Texas jury "smitten" with lunacy (1 Viewer)

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,913
#1
Texas execution looms after jury consult Bible
9 October 2009

As the international community prepares to mark the World Day Against the Death Penalty on 10 October, Amnesty International has highlighted two cases of people facing execution - one in the USA, one in Iran.

A Texas man who faces execution after jurors at his trial consulted the Bible when deliberating his fate should have his death sentence commuted, Amnesty International said on Friday.

Khristian Oliver, 32, is set to be killed on 5 November after jurors used Biblical passages supporting the death penalty to help them decide whether he should live or die.

Amnesty International is calling on the Texas authorities to commute Khristian Oliver's death sentence. The organization considers that the jurors' use of the Bible during their sentencing deliberations raises serious questions about their impartiality.

A US federal appeals court acknowledged last year that the jurors' use of the Bible amounted to an "external influence" prohibited under the US Constitution, but nonetheless upheld the death sentence.

Khristian Oliver was sentenced to death in 1999 for a murder committed during a burglary. According to accomplice testimony at the trial, 20-year-old Oliver shot the victim before striking him on the head with a rifle butt.

After the trial, evidence emerged that jurors had consulted the Bible during their sentencing deliberations. At a hearing in June 1999, four of the jurors recalled that several Bibles had been present and highlighted passages had been passed around.

One juror had read aloud from the Bible to a group of fellow jurors, including the passage, "And if he smite him with an instrument of iron, so that he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death".

The judge ruled that the jury had not acted improperly and this was upheld by the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals.

In 2002, a Danish journalist interviewed a fifth juror. The latter said that "about 80 per cent" of the jurors had "brought scripture into the deliberation", and that the jurors had consulted the Bible "long before we ever reached a verdict".

He told the journalist he believed "the Bible is truth from page 1 to the last page", and that if civil law and biblical law were in conflict, the latter should prevail.
[So yes, it does very much matter what crazy things people believe, as I've been saying around here for months.] He said that if he had been told he could not consult the Bible, "I would have left the courtroom". He described himself as a death penalty supporter, saying life imprisonment was a "burden" on the taxpayer.

In 2008, the US Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit found that the jurors had "crossed an important line" by consulting specific passages in the Bible that described the very facts at issue in the case. This amounted to an "external influence" on the jury prohibited under the US Constitution.

However, it concluded that under the "highly deferential standard" by which federal courts should review state court decisions, Oliver had failed to prove that he had been prejudiced by this unconstitutional juror conduct. In April 2009, the US Supreme Court refused to take the case, despite being urged to take it by nearly 50 former US federal and state prosecutors.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?id=ENGNAU2009100913472

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The whole jury gambit may be a nice idea to get independent people judging a case, but then you risk importing the absolute imbeciles into the case when selecting randomly from the population.

It's unbelievable than in an industrial post-Enlightenment society something like this is happening. These people did not get disqualified because there are no safeguards in place to protect defendants from religious lunacy.
 

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mikhail

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2003
9,576
#2
Maybe they need to add that question to the jury screening forms, and weed out people who believe a higher law applies even during jury duty.

I wonder, if this were a case where the defendant clearly shouldn't be put to death according to the law, would these people be guilty of murder? Probably the judge steps in then. Still, in Texas, who knows?
 
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Martin

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,913
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #4
    Maybe they need to ad that question to the jury screening forms, and weed out people who believe a higher law applies even during jury duty.
    There's a nice slogan I've seen floating around somewhere. No idea what or whom it applies to. "Separation of church and state."
     

    mikhail

    Senior Member
    Jan 24, 2003
    9,576
    #5
    There's a nice slogan I've seen floating around somewhere. No idea what or whom it applies to. "Separation of church and state."
    Yes, like they have in the US. It's a worthwhile idea, of course, but like everything else, it's not idiotproof.
     

    swag

    L'autista
    Administrator
    Sep 23, 2003
    84,750
    #6
    Ugh. When you have people consulting the Bible for jury instructions, that's a mistrial in any sense of American court law.

    Unless said jurors wouldn't mind if a jury of Scientologists decided their fate by consulting Tom Cruise. :rolleyes:
     

    mikhail

    Senior Member
    Jan 24, 2003
    9,576
    #14
    yeah and he makes a fairly valid point imo btw theres nothing illegal or unconstitutional in discussing the bible or making your decision based on your understanding of it.
    There used to be nothing illegal about a jury making its decision based on the colour of a man's skin either. I think they have to commit perjury to do it now.
     

    Enron

    Tickle Me
    Moderator
    Oct 11, 2005
    75,661
    #15
    Well as a juror you swear to judge the case by the letter of the law. Not the bible. So by breaking this oath, the juror commits a crime. In sentencing, the jury is supposed to go by precedent, cases that came before whichever one they are judging. I'm sure the bible was written well before the US court system came about, but the questionable validity of the case law provided by the bible makes it difficult to hand down a sentence based on precedent.

    In civilized states, juries don't sentence criminals. Judges do, which I also have a problem with in states that have elected judges. To elected a judge is to smite the very system you hope to emplore.
     

    swag

    L'autista
    Administrator
    Sep 23, 2003
    84,750
    #17
    yeah and he makes a fairly valid point imo btw theres nothing illegal or unconstitutional in discussing the bible or making your decision based on your understanding of it.
    But Utilitarianism is arguably the philosophy of the Chinese government.
     

    GordoDeCentral

    Diez
    Moderator
    Apr 14, 2005
    70,794
    #18
    There used to be nothing illegal about a jury making its decision based on the colour of a man's skin either. I think they have to commit perjury to do it now.
    no one ought to tell you what to think or believe, thats ridiculous attorneys ask questions to make sure the potential juror has no prejudice harming either client or state.

    But Utilitarianism is arguably the philosophy of the Chinese government.
    opposite day?
     

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