Tactics and Formations (56 Viewers)

[Maddy]

1- The team have memorize it, we can switch back when needed like in away CL games in play offs.

2- its too conservative against smaller teams.

3- not suitable for current squad esp. that Marchisio is out.

4- our un-used talents are on wings either LMF/RMF, or RWF/LWF
All benched.

Time to change

Only 1 out of 4 is correct.

The 3-5-2 is not a conservative formation. The tactics and instructions given by the coach might be, but not the formation. Formations in football are given way too much attention. The mean so little compared to collective and individual instructions. Football isn't a static game like Baseball.

If 3-5-2 is not suitable for the squad? Then there is no formation suitable for the squad. You want Dybala on the wing? Want Sandro/Alves in 4-backline, where either Chiellini or Barzagli should cover the room behind them? Want a two-man midfield of Pjanic and Khedira? Want to rely on Pjaca and Cuadrado for width? Come the fuck on...

There's a reason why talents are talents. And you are talking about one player in his first season in italian football; a league notorious for its difficulty to acclimatise to, due to especially the tactical part of football in Italy.

Let's change a system to fit in Pjaca. What a great idea! Surely we'll win every game 5-0 and reach CL-GLORY!

 

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[JUVEMOOD]

And that automatically makes the team perform better?

Gotcha'.



1. Exactly. We are a better team with the 3-5-2, but being flexible won't hurt.

2. It's not. We have trashed several teams using this formation. Don't let this current form cloud your judgement, again.

3. Could be an option to use wingers until Marchisio is out, true, but I don't see it as a big advantage if our form won't improve. It's not just the midfield that's under-performing. I didn't see anyone complain about the formation until the Sevilla game.

4. Which makes sense because Allegri is still figuring out what is his best team, and the 3-5-2 should always be the standard formation for this squad. I don't know how you can't see this.

5. Agreed. Time for the players to step up and Allegri to fire them up. Changing formations won't do much if we can't string 3 consecutive passes together.

2- we are not debating the formations, but what is suitable for current squad.

3- i see best to this squad a christmas tree formation 4321. (No pure wingers) one of pjaca and cuadrado with dybala and higgy upfront. Mid of Lemina, Khedira and Pjanic.
352 for this squad are missing a suitable midfields and even with Marchi, any injury, suspension, drop of form of the 3 mids, you will see a team that cannot create.
Clearly 352 gives more security than 4321 but also currently it is not working for this squad.

So.. 352 of current squad is not working, what do you think we should do... keep using 352 no matter what?

Also.. seriously.. we need a change, not for the sake of change.. but to have different options.

4- I dont see 352 suitable for this squad.. it gave us before possession with creativity and security, now we can have less security(still safe though), no creativity (waiting moments of brilliance or opponent mistakes), and a negative possession.

4321
Less secured at the back, more legs in middle; most of them talented and can keep possession; and should give more creativity.

5- the secured 352 made the team lazy. (Few could score, sooner or later in the match we will score).

Anyway, its opinions and speculations that could be right or wrong.

 

[Hydde]

Yeh. Our current midfielders cant hold a 352 like vidla pirlo/marchisio pogba did.

Is silly to pretend we can pull It without them, and being as effective

 

[Kopanja]

It's a different 352 then it was before, not only because of the midfield, hard to compare them.
But yeah, we should try something back 4 based and this all makes Lichts exclusion from CL to look even more strange.

Edited: And I am not sure 352 with Pirlo-Vidal etc. was something to be compared to. Attacking wise it was very poor imo.

 

[Klin]

2- we are not debating the formations, but what is suitable for current squad.

3- i see best to this squad a christmas tree formation 4321. (No pure wingers) one of pjaca and cuadrado with dybala and higgy upfront. Mid of Lemina, Khedira and Pjanic.
352 for this squad are missing a suitable midfields and even with Marchi, any injury, suspension, drop of form of the 3 mids, you will see a team that cannot create.
Clearly 352 gives more security than 4321 but also currently it is not working for this squad.

So.. 352 of current squad is not working, what do you think we should do... keep using 352 no matter what?

Also.. seriously.. we need a change, not for the sake of change.. but to have different options.

4- I dont see 352 suitable for this squad.. it gave us before possession with creativity and security, now we can have less security(still safe though), no creativity (waiting moments of brilliance or opponent mistakes), and a negative possession.

4321
Less secured at the back, more legs in middle; most of them talented and can keep possession; and should give more creativity.

5- the secured 352 made the team lazy. (Few could score, sooner or later in the match we will score).

Anyway, its opinions and speculations that could be right or wrong.

The 352 is very much suitable for the current squad. I don't see what your point is. The fact that we're not capable of making a successful string of passes at the moment has nothing to do with the formation. I feel like I'm repeating myself. The formation has nothing to do with our current "problem". We're simply still finding our feet.

 

[JUVEMOOD]

The 352 is very much suitable for the current squad. I don't see what your point is. The fact that we're not capable of making a successful string of passes at the moment has nothing to do with the formation. I feel like I'm repeating myself. The formation has nothing to do with our current "problem". We're simply still finding our feet.

You see it your way, I see it my way.
For me, 4321 is more suitable for this squad... 352 more suitable for u, u have ur points and I have mine.

No need for further discussion on this.

 

[Zacheryah]

You see it your way, I see it my way.
For me, 4321 is more suitable for this squad... 352 more suitable for u, u have ur points and I have mine.

No need for further discussion on this.

Nope, cause you are wrong.

 

[TheTruth]

As mentioned before on this forum, the 3-5-2 in itself isn't the problem, it's how the coach and the team expresses it.

Players can have off nights and lack severely on a technical level which makes it look awful, as against Inter. For the most part it looks great in Serie A.

I still stand by the point that Juventus under Allegri looked most fluid and effective when we played 4-3-1-2 both in the league and CL in the beginning of 2015. But most of those players are gone now. We had players who could run at defenses by themselves in Pereyra, Pogba, Tevez, Morata and Vidal to an extent. This squad lacks those kind of direct pshysically imposing threats, so I do understand Allegri's hesitation with going back to that.

We're definetely not going far in CL with 3-5-2 though so he has to adapt this squad to a 4-4-2, 4-3-1-2 or whatever 4 man backline suits us. Serie A is so extremely tactical which makes it harder for a team like Juventus in Europe. The best teams play in CL like they play domestically (Barca, Real, Bayern). I don't know if that's possible for a Serie A team.

 

[DAiDEViL]

Very well put.

Agree with everything except 4-3-3, wingers/with great fullbacks behind them would take the creative/attacking burden from our diminished in quality CM options, but 3 man attack simply doesnt work for our most important player in Dybala. You cant have him and sign a great FW like Gonzalo and then play a formation they cant coexist. That tactic oughta be only when you resting Dybala, or god forbid the other FW options are injured. FYI I remember Allegri trying 4-3-3 couple times last season, and he had NO plans for Dybala in that set up who was benched early in the season. He played Morata LW lol and Mandzukic/Zaza CF, with Cuadrado out right. He was cathegorically against having Dybala as the CF in that set up to begin with, and the kid is no way a winger, despite how people likes to suggest "but he can cut in" like its that easy. So defenitely this is not a formation I expect him touse when both Dybala and Higauin are available...

I agree Dybala isn't a winger, but wouldn't he have a free role anyway? he could keep playing pretty much in the same position he already does in the 352. Just make it a little asymmetric.


--------Bonucci---Chiellini
D.Alves------Marchisio----A.Sandro
--------Khedira-----Pjanic
----------------------------Pjaca
------Dybala
--------------Higuain

looks good to me

 

[Osman]

I agree Dybala isn't a winger, but wouldn't he have a free role anyway? he could keep playing pretty much in the same position he already does in the 352. Just make it a little asymmetric.


--------Bonucci---Chiellini
D.Alves------Marchisio----A.Sandro
--------Khedira-----Pjanic
----------------------------Pjaca
------Dybala
--------------Higuain

looks good to me

Call that 4-3-1-2 with the AM having license to drift wide, because Dybala is FW in that set up basically if he is gonna be that close to Higauin, being the wing forward means you stay wide off the ball to keep the shape/help out fullback, And receive the ball wide often when if you cut in.

 

[vodka]

this must be tried on the field

 

[Zacheryah]

I agree Dybala isn't a winger, but wouldn't he have a free role anyway? he could keep playing pretty much in the same position he already does in the 352. Just make it a little asymmetric.


--------Bonucci---Chiellini
D.Alves------Marchisio----A.Sandro
--------Khedira-----Pjanic
----------------------------Pjaca
------Dybala
--------------Higuain

looks good to me

You'd be surprised how similar that formation becomes compared to the 3-5-2 with in form Pogba at the end of last season

Alves will be moving up very high, Sandro will play closer to the defence most of the time, Pjaca will have the freedom of Pogba and the frontline works like the 3-5-2.


But this is what we'd play if Pjaca turns out to be the bee's knee's


Oh and Dybala always needs to be in the center, as he becomes incredibly inefficient on the wing for obvious reasons.

 

[Bjerknes]

The 3-5-2 is not a conservative formation.

But it really is. You will always have the wingbacks defending to the goal line, so essentially it will always be a 5-3-2 when we don't have possession. When we do have possession, the 3-5-2 might offer good crossing opportunities, but we have seen movement in the middle to be rather stagnant. It's not like the wingers are superhuman and can run like Usain Bolt -- they can't be true attacking wingers at any point due to their inherent defensive responsibilities. A back four with Alves and AS would offer the same attacking capabilities on the wings in possession and another option in the middle of the pitch instead of Chiellini on the sides trying to dictate play. The worst thing about the 3-5-2 is having those side CB's pinching up the pitch trying to dictate play when we need a goal -- it's asinine.

 

[Scottish]

You'd be surprised how similar that formation becomes compared to the 3-5-2 with in form Pogba at the end of last season

Alves will be moving up very high, Sandro will play closer to the defence most of the time, Pjaca will have the freedom of Pogba and the frontline works like the 3-5-2.


But this is what we'd play if Pjaca turns out to be the bee's knee's


Oh and Dybala always needs to be in the center, as he becomes incredibly inefficient on the wing for obvious reasons.

I like it, @DAiDEViL. It brings to mind the 352 Italy used to get to the final of EURO 2012. De Rossi was playing as the middle CB but when Italy had the ball he'd move forward into the DM position. Luckily Marchisio is one of the most positionally intelligent and tactically aware midfielders in world football.

We have the ingredients, it could be worth a try.

 

[Zacheryah]

But it really is. You will always have the wingbacks defending to the goal line, so essentially it will always be a 5-3-2 when we don't have possession. When we do have possession, the 3-5-2 might offer good crossing opportunities, but we have seen movement in the middle to be rather stagnant. It's not like the wingers are superhuman and can run like Usain Bolt -- they can't be true attacking wingers at any point due to their inherent defensive responsibilities. A back four with Alves and AS would offer the same attacking capabilities on the wings in possession and another option in the middle of the pitch instead of Chiellini on the sides trying to dictate play. The worst thing about the 3-5-2 is having those side CB's pinching up the pitch trying to dictate play when we need a goal -- it's asinine.

Yeah, i bet you dont see that in the MLS

 

[Hydde]

But it really is. You will always have the wingbacks defending to the goal line, so essentially it will always be a 5-3-2 when we don't have possession. When we do have possession, the 3-5-2 might offer good crossing opportunities, but we have seen movement in the middle to be rather stagnant. It's not like the wingers are superhuman and can run like Usain Bolt -- they can't be true attacking wingers at any point due to their inherent defensive responsibilities. A back four with Alves and AS would offer the same attacking capabilities on the wings in possession and another option in the middle of the pitch instead of Chiellini on the sides trying to dictate play. The worst thing about the 3-5-2 is having those side CB's pinching up the pitch trying to dictate play when we need a goal -- it's asinine.

This is it basically. If we played a way more offensive minded 352, it could maybe work.. but our current 352 is too set up to defend. Also it doesnt help that our current midfield is simply not clicking in any way.

If we had 2012 Pirlo with prime Vidal and Pogba in the middle...and sandro and Alves flanking them..hell i would be all in for that 352 because we know we have solidity in the middle and a supreme ball player in Pirlo. But right now, we just cant have that luxury. Right now, Sandro is the only real deal of our wingbacks. Licht and Evra (which are constanttly present in our formations)...offer nothing going forward and when you couple that with our wonky midfield...well you get the kind of performances we have had.

As mentioned before on this forum, the 3-5-2 in itself isn't the problem, it's how the coach and the team expresses it.

Players can have off nights and lack severely on a technical level which makes it look awful, as against Inter. For the most part it looks great in Serie A.

I still stand by the point that Juventus under Allegri looked most fluid and effective when we played 4-3-1-2 both in the league and CL in the beginning of 2015. But most of those players are gone now. We had players who could run at defenses by themselves in Pereyra, Pogba, Tevez, Morata and Vidal to an extent. This squad lacks those kind of direct pshysically imposing threats, so I do understand Allegri's hesitation with going back to that.

, but still we need to do something about our 352, because the players that made our midfield tick in Conte´s 352 are also all gone bar marchisio.

We're definetely not going far in CL with 3-5-2 though so he has to adapt this squad to a 4-4-2, 4-3-1-2 or whatever 4 man backline suits us. Serie A is so extremely tactical which makes it harder for a team like Juventus in Europe. The best teams play in CL like they play domestically (Barca, Real, Bayern). I don't know if that's possible for a Serie A team.

Of that im sure. We are simply not going far with this scheme. We will get exposed in the next phase most likely, if we make past the group stages. In KOs you need to be able to score or simply withstand like Atletico...and we are shaky on both. Definiyely doesnt look good.

And about big teams playing like they do in CL and in house, yes you can bet and arm and a leg that Bayern and Barcelona would have a field day in serie A. yeah, teams would go all tactical and park the bus, but in the end the quality and superior offensive would prevail. The days Italy had supreme defenders are long gone. Parking the bus will get you so far, but in the end you need to score goals and in italy teams are too acustomed to not attack. When they face teams who can really destroy, they struggle, mainly because of the difference in quality.

 

[Bjerknes]

Yeah, i bet you dont see that in the MLS

I'll take the MLS fans over a complete retard like you any day of the week.

 

[italiacalcio10]

I don't see an issue with Dybala playing out wide. It is not like he would play as a true winger. Sanchez played out wide and he isn't a winger. Fact is if he is playing wide, he is probably adopting a secondary striker role on the right side. I don't think anyone is expecting him to adopt a Candreva role. He would play more like Alexis at Barcelona than Angel Di Maria at Madrid when he played right wing.

 

[Hydde]

I don't see an issue with Dybala playing out wide. It is not like he would play as a true winger. Sanchez played out wide and he isn't a winger. Fact is if he is playing wide, he is probably adopting a secondary striker role on the right side. I don't think anyone is expecting him to adopt a Candreva role. He would play more like Alexis at Barcelona than Angel Di Maria at Madrid when he played right wing.

The truth is that he is roaming a lot and he is doing it well, only lacking goals and a little calmness.

He is very skilled...he can play a lot of attacking roles.

 

[napoleonic]

Does anyone actually use 352 formation with juve when they play pes/fifa/fm?