

[AOD4]

I believe its because the current owners took over the previous debt from previous owners.

 

[s4tch]

1st half year losses are down to 30m from over 80m during last year. i bet a few serie a clubs with much smaller wage bills will report higher losses

 

[U Picciriddu]

Too lazy to do the maths but with a good run in CL and a sell we would be in black numbers right?

The stadium has been half empty on many occasions aswel. Compare our wage list to a few years ago and it should be a lot lower than that peak we had during Sarri’s season, I think that we are at a normal level now. Still improvement to be made of course

 

[s4tch]

...The stadium has been half empty on many occasions aswel...

atalanta (3-3) had the lowest home attendance with 33.5k as season tickets count even if the holders won't show up

attendance is the least of our problems. shitty crowd though...

also the break even point is usually set at cl quarterfinals, and we're still off that mark

 

[Scottish]

Too lazy to do the maths but with a good run in CL and a sell we would be in black numbers right?

The stadium has been half empty on many occasions aswel. Compare our wage list to a few years ago and it should be a lot lower than that peak we had during Sarri’s season, I think that we are at a normal level now. Still improvement to be made of course

We're gonna win the EL this season, we'll be good financially

 

[Boksic]

Total salaries of our players net and gross. You can see the benefits of signing players from abroad. Sums up the past few seasons that some of our worst performing players are the most expensive.

The sooner we can get Bonucci, Alex Sandro and Szczesny off the books the better. Crazy decision to bring back Bonucci on higher wages than his first spell, crazy decision to renew Alex Sandro if at the same wage and even crazier to renew Tek all those years ago for absolutely no reason.

PLAYER NET GROSS
Pogba 8 10.48
Paredes 7 9.17
Rabiot. 7 9.17
Vlahovic 7 12.95
Bonucci 6.5 12.03
Szczesny 6.5 12.03
Alex Sandro 6 11.10
DiMaria 6 7.86
Bremer 5. 9.25
Chiesa 5 9.25
Cuadrado 5 9.25
Danilo 4 5.24
Milik 3.5 6.48
Rugani 3.5 6.48
Locatelli 3 5.55
kean 2.5 3.28
Kostic 2.5 3.28
McKennie 2.5 3.28
DeSciglio 1.5. 2.78
Perin 1.5 2.78
Kaio Jorge*1.2 1.57
Fagioli 1 1.85
Gatti 1 1.85
Miretti 0.3 0.56
Pinsoglio 0.3 0.56
TOTAL 97.3. 158.08

*source from VS

 

[vodka]

Sandro costs more than twice than Danilo lmao