Shocking ! (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Marceℓℓo
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I would actually have to agree with that too. I don't know how it is over there now, but 8-9 years ago it was very hard for a foreigner to get a job in Sweden. It was partially a reason why we left Sweden. The major reason being we didn't apply for an asylum because my parents didn't want to do that. A combination of not being a citizen and not being Swedish was essentially the reason why my dad couldn't get a job there. While here, all you need is a work-permit/permanent residency.
Even citizens of foreign origin had trouble finding jobs too though. An example is a relative of family friends (who're Indian): She had a phone interview for a job and everything was going fine, at one point the job was pretty much offered to her until they asked for her name and then all of a sudden they weren't interested.
That could have all changed by now because I detected a huge difference in the attitude of people when I went back to visit in '04 and '05. The reason most likely is the change in the demography of Sweden over the past decade.
Let me give a little background info here... A lot of the immigrants in Europe are living off welfare while in the United States they're working their butts off and therefore helping the economy. This is also why immigrants here integrate better. So there's no wonder why they're so welcome to this part of the world and not over there. Over there all these immigrants are housed in the same communities and these 'ghetto's' are created and with that the ghetto mentality, that we all know about.
What's changing over there now though, is that the kids of these people (who're living off welfare) have passed that age where welfare is given to them and they've realized that they have to go to school, get an education, and join the workforce to make ends meet. So the original idea behind opening the doors to immigrants back in the 60's or 70's (or whenever it started) is finally paying off. So now, I reckon that discrimination in the work force over there has declined as a result.
Even citizens of foreign origin had trouble finding jobs too though. An example is a relative of family friends (who're Indian): She had a phone interview for a job and everything was going fine, at one point the job was pretty much offered to her until they asked for her name and then all of a sudden they weren't interested.
That could have all changed by now because I detected a huge difference in the attitude of people when I went back to visit in '04 and '05. The reason most likely is the change in the demography of Sweden over the past decade.
Let me give a little background info here... A lot of the immigrants in Europe are living off welfare while in the United States they're working their butts off and therefore helping the economy. This is also why immigrants here integrate better. So there's no wonder why they're so welcome to this part of the world and not over there. Over there all these immigrants are housed in the same communities and these 'ghetto's' are created and with that the ghetto mentality, that we all know about.
What's changing over there now though, is that the kids of these people (who're living off welfare) have passed that age where welfare is given to them and they've realized that they have to go to school, get an education, and join the workforce to make ends meet. So the original idea behind opening the doors to immigrants back in the 60's or 70's (or whenever it started) is finally paying off. So now, I reckon that discrimination in the work force over there has declined as a result.
I know, which is why I don't understand why you turned it into one. The fact you would even joke about as much as a European inferiority complex.. man, have you ever read a European book, seen a European movie or met people from Europe? Trust me, there's no such thing as a European inferiority complex. We've been pretty confident for well over 2000 years.
What you are doing funnily enough do is trying to make me backfire. Yes, Belgium has got a couple of problems. But honestly, very, very few. The health care system is great, education is free, the standard of living is high, the economy is doing quite well and pretty much everyone gets to have a nice holiday. The few small problems Belgium does have are simply to difficult to explain to foreigners and especially to Americans.
The fact you're automatically assuming we have all your problems or even bigger problems as some sort of kindergarten defense mechanism makes me think though. It's pretty funny, because it's the kind of American reaction Michael Moore is always laughing about in his movies.
Actually you and Andy started talking about social mobility. I also never said there was much social mobility in Italy. I said there was much in Belgium. And in Belgium, as you know, we have a quite big muslim population. I wouldn't say they're always that well integrated, however most of them do have jobs and they all went to school. Trust me, the problems between muslims and the society as a whole in Belgium are not about social mobility.
PS: the bridge and the terminal aren't even in the same league.
What you are doing funnily enough do is trying to make me backfire. Yes, Belgium has got a couple of problems. But honestly, very, very few. The health care system is great, education is free, the standard of living is high, the economy is doing quite well and pretty much everyone gets to have a nice holiday. The few small problems Belgium does have are simply to difficult to explain to foreigners and especially to Americans.
The fact you're automatically assuming we have all your problems or even bigger problems as some sort of kindergarten defense mechanism makes me think though. It's pretty funny, because it's the kind of American reaction Michael Moore is always laughing about in his movies.
Actually you and Andy started talking about social mobility. I also never said there was much social mobility in Italy. I said there was much in Belgium. And in Belgium, as you know, we have a quite big muslim population. I wouldn't say they're always that well integrated, however most of them do have jobs and they all went to school. Trust me, the problems between muslims and the society as a whole in Belgium are not about social mobility.
PS: the bridge and the terminal aren't even in the same league.
I have run out of explanations for your single-dimensional commentary that I'm really left to believe that it must be some kind of self-defense mechanism. No one could try to turn any bit of news into a "that would never happen here" mantra, while ignoring all evidence to the contrary, without having some form of deep-seeded need for validation.
I never implied that. After all, I've made no secret here on these forums that I have been needling my wife to get things moving on an E.U. passport application for me through Portugal. Part you could say for that is the possibility of owning property. Part of that is some of the reduced mess whenever I'm traveling in Europe. And another part is that presidential administrations like this one sometimes make me identify far more with things overseas than over here as far as where my values lie. There's been no secret about that either.
So would I even consider that if I believed Europe was just one festering dump a notch stinkier than what's in America in all regards? Hardly.
But the one-dimensional airs of cultural or nationalistic superiority you regularly put on (regardless of your reluctance to speak of any evidence to the contrary) strongly suggests a form of pathology or overcompensation, if not both.
The only times I encounter that kind of one-dimensional, party line speaking is when either it comes from nationalist propaganda (e.g., Kim Il Jung or a Chinese government-controlled media) or a form of personal pathology.
Since I should be able to rule out the case of nationalist propaganda in Belgium (or maybe I shouldn't be so quick?), my money is on the latter.
I never implied that. After all, I've made no secret here on these forums that I have been needling my wife to get things moving on an E.U. passport application for me through Portugal. Part you could say for that is the possibility of owning property. Part of that is some of the reduced mess whenever I'm traveling in Europe. And another part is that presidential administrations like this one sometimes make me identify far more with things overseas than over here as far as where my values lie. There's been no secret about that either.
So would I even consider that if I believed Europe was just one festering dump a notch stinkier than what's in America in all regards? Hardly.
But the one-dimensional airs of cultural or nationalistic superiority you regularly put on (regardless of your reluctance to speak of any evidence to the contrary) strongly suggests a form of pathology or overcompensation, if not both.
The only times I encounter that kind of one-dimensional, party line speaking is when either it comes from nationalist propaganda (e.g., Kim Il Jung or a Chinese government-controlled media) or a form of personal pathology.
Since I should be able to rule out the case of nationalist propaganda in Belgium (or maybe I shouldn't be so quick?), my money is on the latter.
If I may add my bit to the topic:
I believe the EU itself is in a crisis. The problem being that even though as Seven mentioned, EU generally has very strong social policies (free education, health care, etc.) the problem is, that those things are becoming unsustainable, because our population is getting too old and there simply aren't enough people who will put money into those things. And the main problem is, that people aren't willing to give all those good things up, and thus governments have their hands tied.
I believe the EU itself is in a crisis. The problem being that even though as Seven mentioned, EU generally has very strong social policies (free education, health care, etc.) the problem is, that those things are becoming unsustainable, because our population is getting too old and there simply aren't enough people who will put money into those things. And the main problem is, that people aren't willing to give all those good things up, and thus governments have their hands tied.
But that's the thing, swag. You do live that well in Belgium. And trust me, I'm not particularly proud of my country, I think the weather sucks and lots of Flemish can be a bit narrowminded when it comes to linguistic issues. But when it comes to stuff such as infrastructure, health care, education and job opportunities, Belgium really is that great. So yeah, from that point of view Belgium is superior. The fact you assume it's overcompensation tells me that you don't believe you could have all that, while it's pretty clear you can.
There is quite little evidence to the contrary I'm afraid
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There is quite little evidence to the contrary I'm afraid
.I don't know anything about the engineers over there. I was just making the point that mistakes on bridges, terminals, etc can happen anywhere.
When the Minneapolis bridge collapsed almost a year ago, Seven stated that such a tragedy would not happen in Europe. He was beaten in the argument because of the structural collapse of the terminal at the De Gualle airport, among other tragedies.
But the original argument was based on this:
While we get it that there are lots of flaws regarding all sorts of fucking things in this nation, becoming educated is something that takes effort and in no way has anything to do with which country they reside in. I still don't know what you're even trying to say with the above because it clearly shows a lack of understanding of the United States. It actually doesn't take much to be educated here.
When the Minneapolis bridge collapsed almost a year ago, Seven stated that such a tragedy would not happen in Europe. He was beaten in the argument because of the structural collapse of the terminal at the De Gualle airport, among other tragedies.
But that's the thing, swag. You do live that well in Belgium. And trust me, I'm not particularly proud of my country, I think the weather sucks and lots of Flemish can be a bit narrowminded when it comes to linguistic issues. But when it comes to stuff such as infrastructure, health care, education and job opportunities, Belgium really is that great. So yeah, from that point of view Belgium is superior. The fact you assume it's overcompensation tells me that you don't believe you could have all that, while it's pretty clear you can.
There is quite little evidence to the contrary I'm afraid.
There is quite little evidence to the contrary I'm afraid
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While we get it that there are lots of flaws regarding all sorts of fucking things in this nation, becoming educated is something that takes effort and in no way has anything to do with which country they reside in. I still don't know what you're even trying to say with the above because it clearly shows a lack of understanding of the United States. It actually doesn't take much to be educated here.
Sigh. Fine. Brand new structures are actually more likely to fall down. Why? Because even though everything has been tried and tested, it's still not the real thing. So when something is new IMO that's quite different from a bridge used every single day for years. When speaking about the bridge, it is clear that they should have known what was wrong and why it collapsed, as they also had the practical knowledge. Name me four other tragedies and name me one tragedy the size of Katrina, braniac.
What are the odds of becoming an engineer if you're from a backward neighbourhood, if you have poor parents and if you are forced to go to public schools?
What are the odds of becoming an engineer if you're from a backward neighbourhood, if you have poor parents and if you are forced to go to public schools?
But the fact of the matter is, engineers should have got the design right in the first place and/or made sure the structure was safe by inspecting the job the workers did. I mean, that's some pretty piss poor inspection and engineering if you ask me. While in regards to the bridge, that structure has been standing for decades and repairs were neglected apparently. So which one is worse? Who cares, because they both shouldn't have happened. But they did, and both demonstrate to us that these disasters can indeed happen anywhere.
Now, here we go again where I have to explain a little meteorology to my peers. You see, Andries, Europe is not susceptible to hurricanes/cyclones. Why? Because the general flow into the continent and North Atlantic water temperatures are not conducive of producing such a powerful propagating beast with winds in excess of 160mph. The closet thing Europe comes to a hurricane are those European wind storms that slam into your coasts, but those are nothing more powerful than a category one hurricane. Hurricane Katrina was a fringe Cat 5 storm. So, you can't use that as an argument because such a powerful storm has never hit Europe, braniac.
Europe doesn't lie above any major faultline as far as I know, so that's why you don't see any San Fran-like earthquakes on your superior continent.
What you lot need to do is read up on meteorology, climatology, geosciences and the like, because you need to stop taking credit for things you have absolutely no control of.
Now, here we go again where I have to explain a little meteorology to my peers. You see, Andries, Europe is not susceptible to hurricanes/cyclones. Why? Because the general flow into the continent and North Atlantic water temperatures are not conducive of producing such a powerful propagating beast with winds in excess of 160mph. The closet thing Europe comes to a hurricane are those European wind storms that slam into your coasts, but those are nothing more powerful than a category one hurricane. Hurricane Katrina was a fringe Cat 5 storm. So, you can't use that as an argument because such a powerful storm has never hit Europe, braniac.
Europe doesn't lie above any major faultline as far as I know, so that's why you don't see any San Fran-like earthquakes on your superior continent.
What you lot need to do is read up on meteorology, climatology, geosciences and the like, because you need to stop taking credit for things you have absolutely no control of.
Exactly my point. Now compare houses in Europe with houses in America .
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Lets concoct a Cat 5 storm, direct it towards Western Europe and see how well your houses hold up during that if you're so confident.
Fact is, many of these tragedies occur because of mother nature. Just wait until climate change. Perhaps you'll experience some of the weather events we do here.
No that wasn't your point. The point you were trying to make was that Europe is superior to the US when it comes to... well, pretty much everything but in this case just... the fact that you have less mass tragedies than we do. That's all you were trying to argue, so don't change the subject again like you did before with Greg after your original post.
Lets concoct a Cat 5 storm, direct it towards Western Europe and see how well your houses hold up during that if you're so confident.
Fact is, many of these tragedies occur because of mother nature. Just wait until climate change. Perhaps you'll experience some of the weather events we do here.
Lets concoct a Cat 5 storm, direct it towards Western Europe and see how well your houses hold up during that if you're so confident.
Fact is, many of these tragedies occur because of mother nature. Just wait until climate change. Perhaps you'll experience some of the weather events we do here.
Don't give me the mother nature shit. Some things are too hard to handle. Katrina wasn't.
First part. That sucks.
Second part. Say we could have a better health care system or education system, etc. Regardless of what it was it would be better than the current system we have right now. Would you really say no thanks I'd rather have a mediocre system that works for some people and not for others? It's not like the only option is to hike taxes, that's a little one dimensional. How about moving around budget funds? Like reducing spending certain areas that are really not needed. For example, do we really need a fence between us and Mexico or removing troops from the Middle East? Do we really need so many subsides going to ethanol producing farmers? Stuff like that. There are ways to work things around, it's called balancing a budget. Conservatives aren't very good at it, ask the current administration, they spend spend spend.
Anyway, I read an article in the paper yesterday about how citizens are unable to seek benefits by way of lawsuit should life insurance or pension plans not keep up their end of the bargain. You can only sue for premiums. If you die, the life insurance company really doesn't have to pay out benefits to your family because even if they forfit on their end of the deal, they can only be sued for premiums, which generally only account for a few thousand dollars.
Once again another misguided attempt from Congress to help the regular guy that went completely batty because a couple people failed to actually read what they were voting into law. Talk about mediocrity.
Second part. Say we could have a better health care system or education system, etc. Regardless of what it was it would be better than the current system we have right now. Would you really say no thanks I'd rather have a mediocre system that works for some people and not for others? It's not like the only option is to hike taxes, that's a little one dimensional. How about moving around budget funds? Like reducing spending certain areas that are really not needed. For example, do we really need a fence between us and Mexico or removing troops from the Middle East? Do we really need so many subsides going to ethanol producing farmers? Stuff like that. There are ways to work things around, it's called balancing a budget. Conservatives aren't very good at it, ask the current administration, they spend spend spend.
Anyway, I read an article in the paper yesterday about how citizens are unable to seek benefits by way of lawsuit should life insurance or pension plans not keep up their end of the bargain. You can only sue for premiums. If you die, the life insurance company really doesn't have to pay out benefits to your family because even if they forfit on their end of the deal, they can only be sued for premiums, which generally only account for a few thousand dollars.
Once again another misguided attempt from Congress to help the regular guy that went completely batty because a couple people failed to actually read what they were voting into law. Talk about mediocrity.