Tactics and Formations (23 Viewers)
- Thread starter JCK
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Hey everyone, i just wanted to ask you guys what you think about a tactical issue, so i figured i'd post it in here as well as the match thread, here goes:
In my opinion we just lacked that cutting edge vs Brescia, as well as basic tactical understanding.
You would expect common sense to prevail, however it rarely does these days with Juve.
For example, we play Del Piero and Quagliarella, and then insist on playing the ball for the majority of the time down the right flank, to two of our poorer performers so far this season in Motta and Pepe.
Additionally, the fact that Pepe/Motta rarely put in very effective crosses is further amplified by the fact that they really have one option to aim for (Quagliarella, because realistically how often is Del Piero going to win a header over a Serie A quality defender).
This emphasis on weak wing play, coupled with Sissoko's inability to make more than 1 effective pass in a row in most cases hurts our team alot. Aquilani didn't have a great game today either and was a bit sloppy when he got involved, but realistically Sissoko is there to win the ball and lay it off to him, something that doesn't happen often enough.
Lastly, the previously mentioned emphasis on playing the ball down the right flank isolates Marchisio on the left flank for long periods of the game, which negatively affects us since on his day he can really kickstart a good counter attack or setup a nice play down the left or middle along with Aquilani.
I'm not saying that we should never attack down the wings, as that would be stupid as well, but i feel like we need to exploit the field more, by moving the ball across the width quickly, and sometimes trying to trust Del Piero's creativity and Quag's pace by playing the ball down the middle more often, and trying to create chances closer to the goal/middle of the box/outside the middle of the box (the pitch was small today, so i can't blame the lads completely as it was very crowded).
Anyways, that's my opinion and apologies that it was a tad long. Does anyone agree/disagree? I'm interested to see what you guys think of our tactics in this game or our general gameplay these days.
In my opinion we just lacked that cutting edge vs Brescia, as well as basic tactical understanding.
You would expect common sense to prevail, however it rarely does these days with Juve.
For example, we play Del Piero and Quagliarella, and then insist on playing the ball for the majority of the time down the right flank, to two of our poorer performers so far this season in Motta and Pepe.
Additionally, the fact that Pepe/Motta rarely put in very effective crosses is further amplified by the fact that they really have one option to aim for (Quagliarella, because realistically how often is Del Piero going to win a header over a Serie A quality defender).
This emphasis on weak wing play, coupled with Sissoko's inability to make more than 1 effective pass in a row in most cases hurts our team alot. Aquilani didn't have a great game today either and was a bit sloppy when he got involved, but realistically Sissoko is there to win the ball and lay it off to him, something that doesn't happen often enough.
Lastly, the previously mentioned emphasis on playing the ball down the right flank isolates Marchisio on the left flank for long periods of the game, which negatively affects us since on his day he can really kickstart a good counter attack or setup a nice play down the left or middle along with Aquilani.
I'm not saying that we should never attack down the wings, as that would be stupid as well, but i feel like we need to exploit the field more, by moving the ball across the width quickly, and sometimes trying to trust Del Piero's creativity and Quag's pace by playing the ball down the middle more often, and trying to create chances closer to the goal/middle of the box/outside the middle of the box (the pitch was small today, so i can't blame the lads completely as it was very crowded).
Anyways, that's my opinion and apologies that it was a tad long. Does anyone agree/disagree? I'm interested to see what you guys think of our tactics in this game or our general gameplay these days.
I don't think Juve chose to play it wide right all the time.
Brescia knew that Juve were less likely to pose a threat from that area, so left spqace out there while making sure they had lots of players in the middle of the pitch to deal with Juve's more dangerous players (Del Piero, Quag, Aquilani).
Always remember that things not going Juve's way doesn't always mean Juve are doing badly; it can be that the opposition has got its tactics right.
Brescia knew that Juve were less likely to pose a threat from that area, so left spqace out there while making sure they had lots of players in the middle of the pitch to deal with Juve's more dangerous players (Del Piero, Quag, Aquilani).
Always remember that things not going Juve's way doesn't always mean Juve are doing badly; it can be that the opposition has got its tactics right.
We don't use our fullbacks enough (mostly because they suck though). They're the difference when you play shit teams and tie 0-0 or struggle to score.
Imagine if we had Grygera at LB instead of Grosso vs. Brescia. We would have lost.
It's imperative in football today to have fullbacks who can do something offensively.
Brescia packs the middle of the pitch and our fullbacks add nothing on the wings = game over.
Imagine if we had Grygera at LB instead of Grosso vs. Brescia. We would have lost.
It's imperative in football today to have fullbacks who can do something offensively.
Brescia packs the middle of the pitch and our fullbacks add nothing on the wings = game over.
You don't know that.
You can't just put different players into a team and assume the game would have followed the exact same pattern.
Depends what system you play.
It is not imperative in a 4-4-2 for both fullbacks to be able to attack.
There was space for the wingers, but Marchisio and Pepe aren't likely to beat their man and deliver a good cross.
That was the problem last night, not anything to do with who was at full back.
You can't just put different players into a team and assume the game would have followed the exact same pattern.
Depends what system you play.
It is not imperative in a 4-4-2 for both fullbacks to be able to attack.
There was space for the wingers, but Marchisio and Pepe aren't likely to beat their man and deliver a good cross.
That was the problem last night, not anything to do with who was at full back.
The problem is that we only have one flank that threatens the opposition defense, the right flank. With Marchisio out left, he's not going to provide the width we need to maximize the productivity of the system, especially when sides sit back against us. You need a true winger out there, or at least someone who can take on players.
I don't know why these managers keep using the same tried and untrue decisions when fielding players. Just because Marchisio was fielded out left by other managers does not mean he can play there. This is sort of like how Inter used Farinos in goal in 2002 after Toldo got sent off, having consecutive managers use him as a backup goalkeeper. He doesn't frickin' play there.
I don't know why these managers keep using the same tried and untrue decisions when fielding players. Just because Marchisio was fielded out left by other managers does not mean he can play there. This is sort of like how Inter used Farinos in goal in 2002 after Toldo got sent off, having consecutive managers use him as a backup goalkeeper. He doesn't frickin' play there.
You act as if they have been out all season. They have not. Marchisio has been used out there for months now.
This is the deal, Red. Either you admit that these managers just follow each other along like little ducklings, or our transfer strategy was a failure. You were one of those that claimed we should have fielded the straight 4-4-2 last year, but even after we brought in all these folks this year, we still use Marchisio out wide.
This is the deal, Red. Either you admit that these managers just follow each other along like little ducklings, or our transfer strategy was a failure. You were one of those that claimed we should have fielded the straight 4-4-2 last year, but even after we brought in all these folks this year, we still use Marchisio out wide.
Andy, I have never claimed Marchisio out wide was ideal.
I thought that Juve would have been better playing 4-4-1-1 last season, with Marchisio and Camoranesi wide, than they were playing 4-3-1-2. That doesn't mean I thought it was a good option.
Marchisio was not being used wide with with any regularity at the start of this season, because Aquilani was out and the wingers were fit.
Aquilani and Melo is now established as the best pairing in midfield, so the question becomes who should play on the left wing out of Marchisio or Pepe, given that Martinez has barely been fit.
Even though he is not a winger, I think Marchisio offers more on the left that Pepe does.
Still, if you feel that Juve should have had enough wingers to cope with three being out at the same time, feel free to whinge.
I thought that Juve would have been better playing 4-4-1-1 last season, with Marchisio and Camoranesi wide, than they were playing 4-3-1-2. That doesn't mean I thought it was a good option.
Marchisio was not being used wide with with any regularity at the start of this season, because Aquilani was out and the wingers were fit.
Aquilani and Melo is now established as the best pairing in midfield, so the question becomes who should play on the left wing out of Marchisio or Pepe, given that Martinez has barely been fit.
Even though he is not a winger, I think Marchisio offers more on the left that Pepe does.
Still, if you feel that Juve should have had enough wingers to cope with three being out at the same time, feel free to whinge.
I think the only time Marchisio started when Pepe was on the bench was against Inter, when Pepe got a slight injury in the warm up and wasn't risked.
I don't know what Delneri will do.
I would like to think that in some games he would see the need for a proper winger, but Marchisio playing wide doesn't bother me so long as there is an attacking fullback on that side.
I don't know what Delneri will do.
I would like to think that in some games he would see the need for a proper winger, but Marchisio playing wide doesn't bother me so long as there is an attacking fullback on that side.