Either that, or he really was good today. I honestly can't remember a single mistake by him in today's game, maybe you can refresh my memory a bit?
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[SERIE A] Lecce vs JUVENTUS (12/07/08) (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Mark
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Fine, we agree then!
Yes indeed it is painfully obvious that some of our defenders are not up to the task.
And there are some ppl, even within our helm, that would rather prefer to spend on fancy forwards, instead of improving our teams, were she really hurts!
Our defense, as a whole, including our entire midfield protecting them and some world class keeping to ensure that.
Is indeed working efficiently enough, to give the impression of a rolling team!
But on what expense?? (we are forced to sacrifice 3 positions in the midfield to protect them)
I see your point here and you are right! I dont argue that, i argue about their effectiveness individually. And the fact that they are lowering the quality standards within our team!
If we wont to improve our team, as a whole, we have to start from there!
Our team is only patched up and ready to go now, but we cannot build, a quality upon them! Because at the highest levels, we wont be able to sacrifice that much.
Like the match against Inter for ex. Our dynamic midfield couldnt cope like they used too. Our forward line could only do us good as they did.
It was up to the defenses, who is going to make a mistake or not.
Jose knew that and preferred not to risk, he placed a safe bet to his team defense over ours...
In a balanced game, our weakness are multiplied/exposed, our adversaries can easily spot them and exploit/abuse them!
If we wont to become a better team and compete with them, we have to eradicate them!!
This doesnt concerns me, figure this out with them...
Yes indeed it is painfully obvious that some of our defenders are not up to the task.
And there are some ppl, even within our helm, that would rather prefer to spend on fancy forwards, instead of improving our teams, were she really hurts!
Our defense, as a whole, including our entire midfield protecting them and some world class keeping to ensure that.
Is indeed working efficiently enough, to give the impression of a rolling team!
But on what expense?? (we are forced to sacrifice 3 positions in the midfield to protect them)
I see your point here and you are right! I dont argue that, i argue about their effectiveness individually. And the fact that they are lowering the quality standards within our team!
If we wont to improve our team, as a whole, we have to start from there!
Our team is only patched up and ready to go now, but we cannot build, a quality upon them! Because at the highest levels, we wont be able to sacrifice that much.
Like the match against Inter for ex. Our dynamic midfield couldnt cope like they used too. Our forward line could only do us good as they did.
It was up to the defenses, who is going to make a mistake or not.
Jose knew that and preferred not to risk, he placed a safe bet to his team defense over ours...
In a balanced game, our weakness are multiplied/exposed, our adversaries can easily spot them and exploit/abuse them!
If we wont to become a better team and compete with them, we have to eradicate them!!
This doesnt concerns me, figure this out with them...
Giovinco + De Cegile + Marchisio .. this is our future .. a wonderful game by the triade .. I'm not goin to comment about giovinco coz we all know his abilities .. Marchisio in particular played a very good match .. he passes the ball so nicely pirlo style .. check out his wonderful pass to De Cegile in the build up for Amauri's goal ..
Thats what I was trying to explain that virtu boy thing. He tried to make and turn it into a joke.
Offside traps doesn't always work with you and is pretty risky game. Not that I'm against it but I prefer not to play it when we're leading and rather have 7 or 8men in our penalty area blocking them all over specially when you have good defenders on air.
Not to mention also that oppositions always looking more threat and danger when they're down, thats unless we're playing in Sirilanka's 4th division.
I like it how virtual started his investigation with me asking me where I played and where I learned the things I've said above.
Offside traps doesn't always work with you and is pretty risky game. Not that I'm against it but I prefer not to play it when we're leading and rather have 7 or 8men in our penalty area blocking them all over specially when you have good defenders on air.
Not to mention also that oppositions always looking more threat and danger when they're down, thats unless we're playing in Sirilanka's 4th division.
I like it how virtual started his investigation with me asking me where I played and where I learned the things I've said above.
i never said that the offside trap is unfailable, but you can not change it (at least not if your whole tactic and formation is set up for this)... hell yeah, but we could just play with a sweeper ... that is even more secure after leading ... i see you learn nice things from playing football manager or watching sri lankas league games
i am to lazy to use the search function know, but everyone knows how ranieri got flamed when he switched to a more defensive tactic (or in your words "put 7 men in our box") once we took the lead. i remember things like "you can not sit back with that shitty defence of ours ... that is waiting to get the equaliser" and such stuff so don't try to apply your football manager knowledge in real life ... just name one top club that does use the offside trap regularly and then switches to old school hard man marking + hiding in your penalty box and hoping to hit a counter ... you won't find any team that does stop using the offside trap out of fear they could be ran over.
if what you say is true, then no game would end 3-0 or 2-0 because the losing team would always be "quicker" and push for the equaliser and thus i high score without conceding would only be possible for teams that do have a deadly counter attack with high finishing skills ... pretty strange that we do not have such teams in serie a . . .
perhaps you got your tactic knowledge from sri lankas 4th division, because it is surely not a tactic used in europes top leagues
the fact you even bother discussing with the immature likes of vinman tells enough, really
i am to lazy to use the search function know, but everyone knows how ranieri got flamed when he switched to a more defensive tactic (or in your words "put 7 men in our box") once we took the lead. i remember things like "you can not sit back with that shitty defence of ours ... that is waiting to get the equaliser" and such stuff so don't try to apply your football manager knowledge in real life ... just name one top club that does use the offside trap regularly and then switches to old school hard man marking + hiding in your penalty box and hoping to hit a counter ... you won't find any team that does stop using the offside trap out of fear they could be ran over.
if what you say is true, then no game would end 3-0 or 2-0 because the losing team would always be "quicker" and push for the equaliser and thus i high score without conceding would only be possible for teams that do have a deadly counter attack with high finishing skills ... pretty strange that we do not have such teams in serie a . . .
perhaps you got your tactic knowledge from sri lankas 4th division, because it is surely not a tactic used in europes top leagues
the fact you even bother discussing with the immature likes of vinman tells enough, really
Playing with a sweeper could be an option. But I wouldn't use that too. I would defend in this particular match same way Lecce defended in their first half considering injuries and the not too many options that we have on the bench.
Zone defending and hitting them on counter attacks would have been the most suitable thing to do.
Btw, I don't play Football Manager and I don't have it. So you may stop repeating this sentence and keep it for yourself.
It seems that I'm talking to the wall or mirror. Seriously.
Playing offside trap looks more clumsy and can make you loose all your 3points (NAPOLI) match probably knocks any of your stubborn doors?
But the % of conceding a goal playing/putting 7men defending in such a situation like the Lecce game is really low %.
I'm not asking Ranieri to play the defense zone for the entire 90min, but when you don't have too many options and when you're leading and when you're playing away the best option is to play it whether you like it or not.
And to answer your last line, Both Inter and Milan don't play the offside trap when they're leading, most of the times to be more correct. We can bring up their matches if you want. Just say it.
I'm sorry to disappoint you, I've been here for 5years now and I could tell that Vinman knows the game and reads the game much better than you. He could be harsh on Ranieri and most of our players but when it comes to tactics you should learn a thing or two from him.
Zone defending and hitting them on counter attacks would have been the most suitable thing to do.
Btw, I don't play Football Manager and I don't have it. So you may stop repeating this sentence and keep it for yourself.
It seems that I'm talking to the wall or mirror. Seriously.
Playing offside trap looks more clumsy and can make you loose all your 3points (NAPOLI) match probably knocks any of your stubborn doors?
But the % of conceding a goal playing/putting 7men defending in such a situation like the Lecce game is really low %.
I'm not asking Ranieri to play the defense zone for the entire 90min, but when you don't have too many options and when you're leading and when you're playing away the best option is to play it whether you like it or not.
And to answer your last line, Both Inter and Milan don't play the offside trap when they're leading, most of the times to be more correct. We can bring up their matches if you want. Just say it.
I'm sorry to disappoint you, I've been here for 5years now and I could tell that Vinman knows the game and reads the game much better than you. He could be harsh on Ranieri and most of our players but when it comes to tactics you should learn a thing or two from him.
Exactly, thank you.
Check Napoli's 2nd goal. Look at where our four defenders where standing.
They were miles and miles away from our penalty area. Fast legs such as Lavezzi and Hamsik can't be played offside trap.
I don't think we would have conceded that goal had we played normal zone defense.
Knezevic takes small part of the blame.
Check Napoli's 2nd goal. Look at where our four defenders where standing.
They were miles and miles away from our penalty area. Fast legs such as Lavezzi and Hamsik can't be played offside trap.
I don't think we would have conceded that goal had we played normal zone defense.
Knezevic takes small part of the blame.
just look at the inter game... they got through our offside traps a hundert times with LONG BALLS... because most of the time someone didn't get out... and the problem was we played the offside trap really high on the pitch and with a pace of ibra we were so lucky that he missed his 1 on 1's.
azzurri7 is right u can not afford that when u r leading in such games (espacially away from home)... there are games when u realise that your offside trap doesn't work. and with players like legro and chillini who r killers at 1 on 1 it is sometimes safer to play a zone. and countless times through out this season molinaro was at fault for the offside trap not to work
don't know if u ever have played as a cb... but belive me the offside trap is the hardest thing to do in football... it's enough to lose the focus just for a second and your game is lost. so only 1 of the 4 defenders has to be wrong for a second and u can concede...
azzurri7 is right u can not afford that when u r leading in such games (espacially away from home)... there are games when u realise that your offside trap doesn't work. and with players like legro and chillini who r killers at 1 on 1 it is sometimes safer to play a zone. and countless times through out this season molinaro was at fault for the offside trap not to work
don't know if u ever have played as a cb... but belive me the offside trap is the hardest thing to do in football... it's enough to lose the focus just for a second and your game is lost. so only 1 of the 4 defenders has to be wrong for a second and u can concede...
and i dont even refer to only this particular match, but the generalisations you made (like "opponent always stronger after being one goal down" and so on)
when i mentioned, we could play with a sweeper i was being sarcastic ...
too show that i feel that it is a bit to easy to say score one and then sit back ... as i already said ... it seems ranieri can not do anything right in the opinion of the board members here ... if he keeps on playing that way you say it is his fault and we had to sit back and try to counter attack ... if he choses to sit back and try to hit on the counter attack, people here will say "yeah, we were pretty lucky, because after we scored the opponent totally controlled the game and had all the posession"
as ahmed wrote ... you should not generalise every mistake to be due to the offside trap.
an individual error could lead to fail the offside trap, but so could an individual error in front of our goal lead to a player getting a shot from the box which is not less dangerous
i must admint, i don't really remember the situation with napolis goal right now
it is not so long ago we were praised for our offside trap that did help us create a very good winning streak (until the inter game), so what was good just a few weeks ago can not be totally crap few weeks later ...
the offside trap has its advantages, because you hold the play away from your own goal ant theoretically with fast players (chiellini and molinaro) you had even enough time to catch up until the attacker that sprung the offside trap is in the box... there already were such situations where the offside trap did not work but molinaro (clumsy as it might have looked) just distracted the striker enough for him to miss the target.
with your tactic sitting deep in the own half it is as error prone to goal attempts as the offside trap.
using your tactic the opponent will surely put most of his players in our side of the field ... thats ok ... then we have the sissoko and marchisio guarding the defense ... as already mentioned sissoko does run fast at opponents which leaves him outplayed quite easy if the opponent does have a good passive run skill. so with sissoko outplayed there is only marchisio to stop the player with the ball ... any loss of attention and focus leaves space for a one two and in the best case for us the opponent has the opportunity to shoot from the box ... the keeper cant catch the ball and punches it weak and because we sit so deep and there two strikers are already pretty near our goal they only have to be lucky to stand in the right position to tapp in ... it is not as if this situation did never happen to teams that do exactly that ... sitting back and relying on overcrowding the own box.
i think the possibility of this happening is perhaps slightly higher than someone that breaks the offside trap and is fast enough to slot in before one of our players can disturb him
they are not even using the offside trap half the time than we do ... they do it on occasion but not as defensive tactic ... and so they do not have to act against what they learned/studied in tactic training....
i doubt someone that is not even able to write and behave like an mature man can have the skill to analyze deeper football tactics,.
when i mentioned, we could play with a sweeper i was being sarcastic ...
too show that i feel that it is a bit to easy to say score one and then sit back ... as i already said ... it seems ranieri can not do anything right in the opinion of the board members here ... if he keeps on playing that way you say it is his fault and we had to sit back and try to counter attack ... if he choses to sit back and try to hit on the counter attack, people here will say "yeah, we were pretty lucky, because after we scored the opponent totally controlled the game and had all the posession"
as ahmed wrote ... you should not generalise every mistake to be due to the offside trap.
an individual error could lead to fail the offside trap, but so could an individual error in front of our goal lead to a player getting a shot from the box which is not less dangerous
i must admint, i don't really remember the situation with napolis goal right now
it is not so long ago we were praised for our offside trap that did help us create a very good winning streak (until the inter game), so what was good just a few weeks ago can not be totally crap few weeks later ...
the offside trap has its advantages, because you hold the play away from your own goal ant theoretically with fast players (chiellini and molinaro) you had even enough time to catch up until the attacker that sprung the offside trap is in the box... there already were such situations where the offside trap did not work but molinaro (clumsy as it might have looked) just distracted the striker enough for him to miss the target.
with your tactic sitting deep in the own half it is as error prone to goal attempts as the offside trap.
using your tactic the opponent will surely put most of his players in our side of the field ... thats ok ... then we have the sissoko and marchisio guarding the defense ... as already mentioned sissoko does run fast at opponents which leaves him outplayed quite easy if the opponent does have a good passive run skill. so with sissoko outplayed there is only marchisio to stop the player with the ball ... any loss of attention and focus leaves space for a one two and in the best case for us the opponent has the opportunity to shoot from the box ... the keeper cant catch the ball and punches it weak and because we sit so deep and there two strikers are already pretty near our goal they only have to be lucky to stand in the right position to tapp in ... it is not as if this situation did never happen to teams that do exactly that ... sitting back and relying on overcrowding the own box.
i think the possibility of this happening is perhaps slightly higher than someone that breaks the offside trap and is fast enough to slot in before one of our players can disturb him
they are not even using the offside trap half the time than we do ... they do it on occasion but not as defensive tactic ... and so they do not have to act against what they learned/studied in tactic training....
i doubt someone that is not even able to write and behave like an mature man can have the skill to analyze deeper football tactics,.