Same Sex Marriage (13 Viewers)

[Zlatan]

Even if the Soviet authorities were morally bankrupt, which I am not saying, you can hardly say an entire nation lacks morals.

And, like I said, I wonder who died and made you the moral police.

And you didnt answer my question. What are morals?

 

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[Chxta]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++


Thats not the point, guns are just an example.

My bad, but I still don't get you.

 

[Chxta]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++
Even if the Soviet authorities were morally bankrupt, which I am not saying, you can hardly say an entire nation lacks morals.

And, like I said, I wonder who died and made you the moral police.

And you didnt answer my question. What are morals?

Try reading between the lines my man. I never said the whole nation, I said it is more bankrupt than most. Implying that the rate of moral bankruptcy there's much higher than anywhere else.

 

[Respaul]

out of interest... what makes russia 'morrally bankrupt' ?
and are you talking from experience (eg you have been and seen) or from what you read and see in the media?

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++


But then how about the detail that the majority of wars (and attrocities) throughout history are started in the name of one religion or another.


I would say theres a good case to say that without religion the world would be a better place

You're basing your argument on a few people who essentially kill in the name of God. No religion teaches people to kill in the name of God or the name of anyone; killing is against most, if not all religions. There are 'bad apples" everywhere that use religion as a justification to kill and proceed on with their hatred. They are murderers by blood, not because of religion. Real religious people follow their religion, and that would mean abiding by all laws set upon them by that religion. These people who kill for religious reasons are not part of that religion, as essentially they are just pushing it away.

Without religion these people would still kill because that's their nature, it's just that they would not be able to use religion as an excuse. Infact if there was no religion they would kill anyway because there would be no laws to stop them. No religion, no laws, no conduct. Saying the world would be a better place without it is just laughable. Only the most evil individuals kill and they don't care if they're associated with God, Allah, or Santa Claus.

 

[Zlatan]

I dont agree. You could then also argue that the 1960s and 70s US was morally bankrupt for attacking Vietnam and the citizens for supporting the war, yet they have a nation and constitution based on religion.


Morals are impossible to judge.

 

[Zlatan]

++ [ originally posted by Andy ] ++


You're basing your argument on a few people who essentially kill in the name of God. No religion teaches people to kill in the name of God or the name of anyone; killing is against most, if not all religions. There are 'bad apples" everywhere that use religion as a justification to kill and proceed on with their hatred. They are murderers by blood, not because of religion. Real religious people follow their religion, and that would mean abiding by all laws set on them by that religion. These people who kill for religious reasons are not part of that religion, as essentially they are just pushing it away.

Without religion these people would still kill because that's their nature, it's just that they would not be able to use religion as an excuse. Infact if there was no religion they would kill anyway because there would be no laws to stop them. No religion, no laws, no conduct. Saying the world would be a better place without it is just laughable. Only the most evil people kill and they don't care if they're associated with God, Allah, or Santa Claus.

That is if we were sure that there would be no laws if not for religion, which we of course cant determine. Let me ask you this: today there are, for example, laws about hacking, internet fraud, etc. None of those laws exist in the Bible, or any other religious book, yet they were created because of the need of the society for them. IMO the same think with all the laws, had there been no religion there would still be laws. IMO the creation of laws has less to do with religion and more to do with the appearance of organised states and societies.

 

[Chxta]

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++
out of interest... what makes russia 'morrally bankrupt' ?
and are you talking from experience (eg you have been and seen) or from what you read and see in the media?

Both. Was there last year, and I wasn't impressed. It is worse than any place I have been. Corruption, prostitution, crime (in the streets and in broad daylight)...

Russia's the only country that I've been to that lives up to its noteriety in the media, and doesn't even seem to care about it.

Does that answer your question?

 

[Zlatan]

++ [ originally posted by chxta ] ++


Both. Was there last year, and I wasn't impressed. It is worse than any place I have been. Corruption, prostitution, crime (in the streets and in broad daylight)...

Russia's the only country that I've been to that lives up to its noteriety in the media, and doesn't even seem to care about it.

Does that answer your question?

The US has all of that. Nigeria has all of that. Bosnia has all of that, as has France, England, Germany, Sweden, etc. Whats your point?

 

[Dan]

You choose your own morals, your own good and evil. The church shouldnt tell you what is right, think for yourself.

 

[Bjerknes]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++



That is if we were sure that there would be no laws if not for religion, which we of course cant determine. Let me ask you this: today there are, for example, laws about hacking, internet fraud, etc. None of those laws exist in the Bible, or any other religious book, yet they were created because of the need of the society for them. IMO the same think with all the laws, had there been no religion there would still be laws. IMO the creation of laws has less to do with religion and more to do with the appearance of organised states and societies.

If you are going to say we don't know of a tie between religion and law, how can you say the world would be a better place without religion? You aren't making much sense here Zlatan and there seems to be a double standard.

Laws stem from other laws Zlatan. There was no internet thousands of years ago.

 

[Chxta]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++
I dont agree. You could then also argue that the 1960s and 70s US was morally bankrupt for attacking Vietnam and the citizens for supporting the war, yet they have a nation and constitution based on religion.


Morals are impossible to judge.

My dad was in the US during the height of the Vietnam war, and he tells me that a lot of people didn't support the war.
I have had the priviledge (opportunity depending on how you want to look at it) to have gone to both countries.
I can state categorically that there's a lot of things that Americans would think twice, thrice or maybe more before doing, that the average Russian wouldn't even blink an eyelid for.

 

[Respaul]

++ [ originally posted by chxta ] ++


Both. Was there last year, and I wasn't impressed. It is worse than any place I have been. Corruption, prostitution, crime (in the streets and in broad daylight)...

Russia's the only country that I've been to that lives up to its noteriety in the media, and doesn't even seem to care about it.

Does that answer your question?

Well no... you didnt answer the important question only the footnote as to whether you have been there.which was jus me being curious

on a side note... on the couple of occasions i have had togo to russia i liked the place and the people. Definately not the worst place ive been

 

[Chxta]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++


The US has all of that. Nigeria has all of that. Bosnia has all of that, as has France, England, Germany, Sweden, etc. Whats your point?

I said... Russia's the only country that I've been to that lives up to its noteriety in the media, and doesn't even seem to care about it.


I didn't say that those behaviours aren't everywhere.

 

[Zlatan]

++ [ originally posted by chxta ] ++


My dad was in the US during the height of the Vietnam war, and he tells me that a lot of people didn't support the war.
I have had the priviledge (opportunity depending on how you want to look at it) to have gone to both countries.
I can state categorically that there's a lot of things that Americans would think twice, thrice or maybe more before doing, that the average Russian wouldn't even blink an eyelid for.

Like what?



There is no way you can categorize an entire nation.

 

[Chxta]

++ [ originally posted by Shadowfax ] ++


Well no... you didnt answer the important question only the footnote as to whether you have been there.which was jus me being curious

on a side note... on the couple of occasions i have had togo to russia i liked the place and the people.

Good for you. I try not to label a whole peoples as good or bad (I have said that much earlier in this thread). There are good Nigerians and there are bad Nigerians, just as there are good Muslims and there are bad Muslims.
My own view of the Russian people as a whole is that they are a defeated people, having lived under one form of police state (including this one) or the other for centuries.
However, the bad eggs in Russia IMO are more when you take them as a percentage of the total population than anywhere else.

And I lay the blame for that squarely on the door of the godless Soviet government.

BTW, the rest of Europe is headed in that general direction in a few years if they don't come back to God.

 

[Zlatan]

Oh please

 

[Chxta]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++



Like what?



There is no way you can categorize an entire nation.

You just don't get it do you?

 

[Zlatan]

++ [ originally posted by chxta ] ++


You just don't get it do you?

No I dont get it. You keep talking about how Soviets are morally bankrupt and how they would do something people in the west wouldnt, yet you never say what taht is and how you know that. Give me an example instead of just ranting in circles.

 

[Respaul]

++ [ originally posted by chxta ] ++



Good for you. I try not to label a whole peoples as good or bad (I have said that much earlier in this thread). There are good Nigerians and there are bad Nigerians, just as there are good Muslims and there are bad Muslims.
My own view of the Russian people as a whole is that they are a defeated people, having lived under one form of police state (including this one) or the other for centuries.
However, the bad eggs in Russia IMO are more when you take them as a percentage of the total population than anywhere else.

And I lay the blame for that squarely on the door of the godless Soviet government.

BTW, the rest of Europe is headed in that general direction in a few years if they don't come back to God.

So i take it... your not going to answer the question.... much easier if you jus say you wont answer than skirting around it

The question was simply... what makes russia morrally bankrupt?