Türkiye (13 Viewers)

[Seven]

I'm not saying you should look past the issues. I'm just saying that for the majority of people, it doesn't seem to stop them from being attracted to the place. Which is not surprising, in general for middle class people, it is a place with tax free salaries, it has international schools, it's extremely safe, and it has most of the things expatriate workers look for. Does that mean all those people condone some of the violations that happen there? Of course not, just like not everyone living in Israel condones Israel's violations, not everyone living in the US condones their host country's torture centers all over the world and their invasion of third world countries, and not everyone living in China, Malaysia and Thailand condone the practice of sweatshops and child labour.

I also don't understand what you mean by what is highlighted in italic; it is a good place to work for people of all kinds of nationalities. Also the horror stories you refer to(I believe you're referring to those involving westerners here), are few and far between, you remind me of people here who think that muslims in the West get harassed all the time because of the stories they read in the papers, when of course even those incidents in the West are few and far between.

They're not really. They pop up every few months and there are not too many Belgians working in Qatar. I'd say percentagewise the situation would be pretty bad. I'm not sure what you mean by the way. I still think the majority of expats in Qatar are safe. But not getting locked up on bullshit charges 95% of the time does not sound appealing.

In all fairness most Belgians will only consider work in Qatar if there is a substantial increase in pay. It's not as attractive as let's say the States, Canada or Australia.

 

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[Azzurri7]

I see he still isn't banned, not only that but to save him his posts and the ones quoting him are deleted.

And you're referring to?

 

[Juliano13]

Qatar is an abomination, Fred. There are so many things wrong with that place I don't even know where to begin. I'm sure that it can be a nice place to work for highly skilled western workers (and even then the stories some of them tell when they 'escape' Qatar do not paint a rosy picture), but the issues are too deep and too big to look past. I honestly think you'd do yourself a massive favour if you'd just concede this.

Oh, and just for the record, I think most western Europeans would never ever consider a move to Israel. It might be attractive to Juliano13, but the overwhelming majority of Europeans would avoid it.

Most Europeans would never consider a move for a different reasons, they think it isn't safe. Also, Israel doesn't have local population that wash their asses with oil and have no desire or ability to work, therefore there so not that much demand for expat labour.

 

[Fred]

They're not really. They pop up every few months and there are not too many Belgians working in Qatar. I'd say percentagewise the situation would be pretty bad. I'm not sure what you mean by the way. I still think the majority of expats in Qatar are safe. But not getting locked up on bullshit charges 95% of the time does not sound appealing.

In all fairness most Belgians will only consider work in Qatar if there is a substantial increase in pay. It's not as attractive as let's say the States, Canada or Australia.

I think you are seriously exaggerating the number of incidents. Also I'm not sure what you mean people get locked up on bullshit charges? do you mean the laws are stupid? if so, then maybe they are, but at the end of the day you have to observe the law of the land wherever you are, regardless of what you may think of it. If you mean that they are locked up on made up charges, then I doubt that would happen, plus what would they gain from it? Qatar is a country that really wants to attract people from developed countries.

As for the second paragraph, ya that is probably true for most cases. But that isn't surprising, people tend to prefer living in a country that is closer to their culture. There are tons of Arabs who were born and raised in Western countries like the UK, US, Canada and France that have been moving to this part of the world, many of them even take pay cuts to do so, which again isn't surprising because even if they've lived all their lives in that part of the world, many of them still are culturally closer to the Middle East.

I'm not saying Qatar is a nicer country than the countries you mentioned, even on a personal level I wouldn't prefer to live in Qatar over those countries, but I do think you seriously exaggerate what Qatar is like for skilled workers, westerners or non westerners.

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Most Europeans would never consider a move for a different reasons, they think it isn't safe. Also, Israel doesn't have local population that wash their asses with oil and have no desire or ability to work, therefore there so not that much demand for expat labour.

You're beginning to sound like a bigot. How did you come up with the conclusion that the local population have no desire or ability to work.

 

[Seven]

I think you are seriously exaggerating the number of incidents. Also I'm not sure what you mean people get locked up on bullshit charges? do you mean the laws are stupid? if so, then maybe they are, but at the end of the day you have to observe the law of the land wherever you are, regardless of what you may think of it. If you mean that they are locked up on made up charges, then I doubt that would happen, plus what would they gain from it? Qatar is a country that really wants to attract people from developed countries.

As for the second paragraph, ya that is probably true for most cases. But that isn't surprising, people tend to prefer living in a country that is closer to their culture. There are tons of Arabs who were born and raised in Western countries like the UK, US, Canada and France that have been moving to this part of the world, many of them even take pay cuts to do so, which again isn't surprising because even if they've lived all their lives in that part of the world, many of them still are culturally closer to the Middle East.

I'm not saying Qatar is a nicer country than the countries you mentioned, even on a personal level I wouldn't prefer to live in Qatar over those countries, but I do think you seriously exaggerate what Qatar is like for skilled workers, westerners or non westerners.

No, I just think we're not getting each other here. I think Qatar is going to be pretty safe for the vast majority of skilled western workers.

Also, yes, you have to observe the law of the land. But if the law of the land is stupid, and sharia law is stupid, it's a reason not go to the land in the first place. It's going to hold a lot of westerners back. That and the fact Qatar is basically desert obviously. It's not like the climate is appealing .

 

[Azzurri7]

Most Europeans would never consider a move for a different reasons, they think it isn't safe. Also, Israel doesn't have local population that wash their asses with oil and have no desire or ability to work, therefore there so not that much demand for expat labour.

If you don't know much of a topic why are you talking?

Israel is one of those countries that have no desire or commitment to work but hire someone else to do theirs.

Credits must be given though, they surely know how to occupy lands, only vikings are ahead of them.

 

[Seven]

Most Europeans would never consider a move for a different reasons, they think it isn't safe. Also, Israel doesn't have local population that wash their asses with oil and have no desire or ability to work, therefore there so not that much demand for expat labour.

They would avoid it because it is unsafe, but also because Israel's behaviour towards neighbouring states has considerably hurt Israel's image.

 

[j0ker]

And you're referring to?

Turk.

 

[Juliano13]

I'm not saying you should look past the issues. I'm just saying that for the majority of people, it doesn't seem to stop them from being attracted to the place. Which is not surprising, in general for middle class people, it is a place with tax free salaries, it has international schools, it's extremely safe, and it has most of the things expatriate workers look for. Does that mean all those people condone some of the violations that happen there? Of course not, just like not everyone living in Israel condones Israel's violations, not everyone living in the US condones their host country's torture centers all over the world and their invasion of third world countries, and not everyone living in China, Malaysia and Thailand condone the practice of sweatshops and child labour.

I also don't understand what you mean by what is highlighted in italic; it is a good place to work for people of all kinds of nationalities. Also the horror stories you refer to(I believe you're referring to those involving westerners here), are few and far between, you remind me of people here who think that muslims in the West get harassed all the time because of the stories they read in the papers, when of course even those incidents in the West are few and far between.

Of course it doesn't stop many people from going there. The majority of the people couldn't care less about any of that. Most of them don't even care much about their own libery and would exchange it for a few extra bucks.

As to the bold part, in a way yes. It means that they don't mind living in a theocratic dictatorship. We obviously have a different opinion about Israel, but the same logic applies to the jews who move to Israel. Clearly, they support the state. But this doesn't apply to the local population, obviously.

 

[Fred]

No, I just think we're not getting each other here. I think Qatar is going to be pretty safe for the vast majority of skilled western workers.

Also, yes, you have to observe the law of the land. But if the law of the land is stupid, and sharia law is stupid, it's a reason not go to the land in the first place. It's going to hold a lot of westerners back. That and the fact Qatar is basically desert obviously. It's not like the climate is appealing .

Ya, we agree on that. I apply the same logic btw to extremists who choose to go and live in western countries. I mean if you really believe that the people you live amongst are good for nothing infidels, then just don't go and live there. Those who believe the laws in Qatar are stupid and don't see themselves being able to tolerate them, should just not go and live in Qatar. I'm sure that in most of those cases, these are people who actually had a choice on where to live.
As for the climate, I won't pretend I love it, but believe me, people don't really have to experience it that often, as everywhere you go is air conditioned. Then for 3-4 months a year, the weather is actually amazing. Serious question though, how is it different than countries who rarely get any sunshine and are cold for most of the year. You may be used to that, but desert people such as myself would struggle to live in that kind of weather

 

[Juliano13]

They would avoid it because it is unsafe, but also because Israel's behaviour towards neighbouring states has considerably hurt Israel's image.

That's my point exactly.

Some people wouldn't go there because it's unsafe, some wouldn't because wages are not high enough, and some wouldn't because they don't approve the policies of the state of Israel (the major policies, of course) or even think it has no right to exist. People who do move to Israel either approve the policies or at least don't care. If we apply the same logic to Qatar, we can say that people who move there in a way condone the human right violations and the theocratic dictatorship.

 

[Azzurri7]

Turk.

He clearly doesn't know how to deal with trolls reminds me of myself in Dp thread but I don't see him doing much wrong except when everyone is on his back.

 

[Fred]

Of course it doesn't stop many people from going there. The majority of the people couldn't care less about any of that. Most of them don't even care much about their own libery and would exchange it for a few extra bucks.

As to the bold part, in a way yes. It means that they don't mind living in a theocratic dictatorship. We obviously have a different opinion about Israel, but the same logic applies to the jews who move to Israel. Clearly, they support the state. But this doesn't apply to the local population, obviously.

You can say a lot about Qatar, but do you really believe it's a theocracy? Saudi Arabia maybe, but Qatar has alcohol all over the place, beaches with bikini clad women and all that, it certainly isn't the Saudi Arabia you imagine

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That's my point exactly.

Some people wouldn't go there because it's unsafe, some wouldn't because wages are not high enough, and some wouldn't because they don't approve the policies of the state of Israel (the major policies, of course) or even think it has no right to exist. People who do move to Israel either approve the policies or at least don't care. If we apply the same logic to Qatar, we can say that people who move there in a way condone the human right violations and the theocratic dictatorship.

How about the people who go and work in China. All of them condone child labor and sweat-shops?

The Jews that move to Israel, especially the liberal ones, you're saying all of them condone settlements? How about people who move to the States? do they all condone the US invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan?

I mean if we go by this logic, most people in the world either condone human rights violations, wars, torture or a whole host of terrible things.

 

[Seven]

Ya, we agree on that. I apply the same logic btw to extremists who choose to go and live in western countries. I mean if you really believe that the people you live amongst are good for nothing infidels, then just don't go and live there. Those who believe the laws in Qatar are stupid and don't see themselves being able to tolerate them, should just not go and live in Qatar. I'm sure that in most of those cases, these are people who actually had a choice on where to live.
As for the climate, I won't pretend I love it, but believe me, people don't really have to experience it that often, as everywhere you go is air conditioned. Then for 3-4 months a year, the weather is actually amazing. Serious question though, how is it different than countries who rarely get any sunshine and are cold for most of the year. You may be used to that, but desert people such as myself would struggle to live in that kind of weather

I've never been there, but I guess it's similar to what you get in Las Vegas. You can't really be outdoors much in the summer and you just spend most of your time in airconditioned buildings.

Belgium's not that cold btw. It's pretty mild most of the year. In terms of climate though I'd definitely go for places like Italy or Portugal.

That's my point exactly.

Some people wouldn't go there because it's unsafe, some wouldn't because wages are not high enough, and some wouldn't because they don't approve the policies of the state of Israel (the major policies, of course) or even think it has no right to exist. People who do move to Israel either approve the policies or at least don't care. If we apply the same logic to Qatar, we can say that people who move there in a way condone the human right violations and the theocratic dictatorship.

You know what? For the first time I can somewhat understand your point. But it's still a fine line. If you move to the States for example, does that mean you approve of everything the States do globally? Of course not..

 

[Juliano13]

You can say a lot about Qatar, but do you really believe it's a theocracy? Saudi Arabia maybe, but Qatar has alcohol all over the place, beaches with bikini clad women and all that, it certainly isn't the Saudi Arabia you imagine

Yes, I do. Saudi Arabia might be worse, but that doesn't mean Qatar is not a theocracy. Btw, there are expats in Riyadh, too, so the same logic applies. It's just that Saudi Arabia has lower GDP per capita.

 

[Fred]

I've never been there, but I guess it's similar to what you get in Las Vegas. You can't really be outdoors much in the summer and you just spend most of your time in airconditioned buildings.

Belgium's not that cold btw. It's pretty mild most of the year. In terms of climate though I'd definitely go for places like Italy or Portugal.



You know what? For the first time I can somewhat understand your point. But it's still a fine line. If you move to the States for example, does that mean you approve of everything the States do globally? Of course not..

I think what you call mild is probably not mild at all for someone like me, but ok

Ya, the summers here are unbearable, it is almost impossible to have any kind of outdoor activity most of the time(Please don't bring up the World Cup here).

Mediterranean countries like Italy, Portugal and Spain have the perfect weather IMO.

As for the bolded part: Really? That is quite a leap to make IMO, it really would render most people monsters who condone all kinds of shitty things.

 

[Seven]

Yes, I do. Saudi Arabia might be worse, but that doesn't mean Qatar is not a theocracy. Btw, there are expats in Riyadh, too, so the same logic applies. It's just that Saudi Arabia has lower GDP per capita.

You have to be more careful when using big words. Yesterday you didn't know what obsolete meant, now you're talking about theocracies..

 

[Fred]

Yes, I do. Saudi Arabia might be worse, but that doesn't mean Qatar is not a theocracy. Btw, there are expats in Riyadh, too, so the same logic applies. It's just that Saudi Arabia has lower GDP per capita.

Other than family law(I think thats what they call it in English?) I really don't think the source of most laws have got to do with religion at all. I'd really like to know why you would call Qatar a theocracy? IMO you'd be using the term very loosely.

 

[Juliano13]

I've never been there, but I guess it's similar to what you get in Las Vegas. You can't really be outdoors much in the summer and you just spend most of your time in airconditioned buildings.

Belgium's not that cold btw. It's pretty mild most of the year. In terms of climate though I'd definitely go for places like Italy or Portugal.



You know what? For the first time I can somewhat understand your point. But it's still a fine line. If you move to the States for example, does that mean you approve of everything the States do globally? Of course not..

No, but it's a totally different situation (that's why I said major policies). There are some defining issues for both Qatar and Israel. For Israel it's the right to exist and the Palestinian question. In Qatar it's the fact that it's a theocratic dictatorship.

What is the equivalent in America? It's not the Iraq War. USA is a democracy, governments change and policy changes. The only thing that you could say is that people who go to America condone democracy.

Another example: There were many differences in terms of policies between the South and the North before the Civil War, but clearly the defining issue was slavery.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Everyone, Turkey, now!