And another thing: I am sick and tired of muslims who can't debate about the influence of Islam in a normal manner. FFS, stop considering it a personal attack.
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- Thread starter Gill_juve
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I wasnt blaming anyone, I was just telling bes not to believe the media on how they portray islam, if hes really interested in knowing what Islam is theres no better source than the Quran.
As for my comments on Arabic culture.. how do I put this.. okay, first of all, I am not for the "modern" or "liberal" Islam. I hope you understand what Im trying to say. To me Islam is Islam and there are no two ways nor twists about it, there's the Quran and Sunnah, and thats that.
Okay, now that Ive made it clear.. And really I mean no disrespect when I say what Im about to say. There are certain things about the Arabs - and not just arabs it happens everywhere - India etc and even in my own country Malaysia - where we mix our own culture and associate it under Islam when it is unrelated to Islam's teachings. So Im just saying that people should really find out what Islam really is and think twice before believing whatever they read. For example, take Iraqis - it is in their very culture and core and it's them - that they're very.. passionate and hence sometimes irrational in their behaviour, and they get violent. It's a generalization but it's true. So when they get violent and burn flags and stuff and that makes front page news, people might think it's what Islam is and that Islam is violent and full of fanatics, whereas the general consensus in Islam, that type of reaction is wrong. But people won't know that because truth is that that IS how we are generally portrayed nowadays, so Im merely appealing to anyone who's interested to find out what Islam really is for themselves first, then evaluate.
As for my comments on Arabic culture.. how do I put this.. okay, first of all, I am not for the "modern" or "liberal" Islam. I hope you understand what Im trying to say. To me Islam is Islam and there are no two ways nor twists about it, there's the Quran and Sunnah, and thats that.
Okay, now that Ive made it clear.. And really I mean no disrespect when I say what Im about to say. There are certain things about the Arabs - and not just arabs it happens everywhere - India etc and even in my own country Malaysia - where we mix our own culture and associate it under Islam when it is unrelated to Islam's teachings. So Im just saying that people should really find out what Islam really is and think twice before believing whatever they read. For example, take Iraqis - it is in their very culture and core and it's them - that they're very.. passionate and hence sometimes irrational in their behaviour, and they get violent. It's a generalization but it's true. So when they get violent and burn flags and stuff and that makes front page news, people might think it's what Islam is and that Islam is violent and full of fanatics, whereas the general consensus in Islam, that type of reaction is wrong. But people won't know that because truth is that that IS how we are generally portrayed nowadays, so Im merely appealing to anyone who's interested to find out what Islam really is for themselves first, then evaluate.
i think the problem is, is that the extremist in all religions all oversahdow the good honest people. where i live there are plenty of dickhead muslims, sikhs, hindu's etc. but that doesnt stop me from liking all muslims. theres plenty of nice people who follow their religion in the correct way, and a lot of people dont see that. but it is true, most muslims do take it to heart when something is said about their religion.
btw, I'll have to agree with andy, it's greed that drives us. No religion taught us to bomb anything, people are just using it as an excuse to do whatever it is they do. If it's not religion it's something else. The muslims are popular terrorists now, back then it was the Russians, maybe next it'll be the Chinese who knows, but this will never end. Yes religion created the crusades, but that's one of many wars that are also influenced by other factors and excuses
But those aren't excuses are they? Those are the actual reasons. Religion never was a reason, it was always an excuse. I have no problem with reasonable wars. That, you see, I can disagree with.
And another thing, there are plenty religions that do condone violence. Let's just take a look at judaism, shall we? Sure, there's a commandment that says thou shalt not kill. Good enough? I don' think so. Because on the other hand we have this tale about how God kills every first born Egyptian. Now don't tell me it's a long way to go from there, to justifying a Holy War.
And another thing, there are plenty religions that do condone violence. Let's just take a look at judaism, shall we? Sure, there's a commandment that says thou shalt not kill. Good enough? I don' think so. Because on the other hand we have this tale about how God kills every first born Egyptian. Now don't tell me it's a long way to go from there, to justifying a Holy War.
They'll happily fight for their country, or for their ethnic group, or against the evil imperialist forces occupying their country (even if it's actually some group who have a genuine claim to that particular patch of ground) or something.
Folks, the next person to use the word "retard" gets IP banned from this website. Cut out the personal attacks now.
Folks, the next person to use the word "retard" gets IP banned from this website. Cut out the personal attacks now.
Exactly, but those are reasons. Fighting against an imperialist force or fighting to be independent is a reason. Fighting for your religion is never the true reason. Bin Laden gives shit about the Islam.
Also, mikhail, I consider suicide bombers retards. Whatever cause they might have. If you consider that a personal attack towards sallyinzaghi, who I do not think of as a suicide bomber, you can ban me all you want.
Also, mikhail, I consider suicide bombers retards. Whatever cause they might have. If you consider that a personal attack towards sallyinzaghi, who I do not think of as a suicide bomber, you can ban me all you want.
I dont know much bout Judaism simply because you cant find any here, but from my friends who are Hindus, Buddhists, Christians and Sikhs, none ever condoned violence and when asked said their religion doesnt either.
well you are right, but its just my opinion that banning institutionalized religion wont make much of a difference - the actual reasons will always be there, whether it is veiled by an excuse or not is a different matter, but people will continue killing each other at the same rate, with or without religion.
btw, regarding the tale - what tale is that ? is that the one where the pharaoh kills every newborn boy because it is prophecied that one man will thwart him (and that was moses) ? AFAIK, judaism or israel was born only AFTER moses brought his people out of egypt, so if that's true techncally it cant be judaism that taught the pharaoh to kill the newborns in egypt
anyone can clear this up ? or did i get the wrong story?
well you are right, but its just my opinion that banning institutionalized religion wont make much of a difference - the actual reasons will always be there, whether it is veiled by an excuse or not is a different matter, but people will continue killing each other at the same rate, with or without religion.
btw, regarding the tale - what tale is that ? is that the one where the pharaoh kills every newborn boy because it is prophecied that one man will thwart him (and that was moses) ? AFAIK, judaism or israel was born only AFTER moses brought his people out of egypt, so if that's true techncally it cant be judaism that taught the pharaoh to kill the newborns in egypt
anyone can clear this up ? or did i get the wrong story?
Look, if you look at the 10 commandments neither christianity nor judaism condone violence. But that's just bull, isn't it? You can't go ahead and kill thousands of Egyptians, only to conclude afterwards that killing people isn't right. And then we're not even talking about all the other violence in the Bible. God, especially in the First ... (what is it again in English?), is one brutal guy. Judaism and Christianity really do condone violence in many ways.
Israel was born after yes, so what? It was born because he followed the true God wasn't it? And the true God just happened to kill Egyptians. After which he, by the way, let the Jews wander in the desert for 40 years, because he was somewhat discontent.
And now that I think about it. What about the ritual killing of animals? I don't consider that awful or anything of the sort, but it does again show you a violent nature.
Israel was born after yes, so what? It was born because he followed the true God wasn't it? And the true God just happened to kill Egyptians. After which he, by the way, let the Jews wander in the desert for 40 years, because he was somewhat discontent.
And now that I think about it. What about the ritual killing of animals? I don't consider that awful or anything of the sort, but it does again show you a violent nature.
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