Scudetto + Inter stay up, or 2nd and Inter relegated? (2 Viewers)

[RAVANELLI]

Yeah and our reputation and lost dollars won't come back if Inter are relegated, if we win Serie A they will (to an extent)

Our money won't be back yes.
But if inter gets relegated this will definitely improve our image and prove to the world what kind of hypocrite lying scum they are.
inter were the only 'big' team that was not affected by Calciopli, so them being relegated means so much.

 

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[ALC]

Moggi would never retire, this guy lives for football.
And you can't really be sure about what might have happened if Deschamps stayed.
We were still strong when we first came back from B because we still had some remaining great players in good form.
I think that even if Deschamps stayed, this would be inevitable.

Well, let's say Moggi never retired. How do you know our board wouldn't kick him out?

And as Salvo just said, what the fuck do we benefit from Inter being relegated? A week of joy? A couple weeks maybe? A title is worth so much more.

Anyways, it's not like either option is feasible, let's just agree to disagree.

 

[Nenz]

Moggi would never retire, this guy lives for football.
And you can't really be sure about what might have happened if Deschamps stayed.
We were still strong when we first came back from B because we still had some remaining great players in good form.
I think that even if Deschamps stayed, this would be inevitable.

Moggi had a deal in the works to go to Milan in 2006.

 

[RAVANELLI]

Well that doesn't refute the fact that we still won Serie B and came third in Serie A the following season. That is a recovery. You must have not been following Juve's market since 2006 because those 7th place finishes were a direct result of poor management not Calciopoli. It would be stupid to say that our 7th place finishes were a direct result of our relegation three years later when the first year following our relegation we came third. That doesn't make any sense. Poor management is clearly to blame. Your 'argument' about having the same management is just a hypothetical and actually isn't relevant. We did recover from Calciopoli with our heads held high and we were later brought down by mismanagement which is separate to the implications of our relegation. We could have hired a better GM than Secco. Hiring Secco was not a direct result of Calciopoli it was the decision by our management along with hiring and keeping Ranieri. So no its not invalid at all.

And why do you think we did bad on the market? because we're fuckin' broke! And why is that? oh yes, Calciopoli.
We had a great management before Calciopli, they were forced to leave after it. How on earth is that "not relevant"?

 

[RAVANELLI]

Moggi had a deal in the works to go to Milan in 2006.

So you are sure he would have gone to Milan?

 

[Salvo]

Our money won't be back yes.
But if inter gets relegated this will definitely improve our image and prove to the world what kind of hypocrite lying scum they are.
inter were the only 'big' team that was not affected by Calciopli, so them being relegated means so much.

Them rotting in the middle of the table while we take our rightful spot as champions will prove that.

 

[RAVANELLI]

Well, let's say Moggi never retired. How do you know our board wouldn't kick him out?

And as Salvo just said, what the fuck do we benefit from Inter being relegated? A week of joy? A couple weeks maybe? A title is worth so much more.

Anyways, it's not like either option is feasible, let's just agree to disagree.

If you can't see the benefit of inter being relegated, then I can't really explain it to you.

And yes, of course, it's a matter of opinion.

 

[RAVANELLI]

Them rotting in the middle of the table while we take our rightful spot as champions will prove that.

No it won't.

Middle of the table is not exactly Serie B, is it?

 

[Salvo]

But winning Serie A is more important, how won't that prove it?

 

[RAVANELLI]

But winning Serie A is more important, how won't that prove it?

I'm talking about proving that inter were as much involved in Calciopoli as we and the other punished teams did.
Them being punished too, proves it.
Us winning a title does not.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

Did I not just recount "what happened"? I think we saved ourselves from a whole lot of humiliation when we won Serie B and came back for a top 3 finish the next year. Its finally being dealt with in the courts. I'm really not that humiliated by it because for Inter, nothing would hurt more than trying to ruin us with a scandal of that proportion and fail instantly and miserably because over all we're superior to Inter even when we're compromised so harshly. In fact I'm proud of our time in Serie B and how we showed our strength and spirit to recover so well. Something that Inter would never have been capable of.

I mean as if it never happened because the season after Serie B we were top 3 in Serie A. We recovered extremely well as if we were never relegated and that recovery was marred by poor management post Calciopoli. Do I need to explain it any clearer for you?

Well said.

 

[Nenz]

And why do you think we did bad on the market? because we're fuckin' broke! And why is that? oh yes, Calciopoli.
We had a great management before Calciopli, they were forced to leave after it. How on earth is that "not relevant"?

Ah so you haven't been following our markets post Calciopoli. We spent more than enough money but on poor players thanks to Secco and Ranieri. As the influence of our old guard wore off in those season where we finished 7th it became increasingly obvious that our funds had been allocated in the wrong way.

Its not relevant because you're not looking at the direct cause and effect. The loss of that management group is not the direct cause of those poor seasons because we still achieved the Serie B title and 3rd place without them. Those positive results we could have built on but it was bad spending by Secco and Ranieri which brought us down not Calciopoli. Had we been smarter on the market there's no doubt that we could have been in a scudetto winning position much earlier and if that's true (which it is) then you can't say that our 7th place finishes were a direct result of Calciopoli because they could have been easily avoided despite our relegation.

 

[IliveForJuve]

Ah so you haven't been following our markets post Calciopoli. We spent more than enough money but on poor players thanks to Secco and Ranieri. As the influence of our old guard wore off in those season where we finished 7th it became increasingly obvious that our funds had been allocated in the wrong way.

Its not relevant because you're not looking at the direct cause and effect. The loss of that management group is not the direct cause of those poor seasons because we still achieved the Serie B title and 3rd place without them. Those positive results we could have built on but it was bad spending by Secco and Ranieri which brought us down not Calciopoli. Had we been smarter on the market there's no doubt that we could have been in a scudetto winning position much earlier and if that's true (which it is) then you can't say that our 7th place finishes were a direct result of Calciopoli because they could have been easily avoided despite our relegation.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/ed...dved-ibrahimovic-vs-tiago-poulsen-rinaudo-how

That article explains it well!

 

[RAVANELLI]

Ah so you haven't been following our markets post Calciopoli. We spent more than enough money but on poor players thanks to Secco and Ranieri. As the influence of our old guard wore off in those season where we finished 7th it became increasingly obvious that our funds had been allocated in the wrong way.

Its not relevant because you're not looking at the direct cause and effect. The loss of that management group is not the direct cause of those poor seasons because we still achieved the Serie B title and 3rd place without them. Those positive results we could have built on but it was bad spending by Secco and Ranieri which brought us down not Calciopoli. Had we been smarter on the market there's no doubt that we could have been in a scudetto winning position much earlier and if that's true (which it is) then you can't say that our 7th place finishes were a direct result of Calciopoli because they could have been easily avoided despite our relegation.

You just proved my point there.

If the old management was still in charge, then there would not have been any "bad spending".
It's all a chain of 'delayed' effects because of calciopoli.
Serie B and 3rd place aren't exactly what Juve used to aim for before this happened.
and like I said in my previous posts, we won B and came 3rd because we still had some great players left in good form.
A drop in the team's level was going to happen after those 2 seasons regardless.

And I have been following our market, the lack of financial liquidity lead to many failed negotiations.

 

[RAVANELLI]

http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/ed...dved-ibrahimovic-vs-tiago-poulsen-rinaudo-how

That article explains it well!

Yeah I've read that article before.
That's not my point.
My point is that Calciopli was indeed the reason that our good management left forcefully and caused all of this mess.
You're saying with the other guy that calcioploi had nothing to do with it. Come on!

 

[Nenz]

You just proved my point there.

If the old management was still in charge, then there would not have been any "bad spending".
It's all a chain of 'delayed' effects because of calciopoli.
Serie B and 3rd place aren't exactly what Juve used to aim for before this happened.
and like I said in my previous posts, we won B and came 3rd because we still had some great players left in good form.
A drop in the team's level was going to happen after those 2 seasons regardless.

And I have been following our market, the lack of financial liquidity lead to many failed negotiations.

They're indirect effects. The fact that we could achieve 3rd spot in the table in our first season back in Serie A goes to show that its not direct effects of Calciopoli that caused that. It was decisions to hire Secco and Ranieri but we could just as easily have hired more competent staff. We wouldn't have necessarily lost that much quality if it weren't for big spending on little talent. You say we were broke but we managed to spent over 40M on Melo and Diego alone in one summer and consequently came 7th.

What I'm saying is we could still have been relegated, hired different staff who made better decisions and we would have been in a scudetto winning position instead of coming 7th EVEN THOUGH WE WERE RELEGATED. Understand that? We could have very easily been back on our feet despite being relegated if it weren't for the poor decision making AFTER Serie B which was the cause of our 7th place finishes not Calciopoli.

Let me make it as clear as possible.

We get relegated --> we win Serie B under Deschamps --> Ranieri is hired --> Secco and Ranieri derail us.

But what could have happened despite calciopoli occurring...

We get relegated --> we hire a different GM --> win Serie B --> keep Deschamps or hire someone better --> our more competent GM along with our more competent manager makes the right decisions in the market and we are able to rebuild a competitive squad.

See that the outcome is different for either scenario but they both come from our relegation??

So obviously it was the hiring of incompetent staff that brought us down not Calciopoli directly because we could have easily avoided that crisis despite being relegated had we hired the right people. You know our staff prior to Calciopoli were not the only decent CEO's GMs and managers in the world. There's no reason why we couldn't have gotten someone other than Ranieri and Secco and made a better future for the club.

 

[Preet]

something gives me the impression that majority of the crowd in this poll were not deeply involved with juventus pre and during calcipoli

 

[Fake Melo]

As if you knew what football was before couple of months ago

 

[Cronios]

I don't get the glory hunter "insult". Because we want Juve to win, we're glory hunters? Is glory hunting not a bad thing anymore?

Glory hunters is a large part of our community that values more the wins of our club, just to boast around for that, rather than the actual love for the club it self.
It defines everyone who would overlook what they did to Juve, just for one odd title...

But above all they are small minded, because if Inter gets out of the picture like we did, our chances to start winning many more championships in the coming years, will dramatically increase. As the balance will be re-established, as it was before the fabricated scandal undid us.
Inter will take time to come back, will have to change ownership, lose many of their mercs, hire incompetent directors like we did and lose a great chunk of cash like we did, because of that incompetence.

Now with Moratti unchecked, their prestige unharmed and their influence multiplied, they can bounce back whenever they chose to and keep us out of titles for as long as they wish.
But many of us wont mind, as long as they gift us a title/decade...

 

[Itztli]

So your calling us glory hunters for wanting to see Juve back to winning ways. To hold a trophy that we haven't seen for 5 years. Supporting thought everything?





You know what, Cron. Suck a dick. You seem more pent up about inter than this team. I'm starting to wonder if your a fan at all?