Summer Mercato Thread 2019-20 (35 Viewers)

[Gigiventus]

These are some absurd posts right here. Let see.

1) Conte, Pep and Sarri don't innovate? The back 3 re-surging all over football, tiki-taka, and now Sarrismo.

2) Mertens at Napoli was literally the definiton of a false 9, the left winger was Insigne, not Mertens. Also yes, Hazard did play false 9, I think you simply don't know what a false 9 is. You keep using false 9/AM as if it is interchangeable, it's not. Sarri has his false 9 (Mertens) score an huge 34 goal season.

3) How was there never an AM under Sarri? It was with him that Saponara got hyped as the next big trequartista. His Empoli exclusively played 4-3-1-2 and rotated Verdi, Zielinski and Saponara as the AM at various times. It worked so well that they all went on to bigger clubs. Sarri has stated this summer the possibility of using an AM at Juve.

Liking or disliking styles is an opinion, but these things are just clearly not true.

 

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[pavelnel]

IMHO schemes and tactics should be on second or third place when assembling a team. In first place it should be the players - keep the best, sell only the bad and average and buy better. I think in the curent Juve at least 50-60% of the players are trash or mediocre.
If I make the selection these will be my starters:
Ronaldo, Dybala, Chiellini, De Licht. That is it.
Bench: Costa, Berna, Pjanic, Buffon, Szczesny, Sandro, Rabiot, Higuain and Cancelo ( if he was staying).
Question marks: Ramsey, Demiral. They are even possible starters.
All the rest I would sell in a heartbeat or even give them for free.

 

[Juventinho]

These are some absurd posts right here. Let see.

1) Conte, Pep and Sarri don't innovate? The back 3 re-surging all over football, tiki-taka, and now Sarrismo.

Depends on what you mean by innovate - reviving a dead type of football / even inventing a new one doesn't address the fact that as coaches they have just 1 system / just 1 style and often just 1 formation that requires specific players and that it wouldn't work when their requirements of players are not met - because simply they can't change it.

That's why Sarri couldn't make it at Chelsea - a club that runs the mercato and doesn't give a fuck about the coach or at least that's what they did with him.

That's why Pep would never join a normal club where he won't have all the players he needs.

2) Mertens at Napoli was literally the definiton of a false 9, the left winger was Insigne, not Mertens. Also yes, Hazard did play false 9, I think you simply don't know what a false 9 is. You keep using false 9/AM as if it is interchangeable, it's not. Sarri has his false 9 (Mertens) score an huge 34 goal season.

Mertens conversion to a CF/ST was a makeshift solution due to Higuain departure - most of his goals were from inside the box - he didn't drop deep and his operational zone was the box - he wasn't a false 9 or at least a conventional one.

Before that Mertens was a winger / inside forward.

Hazard played at least 90% of the games as a pure winger under Sarri - in fact when Sarri tried to slot him in the middle he hated it / he actually has an interview where he talks about not being able to be converted to play like Mertens who prefers the box and is more of a striker than him, that was Chelsea who imposed certain players on Sarri and didn't accommodate his system.

Mind you that Sarri at Chelsea still went out seeking Higuain as a solution for his dilemma - now he is here and he obviously has carte blanche to create his ultimate team why the fuck do you expect him to put up with another makeshift solution? I know it's retarded but that's the way it is with him.

3) How was there never an AM under Sarri? It was with him that Saponara got hyped as the next big trequartista. His Empoli exclusively played 4-3-1-2 and rotated Verdi, Zielinski and Saponara as the AM at various times. It worked so well that they all went on to bigger clubs. Sarri has stated this summer the possibility of using an AM at Juve.

Liking or disliking styles is an opinion, but these things are just clearly not true.

Conte wasn't born playing 3-5-2 either - Sarri at Napoli used that 4-3-3 / at Chelsea same and that's the bulk of his career and this is what he is gearing our squad towards.


I didn't come to start a debate - I am just explaining why we're doing what we're doing and how we will line up next season.



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[Gigiventus]

They innovate, worldwide effects on football, but you don't count it. You say innovate within their own teams and only use 1 system. Again this is not true.

We all saw Conte start with a 4-4-2 at Juve and play out the season with a 4-3-3. Then in his second season settle with a 3-5-2. The Conte at Chelsea played 3-4-3. Sarri became famous for his 4-3-1-2, took it to Napoli as well and played 4-3-1-2, then he switched to 4-3-3 because it was better for the team. Pep changes formations and roles every other game, most times you read a teamsheet from a Pep team and you don't even know what that is going to look like on the field because of the unusual player roles.

Somehow all of this doesn't count.

"Sarri couldn't make it at Chelsea" yet won EL, got to the cup final in penalties, and got CL spots.

Again, Mertens was a false 9. The 60 kg guy that doesn't reach 1.70m dropped back, center and sides to make it all work.

You are just forcing the idea you had on the facts, instead of the other way around. They innovate, they change systems, in the case of Sarri, he achieved fame using an AM and a false 9 on separate occasions, but you dismiss it because...? To say there has never been an AM or a false 9 in Sarri's systems is just plain wrong.

 

[Juventinho]

Identity doesn't matter
Style doesn't matter

What matters is winning and creating a system that suit whatever you have, a system that plays on the strength of your existing squad, a system that can get the best out of your existing players.

Yes this approach is less consistent and most likely to suffer in league competitions but the most important competition and dare I say the only relevant one in our case isn't a league, it's a cup.

That is your Zidane and your Lippi and the others I listed and it is not a coincidence these are the bunch who won much more cups than the rigid system bunch.

Their teams don't have identity like Real Madrid that won the 3 back to back or Lippi's Italy, they are not hipsters and they don't play sophisticated gourmet football - no tiki takas or sarrismos it's just a matter of putting their players in their best roles and plugging the holes as they go - not attractive but definitely much more creative and effective when it comes to cups.

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[Mark]

@Mark Will we get Chiesa?

Poslano sa mog SM-J530F koristeći Tapatalk

one day.

 

[Juventinho]

They innovate, worldwide effects on football, but you don't count it. You say innovate within their own teams and only use 1 system. Again this is not true.

We all saw Conte start with a 4-4-2 at Juve and play out the season with a 4-3-3. Then in his second season settle with a 3-5-2. The Conte at Chelsea played 3-4-3. Sarri became famous for his 4-3-1-2, took it to Napoli as well and played 4-3-1-2, then he switched to 4-3-3 because it was better for the team. Pep changes formations and roles every other game, most times you read a teamsheet from a Pep team and you don't even know what that is going to look like on the field because of the unusual player roles.

Somehow all of this doesn't count.

I intentionally said "most often use the same formation" putting more emphasis on the so called identity and style of football.

I told you Conte wasn't born with his 352 but when he played it he stuck with it the whole season - same at Chelsea - his brand of football though is the same anywhere he goes and he is very limited when it comes to changes during the game or over a short period of time to overcome or surprise an opponent.

Pep uses a lot of formations with City that is true but he can only play possession football thus dictating a specific type of players - he is not the coach to go and coach Porto or Leiscter and pulls an upset - the stars have to align and they are usually very expensive. 1 billion euros and no Champions League??? No but no thanks.

As for Sarri it was always his 433 the dominant - discounting few exceptions - 2 clubs 4 seasons and his 433 didn't change.

"Sarri couldn't make it at Chelsea" yet won EL, got to the cup final in penalties, and got CL spots.

Again, Mertens was a false 9. The 60 kg guy that doesn't reach 1.70m dropped back, center and sides to make it all work.

You are just forcing the idea you had on the facts, instead of the other way around. They innovate, they change systems, in the case of Sarri, he achieved fame using an AM and a false 9 on separate occasions, but you dismiss it because...? To say there has never been an AM or a false 9 in Sarri's systems is just plain wrong.

Won the EL? Wow - I think that is not more relevant than the community shield.

Again there are stats and the majority was Mertens scoring from inside the box.

Dybala and Mertens have nothing in common except being short - Dybala doesn't play well inside the box and he isn't fast or flexible to play on the wings like Mertens yet Dybala has better vision / long shooting / movement around the box.



It is not hard - identity and style come at the cost of flexibility and pragmatism - as a club desperate for a UCL title pragmatism definitely would work better for us.

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[Ronn]

Is it going to be mercato chiuso after Dybala sale?

 

[italiacalcio10]

Same exact issue!

James isn't great on the right - Costa or Berna are way better!!!

James like Eriksen and Dybala is one dimensional - Sarri won't / doesn't use an AM or False 9.

He is not a flexible coach, he shares that with Pep and Conte which is exactly why I hate this school of coaches. They come at a great cost:

1. They can only function when they have the exact players they need.

2. They will probably end up throwing away those who don't fit - If pep had de gea he would have still sold him for a GK who plays with his feet and it is fucking retarded imo.

The only thing which I do not understand is picking Lukaku as the perfect ST - I mean even fucking Icardi is a better option despite Wanda and all his problems.

We could go big for someone like Auba - but then again this is the same coach who had a fetish for Higuain...

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Revert to 4-3-1-2, and then James or Eriksen work. Sarri has shown ability to adapt both in Napoli and Chelsea - unfortunately the Napoli adaptation was better
At Napoli he began with Insigne as a trequartista and that didn’t work so he adjusted to 4-3–3. Then the next year when Milik got hurt he brought Mertens into a central role. But Mertens wasn’t a false 9. He played as a technical central forward. Ronaldo may be able to play that role. The false 9 requires creativity and Mertens was never creative. The creativity came from the left side in Insigne.

He also adapted at Chelsea and Unfortunately I think we’re in a similar situation as Chelsea except Ronaldo might work as a CF. Hazard was best on the left and contributed 0 to defense. Insigne was different because he could defend. I believe Sarri is taking a similar approach as W/ Ronaldo as he did with Chelsea where the defensive responsibility will be on the other 10 and CR7 will be given complete freedom.


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[juve123]

Is it going to be mercato chiuso after Dybala sale?

Icardi/Lukaku/Eriksen/Pogba

 

[s4tch]

Is it going to be mercato chiuso after Dybala sale?

we have too many players. pjaca, rugani, khedira, one of mandzu/higgy, probably pellegrini (loan) have to be offloaded. also, a striker (icardi) is expected.

gonna be a long and exhausting august.

 

[juve123]

Rugani to Arsenal could be done today: loan + 30mln€ obligation to buy option.Juve wanted intially 40 million euros but Arsenal refused [Tuttosport]

 

[italiacalcio10]

Oh and we are screwed even more if Pjanic doesn't perform - that central Regista is essential for his stupid 433 - now we are putting all our eggs in this formation's basket so we won't have the flexibility to tinker around once mercato is done!

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Pjanic as regista is actually by biggest worry. My fear is by Christmas Bentancur will be there and we will be selling for Pjanic for 50M at Christmas


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[Xperd]

Szczesny
De Sciglio-Bonucci-Chiellini-Sandro
Pjanić
Ramsey--Rabiot
Berna-Icardi-Ronaldo​

Solid CL R16/QF team

If we get a lucky draw, maybe semis

 

[Juventinho]

Szczesny
De Sciglio-Bonucci-Chiellini-Sandro
Pjanić
Ramsey--Rabiot
Berna-Icardi-Ronaldo​

Solid CL R16/QF team

If we get a lucky draw, maybe semis

You won't play Ramsey and Rabiot together because that would be suicide - one of can or Matuidi will start with Pjanic and then one of the two.

But yeah great R16 team

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[JuveMkd]

You won't play Ramsey and Rabiot together because that would be suicide - one of can or Matuidi will start with Pjanic and then one of the two.

But yeah great R16 team

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And why not Rabiot is great defensively, and Ramsey can cover a lot of ground and track back.

 

[dolph]

Szczesny
De Sciglio-Bonucci-Chiellini-Sandro
Pjanić
Ramsey--Rabiot
Berna-Icardi-Ronaldo​

Solid CL R16/QF team

If we get a lucky draw, maybe semis

Cuadrado, Costa and Higuain to replace MDS, Berna and Icardi IMO, which is a very strong team.

I dont see any teams in the world that are significantly stronger than the rest, like Real, Barca or Bayern a few years back. IMO there would be City, Liverpool, Bayern, Real, Atl, Barca, PSG and us who would all be candidates to win the UCL. Who wins it will be dependend on form, injuries, draw, luck etc. So I would say anything between R16 and winner of the competition is possible.

 

[athas]

You won't play Ramsey and Rabiot together because that would be suicide - one of can or Matuidi will start with Pjanic and then one of the two.

But yeah great R16 team

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Rabiot may be not as dynamic as Matuidi, but he is strong like a bull and can defend well.

 

[edgardavids2608]

Identity doesn't matter
Style doesn't matter

What matters is winning and creating a system that suit whatever you have, a system that plays on the strength of your existing squad, a system that can get the best out of your existing players.

Yes this approach is less consistent and most likely to suffer in league competitions but the most important competition and dare I say the only relevant one in our case isn't a league, it's a cup.

That is your Zidane and your Lippi and the others I listed and it is not a coincidence these are the bunch who won much more cups than the rigid system bunch.

Their teams don't have identity like Real Madrid that won the 3 back to back or Lippi's Italy, they are not hipsters and they don't play sophisticated gourmet football - no tiki takas or sarrismos it's just a matter of putting their players in their best roles and plugging the holes as they go - not attractive but definitely much more creative and effective when it comes to cups.

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That can be true sometimes but the big thing is consistency. If you have a distinct style you can build for that and be very good at that system long term. Its the reason ajax did well this year and Barca has done well in the last decade. Cruyff was all about building a club system and identity. Even Juve have a club Identity of strong defense first traditionally. But I will say I dont think the Pep system of trying to force that system every 3 years on a different club will work well.

 

[Wittl]

Lol, it seems we're signing this 20y old swiss for 2m. We will loan him out to Empoli.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/nedim-bajrami/profil/spieler/390177