The Financial Situation (27 Viewers)

[Hydde]

yep and this a part of business, i work in mitsubishi corp u cant imaging how much $#@! we do to keep a relationship alive with a customer not with a club

I understand that, but you do it when the customer is so important that you can maybe lose a lot of money.
I work in a marketing agency and one of the clients is so important that no matter what they ask, the dudes here need to run amok to please them. But thats understandable because the paychecks they give to this company practically keeps it afloat.

But,I dont see Juve bending over to the point of buying their rejects and risking our sporting plans just to keep Udinese happy. We do not depend on them. of course a healthy relationship is good... but to buy losers just to keep them happy? dont think so.

 

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[only-juve]

Paying 15-20 mil for average players to keep Udinese happy !!

What kind of logic is that ?

Been working as a broker for 10 years now and never seen that logic in the real world. You pay for what your getting that's why I personally see many of Marotta (and Secco before him) had many unreasonable deals atleast from my prospective.

 

[juventino320]

I understand that, but you do it when the customer is so important that you can maybe lose a lot of money.
I work in a marketing agency and one of the clients is so important that no matter what they ask, the dudes here need to run amok to please them. But thats understandable because the paychecks they give to this company practically keeps it afloat.

But,I dont see Juve bending over to the point of buying their rejects and risking our sporting plans just to keep Udinese happy. We do not depend on them. of course a healthy relationship is good... but to buy losers just to keep them happy? dont think so.

we are talking just in theory, but +-25% from any deal is always ok to be given if the second party is active in the market and give something back, like we have the first option to buy a player from udinese and we cant deny that udinese is the best team in seria a right now can find young talents every 1-2 years the bring a product.

am just saying this kind of things happens some time, yet i dont roll out that this is not the case and marotta doing a crapy deals

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Paying 15-20 mil for average players to keep Udinese happy !!

What kind of logic is that ?

Been working as a broker for 10 years now and never seen that logic in the real world. You pay for what your getting that's why I personally see many of Marotta (and Secco before him) had many unreasonable deals atleast from my prospective.

maybe u didnt see it but that dont mean it not exist, am doing this kind of jobs every month in order to keep things running between us and that will guarantee that he will always come back to me and give me more orders, discounts, gifts, parties, dinners even sometime we do extra work not in our scoop of work for free.

 

[italiacalcio10]

Yeah, you don't overpay to keep relationships afloat. That isn't how business works. It mostly comes down to the pitfall from which many managers of top teams tend to suffer. They overpay for mid-table players who are very good players on their teams, but ultimately aren't suitable for that same role with a world class team. Sometimes you get lucky, but most of the time, if you're going to be successful the player needs to be exceptional on that mid-table team.

Examples of these 'good' mid-table players
-Maurizio Isla
-Alessandro Matri
-Scott Sinclair
-Gareth Barry
-Giampaolo Pazzini
-Gabriel Paletta


Examples of Exceptional:
-Alexis Sanchez
-Stevan Jovetic
-Edinson Cavani
-Griezmann
-


Unfortunately, we're more likely to pay 20 million for one of these 'good' players than to pay 40 million for an exceptional one. Local teams also tend to charge a premium since its to a competitor.
Taking the risk that a good player in a provincial starting XI will translate into a good starting XI for a UCL caliber team is inherently risky IMO.

 

[Bjerknes]

i cant deny that marotta doing some crapy deals, but some deals must be made with some clubs to keep the relation alive,such as udinese we are some time helping them financially by buying some of there player ( i guess ).

Funny thing is, you may be right. Either that or something else is going on behind the scenes for Seccorotta to continue to shop in Udine. Some of these players aren't even that good.

Paying 15-20 mil for average players to keep Udinese happy !!

What kind of logic is that ?

Been working as a broker for 10 years now and never seen that logic in the real world. You pay for what your getting that's why I personally see many of Marotta (and Secco before him) had many unreasonable deals atleast from my prospective.

That's because you live in the real world, you aren't playing Hedge Fund Manager 2014 and brokering fake trades.

 

[italiacalcio10]

To further show that Roma financially aren't even in our stratosphere from a financial health standpoint (contrary to the article written), Roma just sold 100 million euro worth of stock. Juventus are self sustaining right now, Roma burn cash like they're living in hyperinflationary Germany in the 1920s. With wages that are 77% of revenues, Roma isn't more profitable. The difference is the owners have been willing to raise equity very consistently. Roma will improve and I like the owner, but to claim that "their expenses are lower" isn't correct. On a going forward basis, their margins are much worse.

Champions League will obviously help, but it is fairly obvious through the club's transfer dealings that their wages will increase materially in the upcoming year.

 

[Vlad]

I think it is time for us to raise equity. After this year and probable loss of approx 20M we might need to change the strategy and use financing by equity instead of debt, and the latter is likely to reach 230-240m. Enormous disproportion between the two atm isn't healthy. Something to consider imho. Juventus as well is burning cash. Last year our increase of debt was mostly due to 43m investments on the market and considering the aggressiveness of the industry it is unlikely that we will halt our investments in the forthcoming period.

It is definitely a good thing that Roma's owners have been heavily investing in the previous years and seems they intend to continue further. It's nice incentive for us, if we don't want to fall behind at one point.

 

[PedroFlu]

So we came to the conclusion that cash flow this 2014-15 season considering only transfer fees is of + 7M. We didn't actually spend a penny this mercato, we got 7M profit (so far), considering only the money flow this year, without thinking about the commitments the club made.

Now let's think about the impact our 2 last mercatos + this one will have on our next 2 mercatos, in the years of 2015 and 2016.

2015 Mercato Projection

Signing fees already commited to pay in 2015: roughly 38M

From 2014 signings: 23.25M

- Berardi co-own 5M (1st of 3 - reportedly we already agreed to buy him for 15M next season)
- Morata 6.6M (2nd of 3 installments)
- Pereyra 1.5M 4.8 (1st of 3 installments)
- Marrone 1.5M (2nd of 3 installments)
- Isla 2.3M (last of 2 installments)
- Pasquato 0.75M (last of 2 installments)
- Sturaro 1.8M (2nd of 3 installments)
- Sorensen 0.75M (2nd of 3 installments)
- Evra 0.75M (last of 2 installments)
- Romulo 2.3M (1st of 3 installments - considering the fee will be of 7M to be payed in 3x)

From 2013 signings: 14.4M

- Ogbonna - 4.3M (last of 3 installments)
- Asamoah 2nd half co-own - 3M (last of 3 installments).
- Tevez - 5M (last of 3 inst).
- Zaza co-own 1.2M (last of 3 inst)
- Berardi co-own - 0.9M (4th of 5 inst)

From 2012-13 signings: 0. Most signings from 2012 were finished paying this season, 2014, when the 3rd installment was paid.


Money to be received from player sales in 2015: 14.9M

- Giaccherini - 2.5M (last of 3 installments) - from 2013
- Matri - 2.75M (3rd of 4). - from 2013
- Zaza 2.5M (2nd of 3) - from 2014
- Peluso 1.6M (2nd of 3) - from 2014
- Quagliarella 1.2M (2nd of 3) - from 2014
- Isla 4M (last of 2 - my assumption) - from 2014


Cash flow in 2015 mercato: 38M - 14.9M = around 23M. In other words, next mercato we'll start already with -23M in cash flow transfers.


In a quick account, Cash flow in 2016 mercato : 20.5M - 8.5M = 12M. We will start 2016 with -12M in cash flow transfers, without considering signings to be made in 2015 and 2016.

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Now we need a comparison. This year, cash flow is + 7M regarding transfer fees.

Before 2014, we already entered the year with a projected - 12,2M (considering commitments to pay and sell) commited from 2012; and 6,85M from 2013 (and also around -4M from Matri's deal from 2011)

The total amount is of around (-)23M.

So we entered 2014 with a deficit of 23M in terms of cash flow from past seasons deals.

The deals made in 2014 generated a positive of around 7M in cash flow.

In 2013: we had -26M to pay from 2011 signings; -9M to pay from 2012 signings (considering money commited to spend and receive) = -35M.

Cash flow in 2013, from 2013 transfers only: -5,4M.


Conclusion:
- The effects of almost every sign we make are extended to 2 more years besides the year of the signing - almost all our transfers are spred in 3 years;
- The reason why we look more into Italy is probably because of more favourable payment conditions - and for this advantage, Marotta overpays for the players a little bit;
- We almost never spend more than 5/6M for a player in a year in transfer installments;

- in 2013, we entered the season with -35M to be paid that year from previous years transfers (mainly 2011 and 2012);
- in 2013, cash flow from transactions only from that year was of -5,4M, considering signings and sales;

- in 2014, we entered the season with -23M to be paid this year, from previous years (2012 and 2013);
- in 2014, cash flow from transactions only from this year is of +7M, considering signings and sales;

- in 2015, we will enter the season with -23M again to be paid in 2015. Also, we have to consider that only from 2014, we have already commited to enter 2016 season with -12M.

At the same time, our overall debt is quickly rasing in the past 2 or 3 years.

Although our revenues should increase around 30M next year from new sponsorships, ADIDAS and TV rights, things definitely don't look very promising.

Unless we raise equity or get another loan from Exxor (which is unlikely due to our already too high debt levels), we all can stop dreaming about signing big name players, or even highly rated youngsters for the next years.

IF things follow this pattern and nothing new happens, like raising the equity, this is will be our kind of mercato for quite a while.

 

[mondo1]

I thought next summer is the summer where we spend big on quality

 

[Red]

What has to be remembered in all these calculations is that it is pretty unlikely Juve won't have sold at least one of Pogba and Vidal for a lot of money within the next couple of years.

 

[italiacalcio10]

I think it is time for us to raise equity. After this year and probable loss of approx 20M we might need to change the strategy and use financing by equity instead of debt, and the latter is likely to reach 230-240m. Enormous disproportion between the two atm isn't healthy. Something to consider imho. Juventus as well is burning cash. Last year our increase of debt was mostly due to 43m investments on the market and considering the aggressiveness of the industry it is unlikely that we will halt our investments in the forthcoming period.

It is definitely a good thing that Roma's owners have been heavily investing in the previous years and seems they intend to continue further. It's nice incentive for us, if we don't want to fall behind at one point.

I don't know who would participate in a secondary offering from Juve though, it's guaranteed capital depreciation in the long run. Heck, I'd short football clubs, they're inherently crappy businesses with irrational competition.

Then again Roma got it done - however Roma has more growth prospects than Juve since its a smaller club.

 

[PedroFlu]

What has to be remembered in all these calculations is that it is pretty unlikely Juve won't have sold at least one of Pogba and Vidal for a lot of money within the next couple of years.

Yep... the only way I see Juve succeeding in increasing the transfer budget (equity raise or loans apart) is selling one of them for 60M and buying 3 20M young talented players who will be sold by 50M in the near future and so on. Pretty hard task.

Most realistic case is we'll keep getting a 20M and a 15M guy per season from Serie A, extending the payment and getting as many installments as possible.

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I don't know who would participate in a secondary offering from Juve though, it's guaranteed capital depreciation in the long run. Heck, I'd short football clubs, they're inherently crappy businesses with irrational competition.

Then again Roma got it done - however Roma has more growth prospects than Juve since its a smaller club.

Very good post, I agree

 

[Bianconero81]

This is fucking depressing.

 

[ZoSo]

if we lose some revenue somewhere we will be really fucked in a year or two, hopefully it won't happen.

 

[only-juve]

if we lose some revenue somewhere we will be really $#@!ed in a year or two, hopefully it won't happen.

Champions league ?

Worst time to gamble on Alegri, if we fail to qualify to next season CL, we're officially screwed

 

[ZoSo]

yeah something like that definitely, certainly if we failed to qualify for CL

 

[Elvin]

So are we gonna get the third sponsor on our shirts?

 

[italiacalcio10]

So are we gonna get the third sponsor on our shirts?

We should sell tattoo space on the arms of the players.

Bonucci

....Because he ****ts the bed often while playing.

 

[Mister]

Juventus and Fiat renew its sponsorship till 2020/2021: 17 million per year (current 13) .

 

[LiquidPLP]

Juventus and Fiat renew its sponsorship till 2020/2021: 17 million per year (current 13) .

Poor tbh.