[South America] 2010 World Cup qualifying thread (16 Viewers)

[Fred]

But if Egypt trash em? They can be out because of it, right?

Yes they can. Historically Egypt does not do well against Algeria though. I believe Egypt's only chance is if Algeria lose points against one of the two African teams while Egypt win's the rest of their matches. If it came down to goal difference Egypt can kiss the WC goodbye, because they aren't beating this Algerian team with a big goal margin.

Algeria has a good generation of players, with a lot of them playing in the top leagues. This generation is one of the best Algerian generations in a while. Most of the players are in their peak too.

I think you guys would be familiar with some of Algeria's big names like Ghezzal, Ziani, Meghni and Belhadj. Some of you might even be familiar with Bougherra, Saifi, Djebbour and new Portsmouth signing Hassan Yebda.

 

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[Dostoevsky]

Yes they can. Historically Egypt does not do well against Algeria though. I believe Egypt's only chance is if Algeria lose points against one of the two African teams while Egypt win's the rest of their matches. If it came down to goal difference Egypt can kiss the WC goodbye, because they aren't beating this Algerian team with a big goal margin.

Algeria has a good generation of players, with a lot of them playing in the top leagues. This generation is one of the best Algerian generations in a while. Most of the players are in their peak too.

I think you guys would be familiar with some of Algeria's big names like Ghezzal, Ziani, Meghni and Belhadj. Some of you might even be familiar with Bougherra, Saifi, Djebbour and new Portsmouth signing Hassan Yebda.

Thanks, I just wanted to be sure.

Now, when it comes to players playing in top clubs I can't say it can be good because if it is I expect Serbia to do very good.

Stojković - Sporting
Ivanovic - Chelsea
Luković - Udinese
Kolarov - Lazio
Vidic - Manchester
Subotić - Dortmund
Tošić - Werder
Stanković - Inter
Tošić - Manchester
Kačar - Hertha
Kuzmanović- Stuttgart
Sulejmani - Ajax
Žigić - Valencia
Pantelić - Ajax

So far we pretty much failed and we always had a good team maybe we finally got a good coach...it's all maybe.
I'm not saying Algeria is going to fail or something, just pointing out a few things.

 

[Elgerino]

I like Serbia they are pretty solid

 

[Dostoevsky]

I like Serbia they are pretty solid

We are. As they said we got the hardest group, the group of death and we are first so far. It can look very different after the last 2 matches, though.

But we always had good players that couldn't do much. This squad looks very good IMO but I can't really expect anything because of our history.

 

[Dostoevsky]

I'll take that post to other thread to open a discussion and don't go OT.

 

[Ahmed]

were Argentina really that bad? and Luis Fabiano, always hated him, but damn what a beautiful finish on the 3rd goal...brilliant technique...Meeelan

 

[Fred]

Thanks, I just wanted to be sure.

Now, when it comes to players playing in top clubs I can't say it can be good because if it is I expect Serbia to do very good.

Stojković - Sporting
Ivanovic - Chelsea
Luković - Udinese
Kolarov - Lazio
Vidic - Manchester
Subotić - Dortmund
Tošić - Werder
Stanković - Inter
Tošić - Manchester
Kačar - Hertha
Kuzmanović- Stuttgart
Sulejmani - Ajax
Žigić - Valencia
Pantelić - Ajax

So far we pretty much failed and we always had a good team maybe we finally got a good coach...it's all maybe.
I'm not saying Algeria is going to fail or something, just pointing out a few things.

But then again its easier for Serbs to prove themselves and play for top clubs in Europe. They are located in Europe afterall, and their clubs face top European clubs all the time, so they are more likely to get chances in top European clubs.

I don't think Algeria is as good a team as Serbia, Serbia is a pretty solid team. But i think in terms of pure talent, Algerian players are more talented, but Serbian players are talented and have very good physical abilities which Algerians lack. I think that gives the Serbians the edge of their Algerian counterparts.

 

[Dostoevsky]

I know we're in Europe but I think it's pretty solid considering how our league bad is.

I never really wanted to compare it to Algeria, just to show it but nevermind at least I got more to read. Thanks for the reply, Fred.

 

[Fred]

Neither did i mean to compare the two, i acknowledge that Serbia is overall the better team with better players.

And its always a pleasure discussing with you Dusan

 

[Alen]

Neither did i mean to compare the two, i acknowledge that Serbia is overall the better team with better players.

And its always a pleasure discussing with you Dusan

What do you think about Antar Yahia, Nadir Belhadj, Yazid Mansouri, Karim Ziani, Hameur Bouazza, Mourad Meghni, Abdelkader Ghezzal, Kamel Ghilas, Rafik Djebbour, Karim Matmour and Madjid Bougherra playing for Algeria?

These guys are Algeria's best players but none of them was born in Algeria, none of them lived in Algeria and none of them ever played football in Algeria. They all had the perfect conditions to play in France and be seen by the top european clubs.

Is it ok for them to play for Algeria or it kills the purpose of NT football?

 

[Fred]

What do you think about Antar Yahia, Nadir Belhadj, Yazid Mansouri, Karim Ziani, Hameur Bouazza, Mourad Meghni, Abdelkader Ghezzal, Kamel Ghilas, Rafik Djebbour, Karim Matmour and Madjid Bougherra playing for Algeria?

These guys are Algeria's best players but none of them was born in Algeria, none of them lived in Algeria and none of them ever played football in Algeria. They all had the perfect conditions to play in France and be seen by the top european clubs.

Is it ok for them to play for Algeria or it kills the purpose of NT football?

These guys are all Algerian players. I never lived in Libya at all, i was born there and then moved to Britain when i was a few months old. Yet i consider myself a 100% Libyan and would always play for the Libyan NT if i were a footballer.

If you understood my posts about NT football properly you would not have said this. Algeria are nothing like Qatar, Qatar change rules to accomodate footballers, the Brazilians playing for them, would never have got Qatari nationality if they were not good footballers. Double standards.

I'm not sure, but i think its the same with Eduardo for Croatia and Aurelio for Turkey.

 

[Alen]

These guys are all Algerian players. I never lived in Libya at all, i was born there and then moved to Britain when i was a few months old. Yet i consider myself a 100% Libyan and would always play for the Libyan NT if i were a footballer.

If you understood my posts about NT football properly you would not have said this. Algeria are nothing like Qatar, Qatar change rules to accomodate footballers, the Brazilians playing for them, would never have got Qatari nationality if they were not good footballers. Double standards.

I'm not sure, but i think its the same with Eduardo for Croatia and Aurelio for Turkey.

Sorry, but it's complete BS.

Eduardo came to Croatia when he was 16 and he lived here for 8 years before he left for England. He speaks the language perfectly, he has hundreds of friends here. He even feels Croat.

Simunic was born and raised in Australia, he never lived in Croatia or played football in Croatia. He lived in Australia for 19 years, started playing football there, and then moved to Germany where he's playing for the last 12 years.

So just because his parents were Croat Simunic has more right to play for Croatia than Eduardo?

 

[Fred]

Does Croatia give the nationality to people who have lived there for 8 years? Or did they give it to Edu because he was a good footballer?

Thats where it all boils down.

Oh and by your logic I'm not a Libyan. I will have you know that i never lived in Libya my whole life.

 

[Alen]

Does Croatia give the nationality to people who have lived there for 8 years? Or did they give it to Edu because he was a good footballer?

Thats where it all boils down.

Oh and by your logic I'm not a Libyan. I will have you know that i never lived in Libya my whole life.

Look at it this way....

Why do you think the majority of those Algerian players i mentioned play for Algeria and not for France?
Because they feel Algerian or because they could never make it to the French NT?
Was Ghezzal ever gonna try to get Algerian passport and was Algeria going to give it to him so expressly if he wasn't a footballer who wasn't good enough to play for France?

The cases of Zinedine Zidane and Karim Benzema can answer this question.

 

[Fred]

Yes you are right but that is beside the point, as we can never really know how they really do feel. You don't know if Ghezzal was going to play for France if they ever gave him a chance or not, you can only guess(Even though i agree with your guess, it is the case with most Moroccan\Algerian\Tunisian players).

What i am trying to say is, there is no universal standard we can use to determine these kind of things. So all we should do is make sure there is no double standards.

Like in my favorite example, Qatar. They do not give nationalities to anybody, but if you're a good enough footballer, you probably can and will get the Qatari nationality. Stop these double standards and we'll solve 60% of these problems.

 

[Fred]

Btw, I'm not sure if you know this Alen, but Zidane wanted to represent Algeria but was rejected by the coaching staff of the Algerian NT at the time, they claimed he was too slow(though there are some rumors that say that he was rejected because he was a Berber)

 

[Alen]

Yes you are right but that is beside the point, as we can never really know how they really do feel. You don't know if Ghezzal was going to play for France if they ever gave him a chance or not, you can only guess(Even though i agree with your guess, it is the case with most Moroccan\Algerian\Tunisian players).

What i am trying to say is, there is no universal standard we can use to determine these kind of things. So all we should do is make sure there is no double standards.

Like in my favorite example, Qatar. They do not give nationalities to anybody, but if you're a good enough footballer, you probably can and will get the Qatari nationality. Stop these double standards and we'll solve 60% of these problems.

But for those countries like Qatar that might be the way to improve your football. The foreigners they'll "buy" for the NT won't be good enough to give them some remarkable success at the WC, but they'll probably be good enough to make some good results in Asia and that way make more local people interested in the game, more kids to play it, even more money than now to be invested in football and sometime in the future, they might have footballers of their own who can make good results.

But is it worst than what's happening in club football where the South Americans suddenly discover Italian/Spanish/German ancestry and get their EU passports, which makes it easier for them to play for Juve, Real, Arsenal etc?

In both cases these players get the easy way towards the passport due to being footballers and in the end people can talk as much as they want, but having the passport means that you can play for that country's NT.

If you ban it in the NT football you'll also have to ban expressly giving EU passports in club football.

 

[Fred]

But you aren't making any double standards when you give EU passports to players like Maxwell, Diego etc. They got their passports within the boundaries of the law.

Qatar on the other hand...

 

[Alen]

Btw, I'm not sure if you know this Alen, but Zidane wanted to represent Algeria but was rejected by the coaching staff of the Algerian NT at the time, they claimed he was too slow(though there are some rumors that say that he was rejected because he was a Berber)

Not saying that i don't trust this (i read about it too), but i'm a bit sceptical when i hear these "legends" surrounding legendary people.
I also read that Zlatan wanted to play for Croatia and he was rejected (the more famous version is that he was supposed to play for Bosnia but he was rejected or something) and i read something similar about at least 10 more sportsmen.

I have a feeling that most of these are nothing more but urban legends. ( of course, i'm not claiming that Zidane's case is an urban legend and isn't what really happened).

 

[Alen]

But you aren't making any double standards when you give EU passports to players like Maxwell, Diego etc. They got their passports within the boundaries of the law.

You do actually. I think that if some of Diego's relatives claimed to have Italian ancestry and asked for an Italian passport, they weren't going to get it.
The state decides to trust Diego, but not Diego's brother/sister.