Serie A vs EPL vs La Liga debate (15 Viewers)

[Byrone]

While I agree with the gist of this post, I really don't think you can "blame" something like the commentating. Surely that depends on the different broadcasters in different countries.
I don't agree with the drab stadium atmosphere either. From what I've seen & heard it's no worse than for example England or Spain.

The stadiums in itself are a problem though, as is the continued hooliganism (for lack of a better word). And if you ask me, the biggest problem are not necessarily the clubs, but the FIGC & the other governing bodies. The downfall was clearly already in progress before Calciopoli happened, but it was never a surprise that this farce (I call it a farce for how the entire thing was handled, regardless of guilty / not giulty) wasn't going to improve things. Quite the opposite.
Plus, their entire approach to the game seems to be outdated.

Yes you can,football is a global sport & english is the medium of instruction.One of the main reasons the epl does so well is how its commentators interact with the viewer so to speak.The actually know the club history,they know about the history of certain players & highlight these points during the match.There's a HUGE difference with epl commentators in that they make the match exciting & they exude passion for the game.Have you ever heard the commentary for Serie A matches? Sometimes i think they're commentating for test cricket matches.

Stadium atmosphere is a big issue,why do you think our stadium is being rebuilt & to make it more intimate so to speak? Everybody is guilty here,the FIGC & all the clubs should have been marketing their clubs a whole lot better,in order to gain more exposure & to bring in more fans.You can't just cater for the Italian audience & that's why their failing.

To an extent, but I don't think that was a very Italian team out there last night at all, under Ancelotti those players would have done better. Milan are a soft touch under Leonardo.

Lets not kid ourselves here,Leonardo learnt a lot from Ancelotti & its not like he hasn't tried to adapt to some of his tactics.Simply put,Serie A teams can't compete with teams that are stronger,faster & that have amazing stamina that allows them to run for the entire 90mins.

Atmosphere is an interesting topic as English clubs, especially the big ones, often have full stadiums with fans sitting down being quiet, only jumping up on goals or particular moments in a match. Italian ones on the other hand are half empty but the fans make noise, can group together for chants, and have flags and banners. The league would be killing two birds with one stone if they could get bums on seats again whilst retaining the atmosphere. England hasn't been successful with that. By getting families in that has also brought a political correctness (rife in Britain anyway) where you are not allowed to stand, so generally can't sing. We need to find some middle ground, where we make money but don't turn stadiums into the libraries seen around the PL during normal league matches. Germany is a better example, but then you come back to Galliani's point about having the stadiums to do that.

As i said to buck,why do you think our stadium is being rebuilt & made smaller? Hooliganism will always be there,it doesn't matter but if you can't make the atmosphere exciting & something that everybody can enjoy,it aint gonna work.

 

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[Alen]

Serie A commentating is great, imo, Byrone. Far from boring.


P.S: Wait, do you perhaps mean the non-Italian commentary?

 

[Byrone]

Serie A commentating is great, imo, Byrone. Far from boring.


P.S: Wait, do you perhaps mean the non-Italian commentary?

Yep & it's not surprise that the epl teams biggest non english fans base comes from the asian market.

It's easier to promote a club when you market on a universally understood language.Have a look at the Juve website & see how pathetic the english is,i don't even wanna bother with the other teams.

 

[Alen]

Yep & it's not surprise that the epl teams biggest non english fans base comes from the asian market.

It's easier to promote a club when you market on a universally understood language.Have a look at the Juve website & see how pathetic the english is,i don't even wanna bother with the other teams.

Ah yes. It's a handicap, the EPL has a natural advantage here.

The Italian commentators are just as good, imo better, than the English speaking commentators. But if they want to market themselves they will have to do it in a foreign language, something neither the English nor the Spanish (who rule the South American market) have to do. This is where the big problem comes.

 

[Fred]

Italian commentators are like the Arab ones minus the tolerated bigotry i believe.

 

[JuveJay]

Simply put,Serie A teams can't compete with teams that are stronger,faster & that have amazing stamina that allows them to run for the entire 90mins.

This is something of a cliché at times, an excuse for poor tactical thinking. Milan have done it before, it's about imposing your tempo on a game. If you are in Milan's position and concede early then yeah, you are fucked. If you can bring the game under control then you have a chance. Milan in the past have switched gears in this competition, beating teams like Utd soundly with an older and slower team to last nights. Milan's average age last night in the starting lineup was 28, so there was no particular reason for them to be slow or unfit, it's a tempo issue. There are guys in that Utd team that are not 90 minute players for example.

It's true that Serie A teams do need to improve the athletic side of the game, but we'll see how that argument holds up with Mourinho's athletic Inter side against another one in Chelsea. Our side has certainly become more athletic over the last couple of seasons, so we will see how that developes. But then people moan about us having too many athletes and not enough footballers. Barcelona have some quite weak players athletically but their technical game is enforced on everyone they play and they end up tired from chasing.

Our stadium is being made smaller because our gates are too low to warrant it being made bigger. It can be expanded in future. Hooliganism is in every country but the problem in Italy is that the ultras have too much input at clubs, they are too visual.

 

[JuveJay]

Yep & it's not surprise that the epl teams biggest non english fans base comes from the asian market.

It's easier to promote a club when you market on a universally understood language.Have a look at the Juve website & see how pathetic the english is,i don't even wanna bother with the other teams.

True.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

Yes you can,football is a global sport & english is the medium of instruction.One of the main reasons the epl does so well is how its commentators interact with the viewer so to speak.The actually know the club history,they know about the history of certain players & highlight these points during the match.There's a HUGE difference with epl commentators in that they make the match exciting & they exude passion for the game.Have you ever heard the commentary for Serie A matches? Sometimes i think they're commentating for test cricket matches.

But that has everything to do with the broadcaster & not with the league if you ask me.
In my own case, when I watch games on Belgian television, it's always the same commentators, regardless of whether it's an English, Italian or Spanish game.
And it's like that in many countries.

Stadium atmosphere is a big issue,why do you think our stadium is being rebuilt & to make it more intimate so to speak? Everybody is guilty here,the FIGC & all the clubs should have been marketing their clubs a whole lot better,in order to gain more exposure & to bring in more fans.You can't just cater for the Italian audience & that's why their failing.

The comfort of the Italian stadiums is indeed below par, but that has very little to do with atmosphere imo.

 

[Byrone]

Ah yes. It's a handicap, the EPL has a natural advantage here.

The Italian commentators are just as good, imo better, than the English speaking commentators. But if they want to market themselves they will have to do it in a foreign language, something neither the English nor the Spanish (who rule the South American market) have to do. This is where the big problem comes.

That's just a weak excuse for pathetic global marketing tbh.Have you seen the weekly epl highlights? They promote the league by using the top stars & the company that compiles the highlights does a marvelous job at it too.The picture quality is fantastic & the color & brightness cannot be compared to the boring Serie A highlights.

You might not be able to get fans to watch the matches but match highlights are a preview to what one can expect to see with forth coming matches.

This is something of a cliché at times, an excuse for poor tactical thinking. Milan have done it before, it's about imposing your tempo on a game. If you are in Milan's position and concede early then yeah, you are fucked. If you can bring the game under control then you have a chance. Milan in the past have switched gears in this competition, beating teams like Utd soundly with an older and slower team to last nights. Milan's average age last night in the starting lineup was 28, so there was no particular reason for them to be slow or unfit, it's a tempo issue. There are guys in that Utd team that are not 90 minute players for example.

It's true that Serie A teams do need to improve the athletic side of the game, but we'll see how that argument holds up with Mourinho's athletic Inter side against another one in Chelsea. Our side has certainly become more athletic over the last couple of seasons, so we will see how that developes. But then people moan about us having too many athletes and not enough footballers. Barcelona have some quite weak players athletically but their technical game is enforced on everyone they play and they end up tired from chasing.

Our stadium is being made smaller because our gates are too low to warrant it being made bigger. It can be expanded in future. Hooliganism is in every country but the problem in Italy is that the ultras have too much input at clubs, they are too visual.

That may be true but the passing game in Italy is not exactly on par with the english or spanish sides.Even when Capello was in charge & we had such an amazing squad our passing was pathetic.It was all about long balls & physical prowess.The problem is that Serie A sides are overwhelmed with the pace that the english sides operate at & it's no coincidence that Serie A teams fair better with spanish sides.

Manure's success to down to tactical superiority,strength,stamina,pace & the team working as a solid cohesive unit even if they have some players that aren't that gifted.Unfortunately for us our team lacks in all those areas.

Our stadium is also being made smaller to create a more intimate atmosphere & to entice fans to get closer to their favorite players.It just makes the fans feel more involved with in the game.Even when you watch epl games & notice that you have a better view of the game in terms of camera angles & close ups.

As for the hooliganism issue it falls onto the clubs,if they wanna allow the ultras to have some much say in the matter its their fault.There are many ways to please them & control them.

 

[Byrone]

But that has everything to do with the broadcaster & not with the league if you ask me.
In my own case, when I watch games on Belgian television, it's always the same commentators, regardless of whether it's an English, Italian or Spanish game.
And it's like that in many countries.

That's where Serie A fails because here our broadcaster had rules & stipulations from the barclays epl in terms of commentating.

The comfort of the Italian stadiums is indeed below par, but that has very little to do with atmosphere imo.

The FIGC are a bunch of pussies that can't crack down on ultras hard enough & why would any family man wanna bring their kids to see violent behavior from a bunch of degenerates?

 

[Buck Fuddy]

The FIGC are a bunch of pussies that can't crack down on ultras hard enough & why would any family man wanna bring their kids to see violent behavior from a bunch of degenerates?

Absolutely.

But take the ultras out of the stadia & there's less atmosphere. Families generally just don't create much atmosphere. It's a double edged sword here.

 

[Byrone]

Absolutely.

But take the ultras out of the stadia & there's less atmosphere. Families generally just don't create much atmosphere. It's a double edged sword here.

But this is their problem they've allowed to evolve over many years of neglect.Can you honestly tell me there's no way to get them to clamp down on racist & violent behavior without upsetting the ultras?

Pathetic work on behalf of the FIGC & the clubs imo.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

Exactly like you said, B.
It has been allowed to evolve over many, many years. And that's exactly why the whole ultra situation is becoming more difficult with each passing year.

And something like the racist behaviour is especially difficult to clamp down on. Because, what is or isn't perceived as racism? Just have a look at the infamous Balotelli thread on this forum. People are disagreeing all over the place. Just like the Italian fans who go the stadium will disagree amongst each other.
And as a result some fans will stop singing those chants, while the other will sing twice as hard to show that they don't agree with it. Which leads on to create tension between fans of the same club, possibly even violence.

But I think we can all agree that something needs to be done by both the FIGC & the clubs.
For example what happened for the Juve - Roma game (closing down a specific part of the stadium) was a step in the right direction imo.

 

[Byrone]

Exactly like you said, B.
It has been allowed to evolve over many, many years. And that's exactly why the whole ultra situation is becoming more difficult with each passing year.

And something like the racist behaviour is especially difficult to clamp down on. Because, what is or isn't perceived as racism? Just have a look at the infamous Balotelli thread on this forum. People are disagreeing all over the place. Just like the Italian fans who go the stadium will disagree amongst each other.
And as a result some fans will stop singing those chants, while the other will sing twice as hard to show that they don't agree with it. Which leads on to create tension between fans of the same club, possibly even violence.

But I think we can all agree that something needs to be done by both the FIGC & the clubs.
For example what happened for the Juve - Roma game (closing down a specific part of the stadium) was a step in the right direction imo.

You know punishment is not always the best way to go around controlling bad behavior.The clubs have something the ultras would like & the FIGC could always implement reward systems for fans.

These ultras are not unreasonable or retarded & if they can actually get club pr managers & players to interact with them a little more it surely wouldn't hurt to try.At the end of the day,i'm pretty sure thy want wants best for their respective clubs & if reward doesn't work then much bigger punishments need to be implemented.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

You know punishment is not always the best way to go around controlling bad behavior.The clubs have something the ultras would like & the FIGC could always implement reward systems for fans.

These ultras are not unreasonable or retarded & if they can actually get club pr managers & players to interact with them a little more it surely wouldn't hurt to try.At the end of the day,i'm pretty sure thy want wants best for their respective clubs & if reward doesn't work then much bigger punishments need to be implemented.

Sad thing is that I'm not so sure about the 2 things I highlighted.

I have seen a fair bunch of retarded ultras over the years (fighting between fans of the same club, throwing burning stuff at a lower tier with the purpose of hurting others, ...).
Don't get me wrong, not all ultras are retards or unreasonable. But a good number of them are, and more often than not, they are the most vocal & the most revered by their peers.

As for wanting the best for their club, I think we have seen enough this season to know that that is not necessarily true.

 

[SABSAB]

The FIGC are a bunch of pussies that can't crack down on ultras hard enough & why would any family man wanna bring their kids to see violent behavior from a bunch of degenerates?

My brother said once: In Italy, you don't bring your family to the stadium, only if you want to get rid of them...

 

[JCK]

Italy Coach Marcello Lippi has reiterated “Inter are not Italian football” and the Champions League says nothing about Serie A.

The Nerazzurri are the only remaining representative in Europe after Fiorentina, Milan and the Europa League's Juventus crashed out.

“Inter are a great squad, but they cannot be taken as an example of Italian football because they are all foreign,” said the 2006 World Cup winner.

“There wasn't a single Italian in the side that beat Chelsea. Italian football is made from Italian players and Italian tacticians.

“People keep judging Italian football based on what happens in the Champions League, but that's not all that Italian football is.”

Lippi has called many players from the smaller clubs and maintains they are the 'heartland' of calcio.

“Italian football is not only Milan, Juventus and Fiorentina, but also Cagliari, Napoli, Genoa, Udinese, Palermo, Sampdoria and the Nazionale.

“Before declaring that calcio is in crisis, perhaps we should say instead that only Inter have delivered among the big teams on an international stage.

“We can also say that Fiorentina did not deserve to be knocked out by Bayern Munich, who are a great side. They went out after two wonderful performances for reasons that have nothing to do with their football.

“We can say that Milan had a great first leg with Manchester United and could've received a very different result had they taken their chances.

“Before burying Italian football, I think we should think very carefully.”

Lippi also had strong words for the Premier League sides that are doing so well in Europe.

“I have said many times that Manchester United, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool are owned by Americans or Arabs, have managers who are French, German, Scottish and Spanish. Therefore it is not English football.

“The definition of English football is in the smaller clubs and the national team. Let's see what they manage to do.”
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What a senile old man!

 

[JBF]

You forgot the famous "FT"

 

[JCK]

I keep that for you.

 

[Dostoevsky]

“There wasn't a single Italian in the side that beat Chelsea. Italian football is made from Italian players and Italian tacticians.

He's clearly jealous of Mourinho.