Tactics and Formations (11 Viewers)

pavluska

Senior Member
Apr 25, 2013
7,339
If Cuadrado is available, I would play this

Buffon
De Sciglio-Benatia-Chiellini-Asamoah
Cuadrado-Pjanić-Matuidi-Sandro
Dybala-Higuain​
This would be nice. But DC in Cuadra's place. And I think EuroMax would prefer Khedira instead of Matuidi in the middle of that formation. Matuidi not as tactically disciplined positionally as Khedira.

In 433 with Dybala and DC (which is still 442 in defense), attack is lopsided/not balanced with Dybala in center, DC on right, and only AS/Asabob provides width on the left.
 

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JUVESUPPORTER

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2003
712
I just wish there was a way to fit Asamoah, Costa, Cuadrado and Sandro into the same team for the sheer pace. Unfortunately you can't put all of them into any workable formation without sacrificing Matuidi's physicality in midfield. Pjanic wouldn't be able to run a midfield alone and his offensive threat would be completely nullified trying to do so.
 

Adrian

Senior Member
Jan 31, 2003
6,273
433...buffon de sciglio benetia chiellini sandro pjanic marchisio matuidi bernardeschi dybala higuain.

Most would disagree but i prefer bernadeschi over costa.
 

spurdo

Senior Member
Jun 4, 2016
1,877
I just wish there was a way to fit Asamoah, Costa, Cuadrado and Sandro into the same team for the sheer pace. Unfortunately you can't put all of them into any workable formation without sacrificing Matuidi's physicality in midfield. Pjanic wouldn't be able to run a midfield alone and his offensive threat would be completely nullified trying to do so.
3-4-3

----Sandro-Higuain-Costa-------
Asamoah-Matuidi-Pjanic-Cuads-
----Chiello-Benatia-Rugani------
-----------Pinsoglio---------------

Pretty much what Chelsea employs right now, and worked well last year.
 

soccerr9

Junior Member
Oct 5, 2015
51
I just wish there was a way to fit Asamoah, Costa, Cuadrado and Sandro into the same team for the sheer pace. Unfortunately you can't put all of them into any workable formation without sacrificing Matuidi's physicality in midfield. Pjanic wouldn't be able to run a midfield alone and his offensive threat would be completely nullified trying to do so.
Juve have so many options now on how to play imagine when Cuadrado and Bernardeschi return.

That Pjanic and Matuidi two man midfield worked so well vs Atalanta. It was Juve's best game against them this year.

With the way certain players of performed, the only sure starters when healthy to me are Higuaín, Dybala, Costa, Pjanic, Benatia, and Chiellini.

Beyond that Allegri could viably start Sandro, Asamoah, Mandzukic, Khedira, Marchisio, Cuadrado, Bernardeschi, MDS, Licht, Rugani, or Barzagli in any number of ways. Most of the time, it's so hard to even know who Allegri will start or in what formation with any advanced notice.
 

dyl1dyl

Senior Member
May 9, 2012
517
Juve have so many options now on how to play imagine when Cuadrado and Bernardeschi return.

That Pjanic and Matuidi two man midfield worked so well vs Atalanta. It was Juve's best game against them this year.

With the way certain players of performed, the only sure starters when healthy to me are Higuaín, Dybala, Costa, Pjanic, Benatia, and Chiellini.

Beyond that Allegri could viably start Sandro, Asamoah, Mandzukic, Khedira, Marchisio, Cuadrado, Bernardeschi, MDS, Licht, Rugani, or Barzagli in any number of ways. Most of the time, it's so hard to even know who Allegri will start or in what formation with any advanced notice.
yup, this is the 1 big factor that gives us a chance against any1 in the UCL. We can catch them off guard
 

rakib567

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2013
10,078
Narvas
Carvajal Verane Ramos Marcelo
Modric Casemiro Kroos
Isco
Benzema Ronaldo​

When they defend Isco moves to the right or left wing to man up against the opposition wingers. They form a 442. However, This is they weak point. Isco/Modric/Kroos are not great defensively and an overload in the fullback area is the key to winning this game.

We need to play as much pace on the wings.

Buffon
Lichtsteiner Rugani Chiellini Sandro
Cuadrado Khedira Matuidi/Marchisio D.Costa
Dybala Higuain​

Barcelona beat Real madrid 3-0 playing a 442 with

 

Hust

Senior Member
Hustini
May 29, 2005
93,349
The case for the Christmas tree at Juventus

With the most important stretch of the season upon us, the 4-3-2-1 is probably the best formation Max Allegri can choose for the Bianconeri.
By Sam Lopresti Mar 23, 2018, 4:00pm CET

We’re headed toward the home stretch of the season. There are only nine games left in the Serie A season, the UEFA Champions League has reached the quarterfinal stage, and the Coppa Italia final is set.

It’s a bit distressing then that, unlike in years past, Juventus doesn’t really have a set starting formation at this point in the year. And that is most unlike Massimiliano Allegri.

By this point in his first year with the team, the 2014-15 season, the 4-3-1-2 was the default starting position, with frequent in-game shifts to 3-5-2 as the situation dictated. The next season, changing back to the 3-5-2 ended up being a major factor in Juve’s epic comeback to win their fifth straight title, although Allegri still tinkered with various four-man back line formations in the Champions League. By this time last year, the so-called “Five Star” formation, a 4-2-3-1, was so locked in as the starting formation that by the end of the season it bordered on detrimental, given how few healthy forwards Allegri had at his disposal by the end and how little chance that gave them to rest.

But this year is different. We don’t really know what shape is going to pop out in a given week until an hour before game time when our phones chirp and our chosen app provides us with the starting XI. Of the several that Max has chosen over the season, I think that there is one that can be clearly marked out as the best choice as the starting formation going forward:

The 4-3-2-1 “Christmas tree” shape.

The club conducted its business in the transfer window with the “Five Star” in mind, and the 4-2-3-1 started the year as the standard, but there was something ... different about it. It wasn’t as solid defensively as it had been a year ago. In particular, the midfield was getting overwhelmed, putting Juve on the back foot against higher-quality opponents.

It’s not 100 percent clear what caused this change. It could be that the step back Sami Khedira has taken this season has left him unable to keep the balance of the midfield. Two of Juve’s worst games in the formation — the 3-2 loss at Sampdoria in November and last month’s brutal Champions League Round of 16 first leg against Tottenham Hotspur — have come with him making up part of the double pivot. The formation has certainly fared better with Blaise Matuidi’s energy and ability as a destroyer in that part of the park. It’s also possible that the loss of Leonardo Bonucci this summer reduced the formation’s effectiveness. Say what you will about the manner of his departure, but he was the only significant player in last year’s “Five Star” to leave and between his chemistry with the rest of the back line and his ability to find teammates with pinpoint accuracy on long balls out of the back, which could make up for the occasional off day in midfield, it’s not far fetched to think that his loss took something away from the system.

What is clear is that the run of success that Juve has seen since that loss to Sampdoria — 24 games unbeaten in all competitions with only four goals conceded, three of which came over the two legs against Tottenham — has largely been based on formations that employed three midfielders rather than two.

Using a three-man midfield gave the team the defensive stability that has been so uncharacteristically lacking for the first three-and-a-half months of the season. But using a three-man midfield presented a problem: How do you do so while still allowing Gonzalo Higuain and Paulo Dybala to successfully coexist on the field?

For a while this was a moot point. Between Dybala’s December benching and a six-week injury absence while dealing with a thigh problem at the beginning of 2018, it wasn’t a puzzle that Allegri needed to work out. But with La Joya not only healthy but seeming to round into form over the last few weeks, the issue has reappeared.

The most simple way to accommodate both Argentines would seem to be to shift Dybala onto one wing in a 4-3-3, but whether that would be most effective in practice is another matter. Dybala’s never played on the wing, so he would have to learn another new position barely 12 months after having to work out the trequartista role in the “Five Star.” After all sorts of speculation that he would replace Neymar at Barcelona, the Catalan club reportedly decided that he was “incompatible” with Lionel Messi, an indication they didn’t see him as a solution in the wide position Neymar played in. Beyond that, playing outside would put a shackle on some of Dybala’s best traits, in particular his ability to run the channels.

Other options all have drawbacks. The 3-5-2 would allow the two countrymen to work together as a traditional prima punta and seconda punta, respectively, but it would leave no room for quality wide players like Douglas Costa. I think we can all agree that that one should stay in its current role of late-game tactical change to see out a lead. The 4-3-1-2 would similarly crowd out players like Costa, and there isn’t a clear trequartista there unless Higuain and Mario Mandzukic play up top together with Dybala in the hole, or perhaps Miralem Pjanic is moved forward, but that seems contrary to how the Bosnian’s game is evolving.

This is where the 4-3-2-1 comes into play.

Juventus has only “officially” used the formation once, at least according to WhoScored.com. But it’s not uncommon for statistics sites and TV networks to misinterpret formations (for the second leg against Spurs, for example, WhoScored listed Juve’s formation as a 4-1-2-1-2 with Khedira in the hole and Costa as a mezz’ala), and I think a lot of games where Juve has been listed as using a 4-3-3 or 4-4-1-1 have seen them behave far more like a Christmas tree in actual practice.

The 4-3-2-1 is the best of all possible worlds: a three-man midfield to ensure balance and stability and a forward setup that uses both Higuain and Dybala to the best of their abilities.

Employing Dybala as one of a pair in the hole behind the No. 9 allows him the freedom to do pretty much anything. He can stay in the middle of the field or go wide as the situation dictates without being wedded to any one side. It also allows for a wealth of options alongside him — the speed of Costa, the power of Mandzukic, the technique of Federico Bernardeschi (if he manages to avoid surgery and return this season), and the unpredictability of Juan Cuadrado (if he manages to return from surgery before the end of the season) all compliment Dybala in different ways and can be mixed and matched based on what will be most effective against a given opponent. All can be effective working off the efforts of Higuain just ahead of them.

Using this kind of attacking trio — more of a spearhead or arrowhead than a trident — brings a lot of versatility. Allegri can easily swap out a forward based on the needs of the game and significantly change the way the front three functions. It also lends itself to the in-game tactical flexibility that Max so loves in games. If there is need to protect a lead, remove one of the front three for a center-back and the 3-5-2 can help see the game out. If there’s need to chase a game, a midfielder can be swapped for another forward to get back into the 4-2-3-1.

I’m more critical of Allegri than most, but it’s impossible to deny that he has always found the right base formation for a given season. Some years have taken a little longer than others, but he always ends up finding it. The next eight weeks will decide trophies and perhaps legacies. He has a lot of options in finding a shape, but the 4-3-2-1 is the only one that offers the versatility he craves with the balance the team needs and the ability to play both his Argentine hit men in roles that maximize their talent simultaneously. It’s entirely possible that he will find some other solution that I haven’t dreamed up, but based on what I can see in front of me, this system is the best one he can employ given what he has at his disposal.

Oh, Christmas tree, oh, Christmas tree....

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.blackwhitereadallover.c...allegri-christmas-tree-formation-2018-serie-a
 

MikeM

Footballing Hipster celebrating 4th place with Tuz
Sep 21, 2008
12,462
4-3-2-1 is not a serious formation. It becomes a 4-3-3 by default if you want to actually hold possession. The 2 behind Higuain will have to drift to the touchline to find space and get on the ball. It's impossible to play so narrow against a big team and hold the ball.

Then you are also sacrificing protection for the fullbacks. What spaces do the "2" take up in defence? Do the CMs drift wide to help the fullbacks and leave Dybala to protect the centre?

The best option, if you want to change formation, is to just put Dybala at RW in a 4-3-3 and force him to run until he dies.

That's all you can do really. Otherwise it is 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 and pray.
 

MikeM

Footballing Hipster celebrating 4th place with Tuz
Sep 21, 2008
12,462
It's the same scenario. Who provides width? If Alex Sandro has the ball and he switches it across the backline to MDS. MDS looks up on his flank and who does he pass it to? He's going to end up passing to a striker who has to come all the way to the touchline. Or it has to be 2014 form Pogba or Marchisio all the way wide, not Khedira.

And then you need a CAM like Vidal who comes into the midfield so you can play a 4-4-2 in defence.

We just don't have this quality of CMs available to us. And there are certain areas of the pitch that simply need to be occupied if you want to be successful. The touchlines have to be occupied. The fullbacks need an option on the wing to pass the ball.
 

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