[Serie A] Udinese-Juventus (33 Viewers)

[Tifoso]

++ [ originally posted by swag ] ++


I had to replay that one on my DVR several times to make sure it was his foot and not some gopher that popped out of the ground to suddenly send the ball backwards.

:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

 

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[baggio]

++ [ originally posted by Maresca78 ] ++


did you see my post in italian on page 58?

it says capello used the formation 4-3-2-1 and that it could be a very good solution to routate and take the maximum of our forwards..
DP, Mutu, Nedved and Camoranesi and may be even Zlatan can take the 2 places behind the trez.
a team must be variable and I think this could be a very useful formation for the future.

In theory and on paper it sounds fantastic. How many of your ideas do you actually see Capello actually making use of? With his stubborn mindset, he's going to play without adjusting to the situation. There are no variables as far as Capello is concerned and that is quite simply a pathetic situation. It doesnt really matter which formation he uses to be honest, because he's very rigid and there wont be an optimal use of resources given his stringent beliefs on certain issues.

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by Holygr4le ] ++


Great post finally.
To much bullsh*t from time to time in here.

I both agree and disagree.
I disagree in that Giannichedda did not accomplished anything. He took away all space in midfield for Udine. But that does not mean that I wanted him on the pith, neither that I like playing with 3 defensive midfielders.

I agree that Giannichedda took away space for the Udinese midfield...however that was all he was able to do. He basically sat in front of the defense and waited to intercept through balls that Emerson could easily handle while actually making himself available for passes and getting himself involved with the match. Emerson could do the job of Giannichedda easily while also help push forward and complete passes around the pitch. It's like we stepped on the pitch yesterday wanting to defend a 1-0 lead for the final ten minutes of a match...makes no sense. We were essentially playing with 10 and half players IMO with Giannichedda sitting in midfield.

 

[Stu]

Personally I think that Capello got his tactics wrong again. We didn't need to start with three defensive midfielders and that limited us in attack. Vieira and Kovac were IMO our best players and Del Piero did a pretty good job too. Not for the first time this season Zlatan disappointed and if I were in charge he would be benched immediately. Mutu deserves a fvcking chance and if anyone believes that Ibrahimovic deserves to play ahead of Trezeguet or Del Piero right now they are mistaken. Not an inspiring performance, but hey, what's new about that? I hope to see a better display against Parma but at least we got the three points.

 

[Freddy]

CONGRATS for Juve...it's a precious win

 

[Azzurri7]

++ [ originally posted by Stuart ] ++
Personally I think that Capello got his tactics wrong again. We didn't need to start with three defensive midfielders and that limited us in attack. Vieira and Kovac were IMO our best players and Del Piero did a pretty good job too. Not for the first time this season Zlatan disappointed and if I were in charge he would be benched immediately. Mutu deserves a fvcking chance and if anyone believes that Ibrahimovic deserves to play ahead of Trezeguet or Del Piero right now they are mistaken. Not an inspiring performance, but hey, what's new about that? I hope to see a better display against Parma but at least we got the three points.

If I were Capello as-well, he'd be benched by now....

Anyhow, I would really Love to see Mutu with Dp and Trezeguet...Not to forget that Dp-Mutu proved that they can play together.....

 

[nedved34]

++ [ originally posted by Stuart ] ++
Personally I think that Capello got his tactics wrong again. We didn't need to start with three defensive midfielders and that limited us in attack. Vieira and Kovac were IMO our best players and Del Piero did a pretty good job too. Not for the first time this season Zlatan disappointed and if I were in charge he would be benched immediately. Mutu deserves a fvcking chance and if anyone believes that Ibrahimovic deserves to play ahead of Trezeguet or Del Piero right now they are mistaken. Not an inspiring performance, but hey, what's new about that? I hope to see a better display against Parma but at least we got the three points.

1- Capello can't be wrong,we won 3 points away to Udinese.I think you guys are underrating Udinese,I never predicted us to take the 3 points from udine.

2- I think Zlatan was ok,I am tired of Del piero fanatics(not talking about you) of waiting the oportunity to bash him whenever he doesn't score or give assist etc.. I think he gave something to the team last night.I know he was kinda selfish and angry like shooting the ball wide etc..but I think he is doing a good job so far,and yes he is still better than Del piero in the moment,although Del piero is improving and doing good job also..

3- Mutu is not good,not Juve material..wait and see,only time will tell you that I am right about this..

 

[Azzurri7]

++ [ originally posted by snoop ] ++


1- Capello can't be wrong,we won 3 points away to Udinese.I think you guys are underrating Udinese,I never predicted us to take the 3 points from udine.

2- I think Zlatan was ok,I am tired of Del piero fanatics(not talking about you) of waiting the oportunity to bash him whenever he doesn't score or give assist etc.. I think he gave something to the team last night.I know he was kinda selfish and angry like shooting the ball wide etc..but I think he is doing a good job so far,and yes he is still better than Del piero in the moment,although Del piero is improving and doing good job also..

3- Mutu is not good,not Juve material..wait and see,only time will tell you that I am right about this..

1- Why Capello can't be wrong? We all make mistakes no? Or maybe because he's Juve's coach with Angels over his shoulders, Mistakes not in his dictionary.....Wake up ffs!!! Yes, he's doing a mistake for not playing Mutu, yes he's doing a mistake for Subs Dp when he was playing better than Ibra, and Yes he's doing a mistake to Sub Nedved, and Put Camo in, When he could have Started Camo from the start and Play Adrian in the 2nd half.

2- I'm tired of the likes of you as-well, Saying he's still better than Dp when Dp played only 2 matches(the 2nd one wasn't full 90min) and scored twice with one assist, how can Zlatan be better...??? Take Off your glasses.

3- Mutu is not good?? I thought you liked him when we were playing Friendly matches Now he's not good anymore? How's that? you don't have the rights to judge so Far he didn't play. Please, how can you say time will tell and he's not good when he isn't given the chance to play... Why shouldn't he Fvcking play when Zlatan isn't playing good? atleast for 20min...Not blaming Zlatan here, Blaming Capello....

 

[nedved34]

++ [ originally posted by Azzurri7 ] ++


1- Why Capello can't be wrong? We all make mistakes no? Or maybe because he's Juve's coach with Angels over his shoulders, Mistakes not in his dictionary.....Wake up ffs!!! Yes, he's doing a mistake for not playing Mutu, yes he's doing a mistake for Subs Dp when he was playing better than Ibra, and Yes he's doing a mistake to Sub Nedved, and Put Camo in, When he could have Started Camo from the start and Play Adrian in the 2nd half.

2- I'm tired of the likes of you as-well, Saying he's still better than Dp when Dp played only 2 matches(the 2nd one wasn't full 90min) and scored twice with one assist, how can Zlatan be better...??? Take Off your glasses.

3- Mutu is not good?? I thought you liked him when we were playing Friendly matches Now he's not good anymore? How's that? you don't have the rights to judge so Far he didn't play. Please, how can you say time will tell and he's not good when he isn't given the chance to play... Why shouldn't he Fvcking play when Zlatan isn't playing good? atleast for 20min...Not blaming Zlatan here, Blaming Capello....

are you reading what I am typing dumbass??
1- I said Cappello can't be wrong in this match,because he got the whole 3 points.you got the point or you want me to tell you in chinese?
2- you can't be tired of me,because I am not sucking Zlatan's dick 24/7 like you with Del piero's..I said Zlatan is better in the moment of what he is giving to the game than del piero,and that's my opinion..
3- like usual ,you like to make up stories,I never praised Mutu,and I am not judging the player,I am giving my opinion that he is not the player we are looking for,and only time will prove if I was right or wrong..

now fvck off my face,am not here to argue with fools like you..

 

[Stu]

1: Why can Capello not be wrong? Because we won? Come on snoop, you're smarter than that, or that's what I thought at least. Some of the choices he made last night were not sensible. Ok, so he wanted to maintain defensive stability away from home against a quality side, no problems there, but he didn't need to start with three defensive midfielders. Why didn't Camoranesi start? Why rest one of our most inform players against Udinese and not at home against Ascoli? And why didn't you expect us to win in Udine? Fiorentina smashed them three days prior and on the whole we're a better team than our bianconeri counterparts, even if they are a very capable outfit. With a few minor adjustments we could have done a lot better last night but don't get me wrong, I'm happy with the three points.

2: I know that you said that you weren't talking about me but I'm still going to reply. In my previous post I said that Zlatan was disappointing and he was. He wasn't horrible but definitely disappointing and by his high standards quite poor. You say that some of the DP fans look forward to having an opportunity to bash Zlatan which may be true in certain cases, but there are also those around here he treat Zlatan like a god, as if he can do no wrong, as if he's the best thing to happen to Juve since Platini. When a player performs poorly he should be open to criticism and when he does well he should in turn be praised, doesn't matter if his name is Alessandro Del Piero or Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

Fact is, Ibra has been an absolute non-factor in his last two matches. Obviously this doesn't make him a bad player or anything and he's still a better player than Del Piero at present but at this very moment Alex is playing the better football and producing the goods for the team so he should be ahead of Zlatan in the pecking order right now. When someone is out of form they should be dropped. It happened to DP last season and now it's time for it to happen to Zlatan. That said, I'm sure that Ibra will bounce back and play his part this season.

3: On what grounds can you say that Mutu isn't good enough for Juve? Has Capello given him a fair chance yet? No he hasn't even though Adrian had a very good pre-season and scored four goals in two games for the Romanian NT. Please elaborate as to why you don't think Mutu is Juve material.

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by snoop ] ++


1- Capello can't be wrong,we won 3 points away to Udinese.I think you guys are underrating Udinese,I never predicted us to take the 3 points from udine.

Doesn't matter if we won, our midfield still played like crap and the formation made absolutely no sense at all. As I stated earlier Udinese does not pose much of an attacking threat through midfield and if you watched the match we could not even control the midfield with three defensive midfielders. We played like crap and Capello was wrong yet we still won...happens a lot at Juventus.

2- I think Zlatan was ok,I am tired of Del piero fanatics(not talking about you) of waiting the oportunity to bash him whenever he doesn't score or give assist etc.. I think he gave something to the team last night.I know he was kinda selfish and angry like shooting the ball wide etc..but I think he is doing a good job so far,and yes he is still better than Del piero in the moment,although Del piero is improving and doing good job also..

For a 30 minute stretch in the second half Zlatan gave the ball away every time he recieved it...either being offsides, fouling his defender, and mostly making terrible passes. A whole 30 minutes...and for the rest of the match he was offsides more than he did anything useful with the ball. And you're saying Zlatan was "OK?" Okay...

3- Mutu is not good,not Juve material..wait and see,only time will tell you that I am right about this..

Really, is that so...hmm.

And I suppose by your reasoning Zalayeta is good enough for Juve then? Or is he good enough for Juve just because Capello says so? I think you are not looking at this situation objectively, buddy.


Good points Stuart and Rab.

 

[nedved34]

++ [ originally posted by Stuart ] ++
1: Why can Capello not be wrong? Because we won? Come on snoop, you're smarter than that, or that's what I thought at least. Some of the choices he made last night were not sensible. Ok, so he wanted to maintain defensive stability away from home against a quality side, no problems there, but he didn't need to start with three defensive midfielders. Why didn't Camoranesi start? Why rest one of our most inform players against Udinese and not at home against Ascoli? And why didn't you expect us to win in Udine? Fiorentina smashed them three days prior and on the whole we're a better team than our bianconeri counterparts, even if they are a very capable outfit. With a few minor adjustments we could have done a lot better last night but don't get me wrong, I'm happy with the three points.

Udinese may have lost to Fiorentina 4 days ago,but they burned the greeks 4 days earlier,that's not the point anyway..Udinese is a very strong team,who plays it very beautifull..this is one of the great teams in Italy where most of the big teams like us Milan and Inter lose points there,but we did great job and took the 3 points home..what else can I ask more?so why to criticize Capello?our mission is to take the 3 points,that's what I care.we could play it beautifull but end up in a draw..would you praise Capello then?sometimes we will play it ugly when it requires..

2: I know that you said that you weren't talking about me but I'm still going to reply. In my previous post I said that Zlatan was disappointing and he was. He wasn't horrible but definitely disappointing and by his high standards quite poor. You say that some of the DP fans look forward to having an opportunity to bash Zlatan which may be true in certain cases, but there are also those around here he treat Zlatan like a god, as if he can do no wrong, as if he's the best thing to happen to Juve since Platini. When a player performs poorly he should be open to criticism and when he does well he should in turn be praised, doesn't matter if his name is Alessandro Del Piero or Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

Agree with you about this,I am not one of those anyway,but I am glad Zlatan is here,and I expect a lot from him,and sometimes I ignore his selfishness and mistake,and not like others while they search for him to do a mistak and then bash,but he is doing a great job overall..

Fact is, Ibra has been an absolute non-factor in his last two matches. Obviously this doesn't make him a bad player or anything and he's still a better player than Del Piero at present but at this very moment Alex is playing the better football and producing the goods for the team so he should be ahead of Zlatan in the pecking order right now. When someone is out of form they should be dropped. It happened to DP last season and now it's time for it to happen to Zlatan. That said, I'm sure that Ibra will bounce back and play his part this season.

that's true point,there are other players that should take the oportunity to play when he is in bad form,but think about it,you can't bench a player like Zlatan,I know he is not scoring or giving assists,but are you missing the passes he is giving and the hard work??and besides that,he was playing in a weird position against udinese,he was going back most of the time..

3: On what grounds can you say that Mutu isn't good enough for Juve? Has Capello given him a fair chance yet? No he hasn't even though Adrian had a very good pre-season and scored four goals in two games for the Romanian NT. Please elaborate as to why you don't think Mutu is Juve material.

I was telling that before he came to Juve,it's not that he is palying bad or something, it's that he is not the player to replace one of trezeguet or Zlatan, even Del piero.I don't know,If he takes Zalayeta's role and not complain,I am ok with that..but till now,I have seen some minor problems with him:
1-his argument/fight with Zalatan in the friendly match in Romania
2-trying to complain about not playing,like sending message thru the media to Capello after scoring 2 goals with Romania..

these things can go further and make problems in team,I say fvck it,he doesn't worth it..

 

[nedved34]

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++

Good points Stuart and Rab.

gotta love that last sentnce,Like it came from the big brother

aanyways,I explained my points more in the second post..

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by snoop ] ++


Udinese may have lost to Fiorentina 4 days ago,but they burned the greeks 4 days earlier,that's not the point anyway..Udinese is a very strong team,who plays it very beautifull..this is one of the great teams in Italy where most of the big teams like us Milan and Inter lose points there,but we did great job and took the 3 points home..what else can I ask more?so why to criticize Capello?our mission is to take the 3 points,that's what I care.we could play it beautifull but end up in a draw..would you praise Capello then?sometimes we will play it ugly when it requires..

Udinese play very "beautifully" now? They sold their two most creative midfielders in the summer and their midfield this season is filled with hardworking all-arounders such as Obodo and Muntari. These players are not even near the class of Pizarro in terms of going forward.

And when was the last time we lost to Udinese? Do you have any idea, Snoop?

Fact of the matter is we played too defensively and could have even lost the match with our ineptness in attack and midfield. We were lucky to win and we are criticising Capello because the tactics yesterday just did not add up...three defensive midfielders with one player who did nothing but sit in front of the defense...Canoranesi sitting on the bench...Nedved playing on the right where he never performs...

 

[nedved34]

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++


Doesn't matter if we won, our midfield still played like crap and the formation made absolutely no sense at all. As I stated earlier Udinese does not pose much of an attacking threat through midfield and if you watched the match we could not even control the midfield with three defensive midfielders. We played like crap and Capello was wrong yet we still won...happens a lot at Juventus.

explained in the above post of mine,yeah sometimes we have to do it the ugly way.but we still were better than Udinese..

For a 30 minute stretch in the second half Zlatan gave the ball away every time he recieved it...either being offsides, fouling his defender, and mostly making terrible passes. A whole 30 minutes...and for the rest of the match he was offsides more than he did anything useful with the ball. And you're saying Zlatan was "OK?" Okay...

and what about the first half,or it's not that important,we just look to the negative side?
I remember you were bashing Del piero,and praising Zlatan last year all the time,what happened?wrong policy with other members?

Really, is that so...hmm.

And I suppose by your reasoning Zalayeta is good enough for Juve then? Or is he good enough for Juve just because Capello says so? I think you are not looking at this situation objectively, buddy.

what now?you mean I am a fool,I listen Capello's words and say it here?
Yes Zalayeta is good for Juve,he always did his Job when he was called,will Mutu have that patience and never complain?what if he does?does he worth it?

Good points Stuart and Rab.

it's always like that no?when someone agrees with you,you say that
:dontcare:

 

[Stu]

++ [ originally posted by snoop ] ++

Udinese may have lost to Fiorentina 4 days ago,but they burned the greeks 4 days earlier,that's not the point anyway..Udinese is a very strong team,who plays it very beautifull..this is one of the great teams in Italy where most of the big teams like us Milan and Inter lose points there,but we did great job and took the 3 points home..what else can I ask more?so why to criticize Capello?our mission is to take the 3 points,that's what I care.we could play it beautifull but end up in a draw..would you praise Capello then?sometimes we will play it ugly when it requires..

I agree that Udinese are a good team and that the primary objective in any game is to win and we did that. I'm not bashing Capello or anything I just said that he made mistakes, which he did. It's possible to make mistakes as a coach and still win and that was the case yesterday. For you to say that Capello could not have been wrong because we won was silly. If you said that he did his job I could understand that because we left Udine with the three points but he did make mistakes, no doubt about that. I've accepted that free flowing attacking football isn't Cap's style but some tactical changes could have made us a lot more assertive and effective against Udinese.

that's true point,there are other players that should take the oportunity to play when he is in bad form,but think about it,you can't bench a player like Zlatan,I know he is not scoring or giving assists,but are you missing the passes he is giving and the hard work??and besides that,he was playing in a weird position against udinese,he was going back most of the time..

I don't care if Zlatan doesn't score or set up a goal if he plays well, but he isn't playing well right now. Not only have the goals and assists not been there in recent games, but also the passes and hardwork that you are talking about. In the last two games Zlatan's passing has been pathetic and I've seen more selfishness than work ethic or teamwork. When he wasn't giving the ball away foolishly he was either offside or committing fouls.

I was telling that before he came to Juve,it's not that he is palying bad or something, it's that he is not the player to replace one of trezeguet or Zlatan, even Del piero.I don't know,If he takes Zalayeta's role and not complain,I am ok with that..but till now,I have seen some minor problems with him:
1-his argument/fight with Zalatan in the friendly match in Romania
2-trying to complain about not playing,like sending message thru the media to Capello after scoring 2 goals with Romania..

these things can go further and make problems in team,I say fvck it,he doesn't worth it..

About the first point: Not everyone has Del Piero or Maldini's class when it comes to temperament on and off the pitch and I would have been angry with Zlatan myself. He wanted to do everything on his own in that match and quite often he seems more concerned about looking good or showing off than doing something useful for the team.

As for Mutu trying to send a message to Capello, I would do the exact same thing. If I had a solid pre-season and was outstanding in back to back games for my national team I would be at a complete lost as to why I can barely get 10 minutes for my club team.

 

[nedved34]

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++


Udinese play very "beautifully" now? They sold their two most creative midfielders in the summer and their midfield this season is filled with hardworking all-arounders such as Obodo and Muntari. These players are not even near the class of Pizarro in terms of going forward.

They are still playing it good,I wonder if you watched the panaitinakos(bad spelling) match.

And when was the last time we lost to Udinese? Do you have any idea, Snoop?

ten matches ago.so what's the big deal.we are looking to the stats and papers now?so you think Udinese never change the last years?nice logic..

Fact of the matter is we played too defensively and could have even lost the match with our ineptness in attack and midfield. We were lucky to win and we are criticising Capello because the tactics yesterday just did not add up...three defensive midfielders with one player who did nothing but sit in front of the defense...Canoranesi sitting on the bench...Nedved playing on the right where he never performs...

well I thank God Capello is smart enough to play so,If you look at my first post in this thread,I was expecting an open match and a 3-3 draw that could happen if we played the way you wanted..anyway the point is,we took the 3 points no need for fantasies,Udinese is a strong side,and we beat them at home Period.

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by snoop ] ++

explained in the above post of mine,yeah sometimes we have to do it the ugly way.but we still were better than Udinese..

I don't know how you can say we were better than Udinese last night...far from it actually. Even your buddy Capello himself stated Udinese deserved a draw, at least.

and what about the first half,or it's not that important,we just look to the negative side?
I remember you were bashing Del piero,and praising Zlatan last year all the time,what happened?wrong policy with other members?

Wrong policy...what are you talking about? I do not show any favoritism towards our players and I try to look at things objectively. Last year Ibrahimovic was playing very well most of the time and performing much better than Del Piero. Now this year the tide has shifted and Del Piero is playing better than Ibrahimovic and in fact the latter has been poor thus far. Zlatan deserves the criticism he is recieving at the moment.

What did Zlatan really do in the first half anyway? All I remember is him being offsides at least four times and making only move to make himself stand out...not to mention all the bad passes. Why should we focus on 10% good when there is 90% bad to discuss? Del Piero recieved the bashing last year now it's Zlatan's turn....only fair.

what now?you mean I am a fool,I listen Capello's words and say it here?
Yes Zalayeta is good for Juve,he always did his Job when he was called,will Mutu have that patience and never complain?what if he does?does he worth it?

Zalayeta is indeed a good player for Juventus, however you have failed to give us any reasoning why Mutu would not be a good player for Juventus. Fact is we do not know until we try...you just can't blast him off without giving him a proper chance.

it's always like that no?when someone agrees with you,you say that
:dontcare:

Well of course, because I believe they gave some good points and I think they are RIGHT...not sure whats wrong with that...

 

[Stu]

++ [ originally posted by snoop ] ++

well I thank God Capello is smart enough to play so,If you look at my first post in this thread,I was expecting an open match and a 3-3 draw that could happen if we played the way you wanted..anyway the point is,we took the 3 points no need for fantasies,Udinese is a strong side,and we beat them at home Period.

Rubbish. How do you even know how Andy wanted us to play? If I've interpreted Andy's posts correctly he would have been glad to just have Camo in the team instead of Giannichedda. We were shit in midfield and still managed to win, with Camoranesi in the side we would have had a lot more control and useful possession in midfield, resulting in more chances and possibly more goals. The same exact system, without Vieira mind you, saw us keep cleansheets against Bayern and Milan last season so I don't understand why you think we would have been so much less secure in defence by dropping one of THREE DMs for a wide midfield player.

 

[nedved34]

++ [ originally posted by Stuart ] ++


I agree that Udinese are a good team and that the primary objective in any game is to win and we did that. I'm not bashing Capello or anything I just said that he made mistakes, which he did. It's possible to make mistakes as a coach and still win and that was the case yesterday. For you to say that Capello could not have been wrong because we won was silly. If you said that he did his job I could understand that because we left Udine with the three points but he did make mistakes, no doubt about that. I've accepted that free flowing attacking football isn't Cap's style but some tactical changes could have made us a lot more assertive and effective against Udinese.

Ok I say it He did his job if that will please you
so why still criticize him?wouldn't you prefer an ugly football with 3 points (sometimes),than beautifull atacking football that ends with a draw?plus he rested the other players too..

About the first point: Not everyone has Del Piero or Maldini's class when it comes to temperament on and off the pitch and I would have been angry with Zlatan myself. He wanted to do everything on his own in that match and quite often he seems more concerned about looking good or showing off than doing something useful for the team.

As for Mutu trying to send a message to Capello, I would do the exact same thing. If I had a solid pre-season and was outstanding in back to back games for my national team I would be at a complete lost as to why I can barely get 10 minutes for my club team.

In terms of personality,I agree with you Del piero has a better class to handle these things than the other two.but my point is we have to trouble makers in the team that will never get along well together,who would you choose?the one with great skills,or the average player?If Mutu was ok with his personality I would say keep him at bench ,that will not hurt anyone.but I don't think he will agree that,and he doesn't have the class to be a starter with Juve