Should Zambrotta be fined/suspended for admitting to diving? (1 Viewer)

[JuveCampione]

absolutely not... punish one player and do nothing to another player for the same things.

leave Zambro alone. but even if he does get punished, we have Pessotto as a backup

 

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[mate]

I think that a rule vs dives has to be introducted. They have to be suspended if booked with the TV, but now there isn't any rules yet and Zambro did what unfortunately happens every sunday. That's why is no sense to suspend him... Or everybody or nobody, it will be unfair to suspend just him just cause he admitted. Admitting it means re realized he did something wrong... while players who deny it even vs the evidence are so ridicolous...

 

[Ivy]

oh..... i'm all giddy now after all these talks ....... but here is just what i think.

A fine or a suspension?

Well i really don't care much for a fine....... and i don't think a rich guy like Zambro would either. Simply giving a fine would not encourgae a player to not dive/cheat in the future. If anything, he should be banned for a number of matches ....i dunno..... between 1 to 3 matches...... at least then, it will be a more effective deterrent to diving. Both the player and the club will loose out here. Irriplaceble loosing out. Not like a fine which can be too easily recuperated. And another point. A suspension/ban will mean the same for all clubs. A more equal way of punishment. A fine on the other had will not affect a club like Juve much at all....... but it may mean more to a less wealthy club.



What the diff if he admitted to diving or not? and what are the consequences if a player does admit vs a player who would always keep mum?

If you don't punish a person who admits to a mistake. There will be no incentive for him not to comit mistake again. He will think that if i admit to my fault, i will go free and a bunch of honest divers is not what we want. So yes, definaetly even if Zambro has admited to diving, he should be penalised in some way.

Also as some of you have said. wether he admits to this fault or not does not make the situation for the 'victim' club any better (sori for my simplified way of saying things, i'm no lawyer :frown: )

Even if Zambro gets a suspension/fine....... Bologna will still suffer that loss because of him. And wether he admits to it or not does not make the situation any better for Bologna. To them his 'honesty' would mean nothing.

The question is how to penalise?

I agree that players who admit to mistakes should have a different punishment to those who deny it. But here i am lost. i don't know what it could be. All i can say is that the aim is to stop such things like diving. All players who are in the wrong wether or not they decide to admit it, should be punished.



As for Zambro, maybe he is admiting to this because he values honesty. Or maybe he did it because he knows that it won't make a difference even if he does. Some people will tell of what they have gotten away with.

 

[Zizou]

Oh please, let's all stop being moralists. This is not a perfect world and nothing will change the way it is. Zambrotta dived and admitted. Full Stop. Its over there. The rest is bullshit; no player has to be fined (at most it will be the club not the player).

 

[vitoria_Ally]

++ [ originally posted by Zizou ] ++
Oh please, let's all stop being moralists. This is not a perfect world and nothing will change the way it is.

With such your attitude nothing will be changed for sure.
With mine: This is not a perfect world, but we can try to make it better - it will be better.

Zambrotta dived and admitted. Full Stop. Its over there.

Zambrotta dived and admitted and should be punished. Full stop. And now it's over, in this place.

 

[vitoria_Ally]

++ [ originally posted by Zizou ] ++
Theoretically you cannot change the rules during the course of a season; they did it once and it was quite unethical so I doubt they would do it again.

Actually I was thinking about some general change, considering what's going on on pitches, not only looking at one event.
Some unproper behaviours should be punished, not to change match results etc, but to show, that we dont let footballers play in dirty way:
no matter if referees noticed sth or not, they should take consequences of their behaviour.

About the cheating part, no one is saying it's good but let's take a recent example. Simone Inzaghi won a penalty last Wednesday against Besiktas and it was a clear dive, yet no one said anything, they just commented that he dived but it stopped there. So why should Zambrotta's story keep on going on?

All cheaters should be punished. So Inzaghi too, and too bad that there is no such possibility.

Zambrotta is not a diver, he's a very fair play player who rarely does dirty deeds. So we punish a player who rarely does these things and not punish players such as the Inzaghi brothers cos we got used to their diving?

I have to agree with you here: he is fair play player.

About all the rest you said: I would have to repeat myself, above is everything what I think about that.

 

[Zizou]

Punishing Zambrotta is not the answer. In Italy (and not only), children are taught to dive from when they are 8 years old in their nurseries.

I can't believe someone's honesty can cause such a stir. So from now on I hope all Juve players will keep faking penalties and say they did not dive so there won't be anymore problems.

 

[vitoria_Ally]

++ [ originally posted by Zizou ] ++
Punishing Zambrotta is not the answer. In Italy (and not only), children are taught to dive from when they are 8 years old in their nurseries.

So? Are you ok with that? cause I'm not.

I can't believe someone's honesty can cause such a stir. So from now on I hope all Juve players will keep faking penalties and say they did not dive so there won't be anymore problems.

Jeez man, so you prefer to have club of cheaters?
With reputation like Inzaghi brothers?

That would be honesty, if he had admitted that during the match.

 

[JuveCampione]

sometimes I come here and this place doesn't look like a Juve forum

what is wrong with you people? you want Juve and Zambro to get punished???

so what if he dived??? like it's the first time you see a dive

it's everybody or nobody, like mate said. you can do nothing about it right now, in the middle of the season. get over it! start thinking about the next game

 

[Zizou]

Yeah well said Davids. Honesty does not always go hand in hand with wins. An example was Maradona's hand of God. So what if he did that? He is still the best player to have walked on earth no matter what.

 

[vitoria_Ally]

++ [ originally posted by Edgar Davids ] ++
sometimes I come here and this place doesn't look like a Juve forum

what is wrong with you people? you want Juve and Zambro to get punished???

Yes.
Like every other player/club who cheats.

it's everybody or nobody, like mate said. you can do nothing about it right now, in the middle of the season

I agree with everybody or nobody, and I cant do anything about that.
But that doesnt mean, that I am cant express my opinion about the whole case.

btw: I've repeated my arguments many times and so have you, I think we will not agree on this.

 

[mikhail]

I personally feel that diving incidents should be looked at by a video panel, and that appropriate suspensions should be handed out.

Diving is cheating, just like clothes-lining someone on the pitch is cheating. If guys like Inzagi, who spends more time lying down than an invalid, were punished for every incident, it would curtail the habit. Well,maybe not Inzagai's, but who'd pay for a striker who misses ten or twelve matches a year because of suspensions.

I would also suggest that a goal from a penalty won by a dive should be appealable. If someone dived to win a penalty which changed the course of the match, say from 1-1 to 2-1, then the match should go down as a 1-1 draw.

My suggestions would

• Remove the benefits of diving.
• Punish those who dive anyway.

Can anyone tell me why that would be a bad thing? And don't give me that shite about how it's engrained in Italian football - I'm suggesting you take a belt sander to that.

 

[JuveCampione]

I think it's bad because it's too harsh.. and another thing:
there are many things that can change the course of the match, a lot of small mistakes. and almost every mistake is debatable.

 

[Ivy]

++ [ originally posted by Edgar Davids ] ++
sometimes I come here and this place doesn't look like a Juve forum

what is wrong with you people? you want Juve and Zambro to get punished???

I'm a Juve fan yes and i will surpport them through their ups and downs, but i will not be a fan that surpports them through right and wrong.

You don't wish Zambro/Juve to be punished for this dive.

Why are there so many Juve fans that complain that something should be done against Totti's diving?

No, i DON'T wish for Zambro/Juve to suffer in any way. But then i will not say that he shouldn't be punished here but then go back on myself and say that another player/club should be punished if he/they were to comit a similar foul against us.

so what if he dived??? like it's the first time you see a dive

it's everybody or nobody, like mate said. you can do nothing about it right now, in the middle of the season. get over it! start thinking about the next game

What mate said is right for this moment. That is how things stand and he is right. What we/i am saying is what we/i wish for the future or what i think it should be. It's just speculation. This happens in all threads. A person starts with the simplest of points and people give comments/opinions. That's all that they are, opinions..... no right and no wrong..... just a thought. Why do some want to force a definate right or wrong out of this?

 

[vitoria_Ally]

++ [ originally posted by mikhail ] ++
I personally feel that diving incidents should be looked at by a video panel, and that appropriate suspensions should be handed out.

Diving is cheating, just like clothes-lining someone on the pitch is cheating. If guys like Inzagi, who spends more time lying down than an invalid, were punished for every incident, it would curtail the habit. Well,maybe not Inzagai's, but who'd pay for a striker who misses ten or twelve matches a year because of suspensions.

My point exactly.

++ [ originally posted by Edgar Davids ] ++
I think it's bad because it's too harsh.. and another thing:
there are many things that can change the course of the match, a lot of small mistakes. and almost every mistake is debatable.

But we are talking about cheating, only about this, not some other mistakes, which can change the course of the match.

 

[mikhail]

++ [ originally posted by Edgar Davids ] ++
I think it's bad because it's too harsh.. and another thing:
there are many things that can change the course of the match, a lot of small mistakes. and almost every mistake is debatable.

Why is it harsh? Watch video clips of English football thirty years ago, and you'll see an organised fight. Violence has been largely eliminated by stricter controls, and if a Giles or a Bremner played today, he'd be sent off every match. Why not get rid of diving the same way? It'sjust a matter of making the advantages of cheating so small compaired to the potential cost that it isn't worth doing.

It would also improve the quality of football we watch. Imagine the really technically gifted players like Figo, Totti or Duff were forced to stay up under fair challenges - you'd see them beating two of three players at a time because they have to, instead of half-beating one and then falling over.

 

[vitoria_Ally]

++ [ originally posted by Sunshine ] ++

Why are there so many Juve fans that complain that something should be done against Totti's diving?

No, i DON'T wish for Zambro/Juve to suffer in any way. But then i will not say that he shouldn't be punished here but then go back on myself and say that another player/club should be punished if he/they were to comit a similar foul against us.

I would love to see your reaction guys, if Totti admitted diving in some game. Who of you would say: cool guy, he shouldnt be punished, cause he admitted diving?
And what would be, if he admitted cheating in match against Juve, if Juve had lost cause of his dive? :dazed:
I can imagine, how many swearwords would be said then.

The same rules are for all clubs/players, not matter where they are from.

 

[mikhail]

Good post, Vit.

Someone once said that referees have a hard time because fans don't want the rules enforced fairly, but rather they want them enforced in their teams favour.

 

[Ivy]

Thanks Vit. I felt i had my head on the chopping block after posting that

 

[Ivy]

++ [ originally posted by mikhail ] ++


Why is it harsh? Watch video clips of English football thirty years ago, and you'll see an organised fight. Violence has been largely eliminated by stricter controls, and if a Giles or a Bremner played today, he'd be sent off every match. Why not get rid of diving the same way? It'sjust a matter of making the advantages of cheating so small compaired to the potential cost that it isn't worth doing.

It would also improve the quality of football we watch. Imagine the really technically gifted players like Figo, Totti or Duff were forced to stay up under fair challenges - you'd see them beating two of three players at a time because they have to, instead of half-beating one and then falling over.

Why not? well i think you've answered yourself in your following post

Someone once said that referees have a hard time because fans don't want the rules enforced fairly, but rather they want them enforced in their teams favour.

Such rules/punishments would be hard to make and enforce because....... if 22 players can cause organised violence on the pitch.........what can 60k crazy fans do?

Diving wise....... what are the advantages of diving???? Penalty...which practically equals a goal.

If you make take away this advantage, or if you decide to impose some kind of punishment to players who dive........fans will go absolutely nuts.....and they are the greatest force to deal with in a game.