Shocking ! (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Marceℓℓo
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Word.
True. But then again Belgian, and Swedes, make good money, so paying taxes isn't that much of an issue. And whereas the government does not use all our euros wisely, the biggest part of it is used well. Most importantly though is that what we pay less via taxes than we would pay for privatised health care or American universities.
Belgium and Sweden are very different on alcohol though.
Belgium and Sweden are very different on alcohol though.
I think we're talking about social mobility in different terms. Access to education is one contributing element. The real challenge is what happens once you have that in hand. I know of a good number of friends in Europe who complain that you can have degrees up the yin yang, but that still doesn't get you access to the employment you feel that should entitle you to.
Standard of living, etc., is influenced by education, but it's really dictated by your employment opportunities.
(Of course, given that many of these Europeans I met while working in the States likely skews their perspective on employment opportunities back home.)
Standard of living, etc., is influenced by education, but it's really dictated by your employment opportunities.
(Of course, given that many of these Europeans I met while working in the States likely skews their perspective on employment opportunities back home.)
Countries such as Belgium, The Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Luxemburg, Germany and France have very high employment rates. With a good degree you can do virtually anything you want in these countries. Anyone telling you otherwise is just someone who'll never be satisfied. If they're Italian or Spanish though.. In Italy degrees count, just not as much as they do in Belgium. Add to that the fact that Italy's economy isn't doing too great and well, no, you're probably not entitled to the employment you feel you are.
Standard of living in Northern Western Europe is very high though. I don't think the United States are even in the same league, Greg. And they probably rate below Spain and Italy as well. In all fairness, even mere statistics show you that for a whole lot of factors you're better off in Europe.
And hey, you can laugh at me. You can say whatever you want, but in the end, the USA are doing very, very poorly at the moment. And you might want to focus on that, rather than defend everything that's going wrong.
Standard of living in Northern Western Europe is very high though. I don't think the United States are even in the same league, Greg. And they probably rate below Spain and Italy as well. In all fairness, even mere statistics show you that for a whole lot of factors you're better off in Europe.
And hey, you can laugh at me. You can say whatever you want, but in the end, the USA are doing very, very poorly at the moment. And you might want to focus on that, rather than defend everything that's going wrong.
point i'm trying to make here is that while people who are citizens of those countries you mentioned seven have it better chances of enjoying a better life than the citizens of usa and canada, not everyone is a citizen of those countries you mentioned. and those countries you mentioned are less accepting of immigrants
The same thing happens in the US from time to time, especially in rural communities where the nearest major hospital is far away. It sucks but it does happen. That said, we should always try to improve.
I think that's the biggest problem with Americans these days. So much apathy, so much settling. People say "We have a good health care system, nothing needs to change". Why not have a better than good healthcare system? It's like going after the decent looking chick at the bar instead of the extremely hot one. You may have to put in a little more work, but in the end, the rewards could be greater. The same could be said for infrastructure, economy, education system, and national policies. All of them are good. But at a certain point being good isn't good enough anymore, especially when things can always be better.
I think that's the biggest problem with Americans these days. So much apathy, so much settling. People say "We have a good health care system, nothing needs to change". Why not have a better than good healthcare system? It's like going after the decent looking chick at the bar instead of the extremely hot one. You may have to put in a little more work, but in the end, the rewards could be greater. The same could be said for infrastructure, economy, education system, and national policies. All of them are good. But at a certain point being good isn't good enough anymore, especially when things can always be better.
The question wasn't about general employment rates nor the standard of living in Europe. That was never my point. Sheesh. I'm pointing out all the flaws to Vinman in the health care system here and you think I'm just smoking the USA's own dope here. If you think I'm Mr.-Blind-to-America's flaws, you've had me entirely wrong for years here. Or are you just reacting with some sort of trigger-finger defensive European inferiority complex inspired by all the Cro-Magnon "USA USA" chants around the coming Olympic season?
I honestly have to wonder, because I've yet to hear you acknowledge a single problem with any of Europe. Which only convinces me that the blinders are on hard and there's something else motivating you. Like some kind of sublimated insecurity about where you live. Because something is preventing you from putting your guard down and being truthful about the bad as well as the good. (Not that I couldn't entirely blame you. You must get so much USA propaganda crap that it must feel like everyone telling you that Cristiano Ronaldo is the best player in the world, so you must pull the "overrated" card and turn the likes of a Sneijder into a god to prove to yourself you're right.) Well, either that or you're in serious denial.
Because you'll wax about bridges collapsing in Minnesota, saying it would never happen in civilized Europe. But then you act ignorant when we point out the brand spanking new Charles de Gaulle airport terminal collapse that killed people a few years ago. Or you'll vent about the story of the case that started the thread here, but be blind to similar things like how 11 detainees burn up in a fire in an Amsterdam airport where security was accused of being too slow to respond to the cries and banging for help from the burnt-to-death victims.
But let's get back to the point, since it wasn't general employment rates nor the standard of living in Europe. The point was what you brought up (remember?? please don't change the subject and finish what you started, OK?): that someone from a disadvantaged cultural, racial, and/or socio-economic background getting a break into opportunities was going to have a harder time breaking out of that in the U.S. than in Europe. Which is where I have to call "bullshit" on you.
Maybe Zé T, for example, has a different perspective from Sweden. But, for example, every Muslim I know who has had experience in both Europe and the U.S. (or Canada) has told me that, socio-economically, things are surprisingly more difficult (and anti-immigrant hostile) for Muslims in Europe than in Evil Satan All-Muslims-Crash-Planes-Into-Buildings U.S. of Freaking A. Which, IMO, is a bit shocking, really. (Hence the thread title.) At least it's been to me.
I honestly have to wonder, because I've yet to hear you acknowledge a single problem with any of Europe. Which only convinces me that the blinders are on hard and there's something else motivating you. Like some kind of sublimated insecurity about where you live. Because something is preventing you from putting your guard down and being truthful about the bad as well as the good. (Not that I couldn't entirely blame you. You must get so much USA propaganda crap that it must feel like everyone telling you that Cristiano Ronaldo is the best player in the world, so you must pull the "overrated" card and turn the likes of a Sneijder into a god to prove to yourself you're right.) Well, either that or you're in serious denial.
Because you'll wax about bridges collapsing in Minnesota, saying it would never happen in civilized Europe. But then you act ignorant when we point out the brand spanking new Charles de Gaulle airport terminal collapse that killed people a few years ago. Or you'll vent about the story of the case that started the thread here, but be blind to similar things like how 11 detainees burn up in a fire in an Amsterdam airport where security was accused of being too slow to respond to the cries and banging for help from the burnt-to-death victims.
But let's get back to the point, since it wasn't general employment rates nor the standard of living in Europe. The point was what you brought up (remember?? please don't change the subject and finish what you started, OK?): that someone from a disadvantaged cultural, racial, and/or socio-economic background getting a break into opportunities was going to have a harder time breaking out of that in the U.S. than in Europe. Which is where I have to call "bullshit" on you.
Maybe Zé T, for example, has a different perspective from Sweden. But, for example, every Muslim I know who has had experience in both Europe and the U.S. (or Canada) has told me that, socio-economically, things are surprisingly more difficult (and anti-immigrant hostile) for Muslims in Europe than in Evil Satan All-Muslims-Crash-Planes-Into-Buildings U.S. of Freaking A. Which, IMO, is a bit shocking, really. (Hence the thread title.) At least it's been to me.