[SERIE A] Juventus - Palermo (5th October, 2008) (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter CORVETTE
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Chiellini only lost a couple of matches,
if he starts losing half a season, due to injuries every season, then yes, i will also start considering him a liability!
And yes i do value a lot for the reliability factor, the fact if a player is injury prone or not.
And therefore i dont value players like Chivu, who are constantly losing the largest of the year, as reliable solutions, despite his great skills and i was always against his transfer because of that!
You may as well try and put words on my mouth to distract attention and win some impression, because you know very well that, this was not what i was talking about, i never discredited our defense because of the injuries, but because of the overall quality of them, if our team was full of Chivus and Cordobas, then we would suffer much less, because they cant be all injured at the some time and some of those quality players would be available at a time. But we are not Inter, we dont have 3 rosters of quality players, we can easily make a roster of squad players with youngsters like Marchisio, Lanzafame, Giovinco, Criscito, Nocerino, De Ceglie, Palladino for depth and insurance for the times we face casualties.
BUT we also need to field a quality first rate team, full of quality and reliable players! I gave certain examples of some certain players, who are not reliable for variable reasons that include injury prones and other reasons and i never included someone like Chiellini, that was a blow bellow the belt.
Every player can be injured once every year for a period of time but some players, like Zebina and Chivu for ex are a sure bet for that and their overall value suffers a great deal because of this.
We only have a bunch of injury prone and mediocre quality defenders
and this is the reason of our overall quality of defense is that bad.
And even if all those mediocre quality players, become fit at once, we would only be able to field one of them at time and at the best case scenario, our defense will be always mediocre.
As for the future, we have no future with players that have no future and having so many useless squad players, only make it more difficult to upgrade our team, because of salary cap limitations.
The very reason we were forced to throw away from the window over 15mil on Andrade...
Tactically and strategically , we made the worst possible choice,
the only moment when this sacrifice was supposed to pay off was this one,
but it backfired a great deal instead...
We chose to bring Knezevic and Mellberg and loan away Criscito, instead of keeping him and bring in someone more reliable than Knezevic and even better than Mellberg.
Our chances with this quality CB, Chiellini, Criscito and Legro, would be better than our chances know, considering or not the occasional injury of Chiellini!
I never played fm08 and this is a silly joke thats has gone old already,
we could easily buy a quality CB and a quality AMF if we were not buying Amauri, Poulsen and if were getting rid of Andrade and Tiago at the right time...
if he starts losing half a season, due to injuries every season, then yes, i will also start considering him a liability!
And yes i do value a lot for the reliability factor, the fact if a player is injury prone or not.
And therefore i dont value players like Chivu, who are constantly losing the largest of the year, as reliable solutions, despite his great skills and i was always against his transfer because of that!
You may as well try and put words on my mouth to distract attention and win some impression, because you know very well that, this was not what i was talking about, i never discredited our defense because of the injuries, but because of the overall quality of them, if our team was full of Chivus and Cordobas, then we would suffer much less, because they cant be all injured at the some time and some of those quality players would be available at a time. But we are not Inter, we dont have 3 rosters of quality players, we can easily make a roster of squad players with youngsters like Marchisio, Lanzafame, Giovinco, Criscito, Nocerino, De Ceglie, Palladino for depth and insurance for the times we face casualties.
BUT we also need to field a quality first rate team, full of quality and reliable players! I gave certain examples of some certain players, who are not reliable for variable reasons that include injury prones and other reasons and i never included someone like Chiellini, that was a blow bellow the belt.
Every player can be injured once every year for a period of time but some players, like Zebina and Chivu for ex are a sure bet for that and their overall value suffers a great deal because of this.
We only have a bunch of injury prone and mediocre quality defenders
and this is the reason of our overall quality of defense is that bad.
And even if all those mediocre quality players, become fit at once, we would only be able to field one of them at time and at the best case scenario, our defense will be always mediocre.
As for the future, we have no future with players that have no future and having so many useless squad players, only make it more difficult to upgrade our team, because of salary cap limitations.
The very reason we were forced to throw away from the window over 15mil on Andrade...
Tactically and strategically , we made the worst possible choice,
the only moment when this sacrifice was supposed to pay off was this one,
but it backfired a great deal instead...
We chose to bring Knezevic and Mellberg and loan away Criscito, instead of keeping him and bring in someone more reliable than Knezevic and even better than Mellberg.
Our chances with this quality CB, Chiellini, Criscito and Legro, would be better than our chances know, considering or not the occasional injury of Chiellini!
I never played fm08 and this is a silly joke thats has gone old already,
we could easily buy a quality CB and a quality AMF if we were not buying Amauri, Poulsen and if were getting rid of Andrade and Tiago at the right time...
when you say chiellini is not injury prone than you have to say that legro isn't injury prone as well... and despite that both are inuried ... those things happen
you can not predict who is going to injure himself so letting the injuries aside i think the pair of chiellini with legro was pretty decent ... so we had our defenders
you're contradicting yourself ... now you say it would be ok if we stayed with chiellini, criscito, legro + 1 CB and a few month ago you said we defenitely need some one who would do less damage than criscito (which makes me think you agreed to loan him)
my point is that obviously you can get (if available) either 2 mediocre defenders for next to nothing (moneywise) or 1 good cb for over 10 m €.
right in this situation if we would have bought one quality CB and would not have mellberg and knezevic and we got the same amount ofinjuries in defense we would only have one natural centre back available !
is it better to play with one natural centre back and one player that isn't even a central defender or to play with two mediocre but natural central defenders ?
i think in most cases the natural defenders would not make so many mistakes as a not natural defender that has to play this position once a year would make.
there are to many "IFs" in that for my personal taste ... Tiago refused to go, so i don't see any benefit, letting andrade go or not would not have brought much many either (max the amount of wage he earns ...) and buying an AMF if we don't play with one in our formation is again not very sensible i guess.
if it was so easy to get a quality CB i guess we would have gotten one ... i expect the whole transfer market to be a bit more difficult than most of you here.
there is a pretty high possibility that our board know a thing or two about the general business and i strongly believe that no one of this forum would have done better in signing a centre back ... you always make it seem like transfers are just a piece of cake ...
there are many other clubs that are on the same level as juve right now(judging from a neutral point and not as fan) that struggled to get the players they needed...
we got no juve tradion bonus anymore ... players give a fuck about tradition and play for west ham because they give money we wont spend.
sorry for the low quality/hasty answer ... i gotta go to bed ... my alarm rings in 3 ours and i need sleep
you can not predict who is going to injure himself so letting the injuries aside i think the pair of chiellini with legro was pretty decent ... so we had our defenders
you're contradicting yourself ... now you say it would be ok if we stayed with chiellini, criscito, legro + 1 CB and a few month ago you said we defenitely need some one who would do less damage than criscito (which makes me think you agreed to loan him)
my point is that obviously you can get (if available) either 2 mediocre defenders for next to nothing (moneywise) or 1 good cb for over 10 m €.
right in this situation if we would have bought one quality CB and would not have mellberg and knezevic and we got the same amount ofinjuries in defense we would only have one natural centre back available !
is it better to play with one natural centre back and one player that isn't even a central defender or to play with two mediocre but natural central defenders ?
i think in most cases the natural defenders would not make so many mistakes as a not natural defender that has to play this position once a year would make.
there are to many "IFs" in that for my personal taste ... Tiago refused to go, so i don't see any benefit, letting andrade go or not would not have brought much many either (max the amount of wage he earns ...) and buying an AMF if we don't play with one in our formation is again not very sensible i guess.
if it was so easy to get a quality CB i guess we would have gotten one ... i expect the whole transfer market to be a bit more difficult than most of you here.
there is a pretty high possibility that our board know a thing or two about the general business and i strongly believe that no one of this forum would have done better in signing a centre back ... you always make it seem like transfers are just a piece of cake ...
there are many other clubs that are on the same level as juve right now(judging from a neutral point and not as fan) that struggled to get the players they needed...
we got no juve tradion bonus anymore ... players give a fuck about tradition and play for west ham because they give money we wont spend.
sorry for the low quality/hasty answer ... i gotta go to bed ... my alarm rings in 3 ours and i need sleep
Yes...Valencia (with all the players like Silve, Villa, Joaquin, Marchenna) played shit last year.. but the questions is how can they played shit last year and then Albiol - Marchenna become solid CB in Euro and Villa - Silva is a key in Spain attack..
then they become superior this season..i think it's because Emery and Aragones is different coaching style and tactics than Quique and Koeman
the coach can decide how the players perform on the pitch by the roles and tactic he gave to them.. also with the training schedules to improve players...
That's why i see changing coach will be the best and possible solution for us now.
then they become superior this season..i think it's because Emery and Aragones is different coaching style and tactics than Quique and Koeman
the coach can decide how the players perform on the pitch by the roles and tactic he gave to them.. also with the training schedules to improve players...
That's why i see changing coach will be the best and possible solution for us now.
If Legro isnt injury prone, it doesnt mean though, that he isnt mistake prone either,
so, a non injury prone player, isnt always a reliable one!
There is the difference there...
Injuries are not the only thing you may calculate in our team's status,
you seem to be obsessed with that, we will always find youngsters/nobodies to fill up our roster, there wont have be a time that we will lack material.
But even at their prime, mediocre players wont be able to help us enough, to make the difference!
I never said that about Criscito, i ve always believed in his talents and i always blamed CR for fielding just once and in the derby against Totti.
He is def not ready to become a starter right not and not like that!
IMO Criscito is as good as Knezevic and i would prefer him to keep him and get a quality starter, than a pack of useless CBs.
Since we got that pack and Criscito had minimal chances to play now,
then we did the right thing to loan him out and give him more to develop...
But to keep Andrade and bring Mellberg and Knezevic instead of a quality CB was our greatest mistake!
And we already can see that we are going to pay for it!
This exactly what we should do, get one quality CB for 10mil, instead of do mediocre one for nothing and invest less money in other departments we are stacked up, forward line for ex.
We cannot sacrifice starters to get more subs, thats stupid...
And i told you again, that we could get as many CBs, as we have now, without spending any money, players like Criscito.
Chiellini,Criscito,Legro,quality CB = Chiellini,Mellberg,Legro, Knezevic
in numerical numbers but the first group would actually help us to win smth once in a while...
Your numerical argument has been intercepted many times, i dont know whats that you dont understand, here i wrote it down with details,
i sincerely hope that helped ya!
I also hate risks and IFs and this is why i dont want us to keep risking with all those mediocre players, hoping that some of them will be proved good enough for the job.
Mediocre players have no future and if you use them as starter, are bound to make mistakes, the more you use them, the more chances you have for mistakes to appear.
It was only a matter of time for our team to start paying for those mistakes and here we are now, paying for them and regretting our choices!
We already took too many risks, it was time for some quality/reliable choices!
But we chose to repeat the same mistakes again and you are trying to produce excuses for our management.
No matter how you see it, our choices suck, even on your hypothetical injury hell and right now, on the real world, where we stand near the bottom of the table...
Yeah, thats a real issue, but somebody has to do smth about,
as long as we still have the old guard, we have an opportunity to keep it and set the basis for a new "champions" team.
We should harry up and use this generation, before it is vanished for ever.
This is why we should start bringing a couple of quality players per season, players that would form our future backbone and adding up our old guard,
would form a quality group of heroes, that would make us more competitve and with a good percentage of quality material.
Our owners should respect our history and fund just for once in their life time the necessary funds to bring us back, where we belong.
But they instead chose to turn us into a mid-table team, adding up mediocre players, with no future and as we can now see, with no "present" either...
I insist on quality material players, for many reasons, one of the most importants, is the stategic one, involving our future.
This is a reason, strong enough to sacrifice smth from our present position,
even if that means that we would have less option to field for the moment.
But we would we stand much better chances to win smth in future!
Now we sacrificed our future for NOTHING, those mediocre player, will never become champions and are not even capable of delivering any result now!
Alonso, VDV or even Diego instead of Almiron+Tiago+Poulsen
Zapata instead of Mellberg+Knezevic
And we would be already be stacked up with a crop of young and quality players, already forming a competitive group now and the basis for a future champions team tomorrow, only by adding a couple of quality players every year.
Now, we have to buy our selves a whole new team, when our old guard retires, if we only replace them, we will be as good as we are now, because they will still be too many mediocre players as the bulk of our backbone!
so, a non injury prone player, isnt always a reliable one!
There is the difference there...
Injuries are not the only thing you may calculate in our team's status,
you seem to be obsessed with that, we will always find youngsters/nobodies to fill up our roster, there wont have be a time that we will lack material.
But even at their prime, mediocre players wont be able to help us enough, to make the difference!
I never said that about Criscito, i ve always believed in his talents and i always blamed CR for fielding just once and in the derby against Totti.
He is def not ready to become a starter right not and not like that!
IMO Criscito is as good as Knezevic and i would prefer him to keep him and get a quality starter, than a pack of useless CBs.
Since we got that pack and Criscito had minimal chances to play now,
then we did the right thing to loan him out and give him more to develop...
But to keep Andrade and bring Mellberg and Knezevic instead of a quality CB was our greatest mistake!
And we already can see that we are going to pay for it!
This exactly what we should do, get one quality CB for 10mil, instead of do mediocre one for nothing and invest less money in other departments we are stacked up, forward line for ex.
We cannot sacrifice starters to get more subs, thats stupid...
And i told you again, that we could get as many CBs, as we have now, without spending any money, players like Criscito.
Chiellini,Criscito,Legro,quality CB = Chiellini,Mellberg,Legro, Knezevic
in numerical numbers but the first group would actually help us to win smth once in a while...
Your numerical argument has been intercepted many times, i dont know whats that you dont understand, here i wrote it down with details,
i sincerely hope that helped ya!
I also hate risks and IFs and this is why i dont want us to keep risking with all those mediocre players, hoping that some of them will be proved good enough for the job.
Mediocre players have no future and if you use them as starter, are bound to make mistakes, the more you use them, the more chances you have for mistakes to appear.
It was only a matter of time for our team to start paying for those mistakes and here we are now, paying for them and regretting our choices!
We already took too many risks, it was time for some quality/reliable choices!
But we chose to repeat the same mistakes again and you are trying to produce excuses for our management.
No matter how you see it, our choices suck, even on your hypothetical injury hell and right now, on the real world, where we stand near the bottom of the table...
Yeah, thats a real issue, but somebody has to do smth about,
as long as we still have the old guard, we have an opportunity to keep it and set the basis for a new "champions" team.
We should harry up and use this generation, before it is vanished for ever.
This is why we should start bringing a couple of quality players per season, players that would form our future backbone and adding up our old guard,
would form a quality group of heroes, that would make us more competitve and with a good percentage of quality material.
Our owners should respect our history and fund just for once in their life time the necessary funds to bring us back, where we belong.
But they instead chose to turn us into a mid-table team, adding up mediocre players, with no future and as we can now see, with no "present" either...
I insist on quality material players, for many reasons, one of the most importants, is the stategic one, involving our future.
This is a reason, strong enough to sacrifice smth from our present position,
even if that means that we would have less option to field for the moment.
But we would we stand much better chances to win smth in future!
Now we sacrificed our future for NOTHING, those mediocre player, will never become champions and are not even capable of delivering any result now!
Alonso, VDV or even Diego instead of Almiron+Tiago+Poulsen
Zapata instead of Mellberg+Knezevic
And we would be already be stacked up with a crop of young and quality players, already forming a competitive group now and the basis for a future champions team tomorrow, only by adding a couple of quality players every year.
Now, we have to buy our selves a whole new team, when our old guard retires, if we only replace them, we will be as good as we are now, because they will still be too many mediocre players as the bulk of our backbone!
we missed out on so many things... don't forget we throw away around 40 mil € for tiago almiron and Andrade... if we brought in zapata, new fullback, alonso(or vdv), amauri , mellberg and the 3 youngsters we would defenatly look better by now....
buffon
rb-zapata-chillini-lb/de ceglie
camo-sissoko-alonso-gio/neddy
amauri/dp - trez/iq
and still we would have players like mellberg legro zebina marchisio zannetti on th bench... and we weren't forced to pay more than we did with almiron tiago poulsen andrade
and i don't want to look at the future.... neddy camo dp trez and buffon won't play forever... with chillini gio and sissoko we have some great young players and maybe even the likes of marchisio deceglie or pasquato lanzafame and co can become juve players over the next few years but we must add some quality players now!
buffon
rb-zapata-chillini-lb/de ceglie
camo-sissoko-alonso-gio/neddy
amauri/dp - trez/iq
and still we would have players like mellberg legro zebina marchisio zannetti on th bench... and we weren't forced to pay more than we did with almiron tiago poulsen andrade
and i don't want to look at the future.... neddy camo dp trez and buffon won't play forever... with chillini gio and sissoko we have some great young players and maybe even the likes of marchisio deceglie or pasquato lanzafame and co can become juve players over the next few years but we must add some quality players now!
Lets clear up some facts.
Ranieri is no way a proper coach for Juve.
He had absolutely no guts for some brave moves and his tactics sucks.
Even bigger problem is our board.
Secco ,in my opinion is a worst sporting director-manager,Juve ever had in our whole history.
Blanc and Giggli are the same shit .They both do not know anything about football,anything.
Their transfer policy is a disaster.
You can not rely on a free transfers like Melberg,or cheap players like Knezevic and think that you can be competetive in Serie A,not to mention CL.
I can not stand the fact that,even one of these three idiots,plus Ranieri stays,we wont see any proper game in ages.We would become ,Bologna or Atalanta.
Tha game against Palermo was our worst game in maybe last 10 years.
Things have been changed right now.You cant compete with low level players,and especcially without proper idea what you are doing.
Ranieri will always be quiet and lifeless because he must suck Blancs and Gigglis dicks.These two creatures must defend him as a good choice because they bring him,and he was and is cheep so they are clean before the shareholders.Elkan knows of football like beggar about space engineering.Its a pity for a giant club like we are.
I repeat ,out with three idiots,plus,of course Ranieri.Othervise ,lets god help us.
Ranieri is no way a proper coach for Juve.
He had absolutely no guts for some brave moves and his tactics sucks.
Even bigger problem is our board.
Secco ,in my opinion is a worst sporting director-manager,Juve ever had in our whole history.
Blanc and Giggli are the same shit .They both do not know anything about football,anything.
Their transfer policy is a disaster.
You can not rely on a free transfers like Melberg,or cheap players like Knezevic and think that you can be competetive in Serie A,not to mention CL.
I can not stand the fact that,even one of these three idiots,plus Ranieri stays,we wont see any proper game in ages.We would become ,Bologna or Atalanta.
Tha game against Palermo was our worst game in maybe last 10 years.
Things have been changed right now.You cant compete with low level players,and especcially without proper idea what you are doing.
Ranieri will always be quiet and lifeless because he must suck Blancs and Gigglis dicks.These two creatures must defend him as a good choice because they bring him,and he was and is cheep so they are clean before the shareholders.Elkan knows of football like beggar about space engineering.Its a pity for a giant club like we are.
I repeat ,out with three idiots,plus,of course Ranieri.Othervise ,lets god help us.
you can only attract bigger crowds with better marketing...the way EPL sells its product is simply amazing...just see the way they produce their preview/review shows...they make a Hull vs. Stoke match look like a carnival...even La Liga has heeded this step and started to produce better shows...but Serie A still doesn't sell itself properly